Entering Time Machine glitch?

[KoolAid-Drink]

Question:

For those of you with Time Machine turned on, when you enter Time Machine from any folder (for example, your Documents folder), does the Finder window change to your Home folder, then enter Time Machine?

In Snow Leopard, Lion, and Mountain Lion, when I was in any folder, entering Time Machine while being in that folder would take me into Time Machine with that folder. With Mavericks, it always changes to my home folder then enters Time Machine without doing the folder "shrink" animation. I believe this is a bug.

Can someone else please test? To do so, go to any folder OTHER than your main home folder, then click the Time Machine icon (either on the Dock or menu bar) and see what happens. Let me know. Thanks!

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

Here's a video showing the behavior in Mavericks on my laptop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS-HogOqvpM&feature=youtu.be

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

Sorry, but bump. Anyone experiencing this? It's important to know.

Here's the same thing in Snow Leopard/Mountain Lion, working as supposed to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZCm8O6rKi0

 

[Ledgem]

No, it seems to be working as expected on my system. It does seem to shift things around a bit, as if it's selecting something and then de-selecting it, but it remains on the folder that I'm viewing.

 

[jhfenton]

It's not jumping folders on me, but I did find a problem.

1. Open a Finder window on Display 2.
2. Navigate to a random folder.
3. Enter Time Machine from the menu.
4. Time Machine opens on Display 1 in the random folder.
5. It is impossible to interact with the folder or any items in it. I can navigate backward and forward in time, but I can't select anything to restore.

If I have the Finder Window on Display 1 when I Enter Time Machine, it works fine.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

Thanks for the responses. I tried all the following steps:

-first install was a clean install, then backing up to my existing Time Machine backup (errors occurred, some backups not showing, etc - testing in Snow Leopard worked just fine, so it wasn't the TM backup)
-restored back to Mountain Lion, TM worked fine and normally. I then upgraded instead of doing a clean install; the same issue came back, but all backups showed
-tried creating a new account and then a new Time Machine backup (without any preexisting backups). Same issue.

So, it's either a Mavericks bug (but I doubt it because others don't seem to be experiencing the issue), or a corrupted download installer. I'm beginning to suspect a corrupted install, though; beachballs appear in a nanosecond then disappear every now and then for no reason, and a few system apps crash randomly. Maybe it was a corrupted download because of the volume of people downloading at the same time. The download did seem to happen a bit faster than I expected, and there were a few odd items showing in the Installer log. What do you think? I also checked my HD and did tests; nothing wrong with my hard drive, so that couldn't be the issue. Snow Leopard (when running from an external HD) worked flawlessly, and when downgrading to ML on the HD, worked just fine.



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No, it seems to be working as expected on my system. It does seem to shift things around a bit, as if it's selecting something and then de-selecting it, but it remains on the folder that I'm viewing.

Does the folder animation that usually occurs when entering time machine (as shown in my Snow Leopard video and applies to ML as well) happen, or is it quick and abrupt (window resizes without animating) like in my Mavericks video?

 

[Ledgem]

So, it's either a Mavericks bug (but I doubt it because others don't seem to be experiencing the issue), or a corrupted download installer. I'm beginning to suspect a corrupted install, though; beachballs appear in a nanosecond then disappear every now and then for no reason, and a few system apps crash randomly. Maybe it was a corrupted download because of the volume of people downloading at the same time. What do you think?

It could be a bug, but it could also be something with Mavericks needing to set up. For the first few hours after updating, my system was a bit more sluggish and misbehaved in certain ways compared with now, after it's had closer to a full day of uptime since installing Mavericks. My usual reminder for background process activity after an OS update is seeing Spotlight performing a full reindex, but it wasn't doing that. I'm using a SSD in my system, so I also assumed that any background processes would be over fairly quickly. That may have been a faulty assumption.

