Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

donleon

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 30, 2020
27
17
Florida, USA
Hello friends.

I'm using a 16gb 2020 13" MBP 4-port edition. I've attached screenshots of my current memory usage.

I'm in the return period and I'm seriously wondering...

Should I upgrade to 32gb?

Even when it's using swap, it's still crispy, I don't seem to notice. I've pushed swap up to 5gs after a few days without restarting.

Haven't seen pressure get yellow at all.

Main workflow is a lot of Chrome, some Youtube, + zoom, slack, trello, spotify, messages.

Seeking to keep this machine for ~3 years. Will be my main machine.

TIA for your thoughts.
 

Attachments

  • average-2days.png
    average-2days.png
    20.1 KB · Views: 291
  • average-high.png
    average-high.png
    17.5 KB · Views: 253
  • baseline-onStartUp.png
    baseline-onStartUp.png
    94.6 KB · Views: 215
I would say 16 is perfectly fine for you. I think you’d see very limited results going to 32, most of it being entirely wasted now and in the future. Could also always turn to Safari and reduce the resource usage ;) (Not actually suggesting you switch - use what ever You prefer - just being cheeky)
 
I vote keep the 16 GB unless you just have money buring a hole in your pocket. It won't make it any faster. I think Firefox is better than Safari and way better than Chrome. Chrome is a terrible memory hog but even with that you'll be fine with 16GB
 
This is handled with 8gb of RAM easily. So you will be fine with 16gb.
Not sure about "easily". A lot of apps today are Electron-based. They're like running a Chrome browser inside so they use a ton of RAM.

I think 16GB should be minimum nowadays.

32GB is really ideal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: donleon
Apple selling 8gb ram on base of air, pro and Mac mini they must think it is ok for a lot of folks?
 
Just restart Chrome from time to time. Chrome just seems to be nuts with RAM. I switched from Chrome to Brave for a few things because Chrome went to 12 GB of RAM running iCloud Notes, Reminders and Calender. They normally take about 1.5 GB but Chrome just started going nuts on me.

I use Firefox for most web stuff and there's a setting to increase or decrease RAM use and I have it on wide-open but I set it to use less RAM on systems with less RAM.
 
  • Like
Reactions: donleon
This is handled with 8gb of RAM easily. So you will be fine with 16gb.
I just upgraded from 8gb and it in no way cut it. The computer starts up with +5gb of RAM in use. Even if I don't use Chrome this is insufficient the moment I open one youtube video and have my other main apps open.
 
16GB is just fine.
Don't buy into the moar RAM frenzy.
If you would need 32 you would know it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: donleon
Having ridiculous amounts of cheap RAM is great. Only downside is Windows. One potential fix would be to use the Windows system as a server with VNC or Remote Desktop from the Mac into it. That way, memory intensive stuff would run on the server and native macOS stuff would run natively. It's nice to have a cloud at home.

Annotation 2020-06-05 120247.png
 
I think you're good. The system is designed to use available ram. If you had more ram, the ram usage would increase only because it's available and you likely won't notice any performance improvement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: donleon and Patcell
Why not get the answer from the horse's mouth? Apple says that if the pressure is red, that's the best indication that you need more ram. If it's green I think you're fine. For three more years, you're definitely fine. I'm using 16GB right now and with the super fast swapping on the internal drive I can't imagine why I'd need 32.
 
  • Like
Reactions: donleon
with the super fast swapping on the internal drive I can't imagine why I'd need 32.
Swapping on SSD is still not that great. SSD speeds are tremendous for sequential read/write of the single big unit until the buffer fills up. In other words, if you have single file of 4k blu ray Movie in single huge file of 10GB, then it will fly fast.
But if you have 1000 MP3 songs each 10Mb, then it will be very slow, especially when compared to Win counterparts.
But since RAM Swapping takes place only with old/unused data, then you will not feel lags anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: donleon
As far as I understand, looking at pageful usage on macOS doesn't tell the whole story... MacBooks will always page out to disk after being asleep for a certain amount of time so it docent have to keep the RAM powered. Anecdotally, I alway show a couple gigabytes of SSD reserved for page-file after leaving my computer asleep overnight. Regardless of what I left running.