If you've given your system a lot of time after installing Mavericks then it's probably a bug of some sort with your setup. Otherwise, Mavericks has been out for about 36 hours, and it sounds like you've done three installs of it in that time span. I don't know why it takes so long to resolve these post-install issues, but give it some time.

For what it's worth, my Time Machine archive is from 10.8 and it hasn't had any issues with 10.9 after updating.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

It was actually two times that I installed Mavericks. I don't know if it's a post-install issue, but the Time Machine UI seems hardwired to change to the home folder, and there's additionally a spinning beachball every time the UI "changes" to the home folder, so I suspect there's something wrong with either Mavericks or the download/install.

I also had TM's from 10.8 which I used in Mavericks, had the issue. Tried a completely new backup on a different HD and under a different user account, still the same issue. It seems like a systemwide bug/corrupted install, IMHO.

Did you see my question above, ledgem (does your window animate smoothy going into Time Machine, or abruptly like mine)?

It could be a bug, but it could also be something with Mavericks needing to set up. For the first few hours after updating, my system was a bit more sluggish and misbehaved in certain ways compared with now, after it's had closer to a full day of uptime since installing Mavericks. My usual reminder for background process activity after an OS update is seeing Spotlight performing a full reindex, but it wasn't doing that. I'm using a SSD in my system, so I also assumed that any background processes would be over fairly quickly. That may have been a faulty assumption.

If you've given your system a lot of time after installing Mavericks then it's probably a bug of some sort with your setup. Otherwise, Mavericks has been out for about 36 hours, and it sounds like you've done three installs of it in that time span. I don't know why it takes so long to resolve these post-install issues, but give it some time.

For what it's worth, my Time Machine archive is from 10.8 and it hasn't had any issues with 10.9 after updating.

 

[jhfenton]

Have either of you been able to test my Enter Time Machine on Display 2 bug?

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

I don't have multiple displays wish I could help, though!

Have either of you been able to test my Enter Time Machine on Display 2 bug?

 

[jhfenton]

I don't have multiple displays wish I could help, though!

Thanks. When I enter Time Machine, it still blanks Display 2 and opens the Time Machine UI on Display 1. The TM UI works, and it displays the active Finder window on Display 1, but it's as if the Finder window is still really on Display 2 and not on Display 1. You can't interact with it on Display 1.

Edit: I'll report both my bug and UI complaint tonight. The bug is obviously the bigger problem, but it also shouldn't jump displays when you enter Time Machine. It should open on the display with the active Finder window.

 

[xgman]

Question:

For those of you with Time Machine turned on, when you enter Time Machine from any folder (for example, your Documents folder), does the Finder window change to your Home folder, then enter Time Machine?

In Snow Leopard, Lion, and Mountain Lion, when I was in any folder, entering Time Machine while being in that folder would take me into Time Machine with that folder. With Mavericks, it always changes to my home folder then enters Time Machine without doing the folder "shrink" animation. I believe this is a bug.

Can someone else please test? To do so, go to any folder OTHER than your main home folder, then click the Time Machine icon (either on the Dock or menu bar) and see what happens. Let me know. Thanks!

Yes. And as a result I had to format my TM drive, delete the TM plist and start over. Now it seems back on track. In fact this problem started around the time o0f the 10.8.5 update where I found exceptions in my plist that excluded some basic system folders like applications etc. I only noticed this when I did what you are explaining and TM jumped to my Home folder. I just got finished creating a new full TM backup with a clean plist and I'll have to check the Enter TM behavior a bit later on, but this time at least it has all the system folders backed up.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

The odd thing is, I did try using a new TM drive, to no avail - still had the same issue. Which TM plist did you delete, and where is it located?

This problem started completely with 10.9 for me; 10.8.5 was fine.

Yes. And as a result I had to format my TM drive, delete the TM plist and start over. Now it seems back on track. In fact this problem started around the time o0f the 10.8.5 update where I found exceptions in my plist that excluded some basic system folders like applications etc. I only noticed this when I did what you are explaining and TM jumped to my Home folder. I just got finished creating a new full TM backup with a clean plist and I'll have to check the Enter TM behavior a bit later on, but this time at least it has all the system folders backed up.

 

[xgman]

The odd thing is, I did try using a new TM drive, to no avail - still had the same issue. Which TM plist did you delete, and where is it located?

This problem started completely with 10.9 for me; 10.8.5 was fine.

In Lib/Preferences com.apple.Time Machine.plist

You have to empty trash, reboot after and make sure the TM drive is reselected after. If you have plisteditor, you can see what it is excluding. maybe also in something like Text Mangler.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

Thanks!

Did you have a chance to re-test the new backup and see if the same issue persists (changing to the home folder from another folder abruptly)?

I plan to do a fresh install of Mavericks if this problem seems to be specific to me, but if you still have the same problem even after doing the steps above, then it might be a Mavericks bug. Let me know as soon as you can

In Lib/Preferences com.apple.Time Machine.plist

You have to empty trash, reboot after and make sure the TM drive is reselected after. If you have plisteditor, you can see what it is excluding. maybe also in something like Text Mangler.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

Okay! So I've taken the advice of xgman - here's what I did:

a) Remove the backup drive from TM preferences (this will NOT remove backups)
b) Go to [root hard drive]/Library/Preferences, DELETE com.apple.TimeMachine.plist, and empty the trash. Restart your computer.
c) After restarting, re-setup Time Machine (as well as any exclusions you formerly had).

This step takes care of the "redirecting" to the Home Folder, but there are still plenty of weird issues in the UI. The first time I entered TM (the starfield view), it smoothly resized the folder and entered just fine, but subsequent times, it wasn't smooth (abrupt resizing of windows), BUT stayed in the same folder.

There was also a very weird issue when going back in time, sometimes the window view completely disappeared and went black. When I clicked "Cancel" (or pressed Escape), it wouldn't respond until I clicked again/pressed ESC again. Just VERY, VERY buggy and rough around the edges. Never had a problem with this in ML, and this backup IS from ML. I'm not sure if the same behavior would remain with new, Mavericks-only backups, though.

I'll share a video of what happens now when I'm finally able to upload it on YouTube.

In Lib/Preferences com.apple.Time Machine.plist

You have to empty trash, reboot after and make sure the TM drive is reselected after. If you have plisteditor, you can see what it is excluding. maybe also in something like Text Mangler.

 

[xgman]

I checked my reset Time Machine tonight and what happens is that say you have the main Macintosh Drive open in finder. As soon as you click on the TM app, the directory changes to the User Home Directory and opens that way in TM. Not sure why, but then you can change in TM to whatever directory and date you need. I don't know if this changes any of the restore functions but I still can restore any file to anywhere.

Now what is interesting is that any sub folder of my User Home folder will open that way and stick in TM, BUT any root Macintosh Drive or sub folder there except the USER folder will switch to the main User folder and then open that way in TM. I suspect some sort of security setting or new default behavior? All the Macintosh main drive stuff is still backed up by TM and visible if you change the directory once in TM though.

So the test for this is open your main root drive in fider and then press the Time Machine App and see if your folder changes to your USer Directory.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

Yeah, but this doesn't make sense, because it did work properly for me earlier - staying in the same folder throughout.

However, this behavior RECENTLY changed, once again. I guess I spoke too soon. There is absolutely no rhyme and reason behind this, and it's driving me mad!

Also, I strongly doubt this is a new security feature of Mavericks. One of the original selling points of Time Machine was that you could be in any folder and just go right back in time from that folder. That's ease of use. I still stick with my gut that this is a bug.

My video from earlier is FINALLY live! So, as you can see, it stayed in the same folder through TM, which was good! The abrupt "animation" is still there. There is another UI bug in TM; at about 1:22, notice how the windows just disappear completely, then come back up, sluggishly? This never happened in ML, and is NOT an indicator of a corrupt backup (it would always just show a black Finder window). This is really bad and user-unfriendly, confusing, and is most likely a bug.

http://vimeo.com/77745520
(YouTube was giving me a hard time, so had to use Vimeo)

This behavior above no longer occurs, however, it's since then gone back to just abruptly changing to the home folder. Annoying as heck and grating my nerves!

xgman, can you please test accessing Time Machine from another folder (not the root Macintosh HD folder) and see if it still diverts you to the home folder?

I checked my reset Time Machine tonight and what happens is that say you have the main Macintosh Drive open in finder. As soon as you click on the TM app, the directory changes to the User Home Directory and opens that way in TM. Not sure why, but then you can change in TM to whatever directory and date you need. I don't know if this changes any of the restore functions but I still can restore any file to anywhere.

Now what is interesting is that any sub folder of my User Home folder will open that way and stick in TM, BUT any root Macintosh Drive or sub folder there except the USER folder will switch to the main User folder and then open that way in TM. I suspect some sort of security setting or new default behavior? All the Macintosh main drive stuff is still backed up by TM and visible if you change the directory once in TM though.

So the test for this is open your main root drive in fider and then press the Time Machine App and see if your folder changes to your USer Directory.

 

[Ledgem]

It's not jumping folders on me, but I did find a problem.

1. Open a Finder window on Display 2.
2. Navigate to a random folder.
3. Enter Time Machine from the menu.
4. Time Machine opens on Display 1 in the random folder.
5. It is impossible to interact with the folder or any items in it. I can navigate backward and forward in time, but I can't select anything to restore.

If I have the Finder Window on Display 1 when I Enter Time Machine, it works fine.

I can confirm that this problem exists on my system, as well. Seems to be a bug. I'll report it to Apple Feedback, and I'd suggest that you do the same, if you haven't already.

Does the folder animation that usually occurs when entering time machine (as shown in my Snow Leopard video and applies to ML as well) happen, or is it quick and abrupt (window resizes without animating) like in my Mavericks video?

My folder animation is smooth, as it used to be. The only difference is that the view within the folder seems to shift slightly. To illustrate what I mean, I use the column layout. The folder that I open appears in the second or the three columns; the first column shows the directory containing the folder that I opened. When I enter Time Machine, things shift so that the folder that I have opened is moved into the first column. However, unlike what happens in your videos, I remain in the folder that I originally had open.

I don't use Time Machine often, so it's possible that this behavior was introduced some time in OS X 10.8. I don't remember seeing it before, though.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

That's so odd, my folder animation was smooth literally one time; the others, roughly and abruptly resizing (as you can see in the video).

Did you see the new video with the disappearing Finder windows?

My folder animation is smooth, as it used to be. The only difference is that the view within the folder seems to shift slightly. To illustrate what I mean, I use the column layout. The folder that I open appears in the second or the three columns; the first column shows the directory containing the folder that I opened. When I enter Time Machine, things shift so that the folder that I have opened is moved into the first column. However, unlike what happens in your videos, I remain in the folder that I originally had open.

I don't use Time Machine often, so it's possible that this behavior was introduced some time in OS X 10.8. I don't remember seeing it before, though.

 

[Ledgem]

That's so odd, my folder animation was smooth literally one time; the others, roughly and abruptly resizing (as you can see in the video).

Did you see the new video with the disappearing Finder windows?

I missed it; I watched it just now. I think your smoke detector needs a new battery Kidding aside, that's really weird behavior. My windows don't resize at all. I tried switching my folder view to icons, as you have it, but it didn't make a difference - my folders aren't resizing, and the view remains on the folder that I'm in. I have no idea why you're experiencing such weird issues. Do you have any Finder add-ons installed? Xtrafinder or anything like that?

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

Nope, no addons at all. Vanilla install. This happened both times I installed Mavericks twice (one clean, one upgrade), so I'm suspecting the downloaded installer is corrupt. Tonight, I'm gong to do a 100% fresh install AND fresh TM backup, no old remnants at all, and see if the issue still crops up. If so, it's Mavericks and a bug (not sure what triggers it) or (less likely) my hardware (doubtful, ad some others have roughly the same issue). If it disappears completely, it was my backup (doubtful, but anything's possible) or a corrupted download.

You've no idea how much headaches and frustration this has caused me, seriously.

I missed it; I watched it just now. I think your smoke detector needs a new battery Kidding aside, that's really weird behavior. My windows don't resize at all. I tried switching my folder view to icons, as you have it, but it didn't make a difference - my folders aren't resizing, and the view remains on the folder that I'm in. I have no idea why you're experiencing such weird issues. Do you have any Finder add-ons installed? Xtrafinder or anything like that?

 

[jhfenton]

I can confirm that this problem exists on my system, as well. Seems to be a bug. I'll report it to Apple Feedback, and I'd suggest that you do the same, if you haven't already.

Thanks. It's nice to have the confirmation. I submitted a bug report through the developer bug reporter.

 

[xgman]

Kool-aid yes, even if I just open the Users folder (not my user) it changes. But inside my user folder I can change to anything and it DOES stick, so that's why I suspect some sort of overall permissions thing or something? Of course once in TM, I can change and access all the root folders.

By the way, when exiting TM I can hit the back icon on Finder and the window returns to the root drive where I had it.

On the other hand do a hand full of people NOT have the above described Root HD folder TM issue?

EDIT: I just checked and all 3 of my recently upgraded to Mavericks imacs have this same behavior. I'm pretty sure it must be by design to keep dummies from restoring the wrong file at first try.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

Yet another update!

I decided to do a pristine, fresh install (using a NEW download, not the original download, to rule out any corruption) from scratch AND a fresh new TM backup (my backups weren't that old, anyway, and didn't contain anything important I couldn't re-download). After the first backup, the folder "animation" abruptly resized, just like before, but stayed on the same folder. After subsequent backups, along with using another TM disk (that was also empty, I use two HD's to be safe), entering TM went back to entering in the Home Folder, despite being in another folder.

I have came to the conclusion that this is a bug, and most likely is not by design. Here's why:

a) The folder animation that gracefully resized the Finder window is gone. (some of you may not be able to reproduce this; I believe it only happens on smaller laptops, and mine is a MBP 13")

b) When originally setting up TM, it stayed in the same folder and did not go to the Home folder. If this was truly by design, it would do that from the beginning (i.e., it stayed in the same folder when I did my first backup), and there may be notice to the user (as, again, one of the selling points of TM in 2007 was the ability to go back in time from any folder; and this has been the expected behavior in 10.8 and previous iterations of OS X)

I need a favor. Someone who has a dev. account here (I don't) - can you pretty please show Apple the videos in this thread, as well as explaining the behavior to them (you can copy and paste important tidbits from this thread)? I will also do my part in reporting this via AppleCare and asking to escalate this to an engineer, but I also would like someone with a developer account to report this internally. The more this is reported, the better chances we have for a fix and/or even clarification if this is new, expected behavior.

On a side note: Mavericks seem a bit better on this install. Random beachball spinning still occur, but MUCH less frequently (so far), and the system just seems overall more stable. Airport Utility (which I use for the new AC Extreme we have in our house) is very buggy and crashes frequently, but that's isolated to Airport Utility, it seems. I've concluded that most, if not all, bugs and UI/glitches I'm seeing, is just the reality of a 10.x.0 release, and hopefully will be ironed out by 10.9.1/2.

EDIT: I just checked and all 3 of my recently upgraded to Mavericks imacs have this same behavior. I'm pretty sure it must be by design to keep dummies from restoring the wrong file at first try.