As established already, looking a RAM used is a very poor indicator as macOS will alway attempt to use all available memory resources. Mostly to cache frequently used applications or files...
 
Looks like you would do fine with the 16GB system. You seem to be very little swapping. And since the pressure graph is green you know the rate of that swapping is low. Seems like MacOS is seeing plenty of free memory which it can allocate to processes.

You application list seems like just a bunch of web pages, so Chrome is going to manage that as much as the OS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: donleon and Patcell
@jerryk @casperes1996 @senttoschool @russell_314 @Grohowiak

Question for you all: What does having 32gs open the door to, outside of my current workflow, that having 16gs limits? Stated differently, What could I do with 32gs of memory that I can't do with 16gs?

I don't know that it makes that much of a difference in what you are able to do as you can always page. What 32 GB gives you is better performance if you need the memory as your system avoids most paging.
 
  • Like
Reactions: donleon
Question for you all: What does having 32gs open the door to, outside of my current workflow, that having 16gs limits? Stated differently, What could I do with 32gs of memory that I can't do with 16gs?

I mean the simple an slightly annoying answer is "Have more things in RAM".

Up to a point the argument is that you can use more RAM to keep more programs open at a time. I say up to a point because if you have 128GB of RAM and your main usage for that is to keep apps open, I struggle to think how you manage that many open programs, not to mention why.

After that point we need to look at how much RAM an individual app might consume. - There are videos on YouTube like "How many Chrome tabs before we fill 1TB of RAM", and that's a bit of fun but it's not realistic work.

To really get to a point where you're putting 32GB or more to use, you probably need to look at people running virtual machine; For example if you're developing cross platform software you could have a VM ready to run tests on another platform to make sure the code behaves well. Thus, you'd effectively need the memory for two computers.

We could also look to professional photography work with huge images. A camera might take a photo at 30 million pixels. A photographer might compose 7 pictures like that together into a single working file, and add individual layers of effects and such. And in addition to keeping it all in memory there's also the back buffer for undoing and all sorts.

In general, multimedia work can be quite hefty on all system resources, and photographers especially consume RAM more than any other system resource, though they'd probably also generally not go beyond 32 yet, but for some professionals, 16 might give some additional delays 32 wouldn't.

Could also have a workflow where having a RAMDisk could benefit, i.e. using some memory as a disk in Finder (all data would be gone on shutdowns or power drops) to have really fast data read/write for a scratch disk.

Using the iOS Simulator or the Android QEMU emulator with Xcode or Android Studio can also eat up memory, effectively the virtual machine argument again; I mostly do fine with 16GB for programming, but I can certainly see larger codebases where 32 could be beneficial.

And then of course there's processing of large amounts of data for scientific work where you can easily go to TB.

Some heavy users of Excel can even push Gigabytes of RAM on spreadsheets

Music production is also a big one; But again we're more in the professional or heavy prosumer space than the hobbyist. You can plug a guitar or keyboard into GarageBand perfectly fine with 16GB, but if you're running many plugins and effects through thousands of tracks, more memory gives a massive benefit.

With some exceptions RAM is one of those things where if you don't have enough, things slow down tremendously, but once you have enough, adding more doesn't really make a difference. - Now there are features in macOS like RAM caching that means you can still get small benefits from having a bit more than you need, but yeah.

It's often one of those "You know if you need it" things.
 
I mean the simple an slightly annoying answer is "Have more things in RAM".

Up to a point the argument is that you can use more RAM to keep more programs open at a time. I say up to a point because if you have 128GB of RAM and your main usage for that is to keep apps open, I struggle to think how you manage that many open programs, not to mention why.

After that point we need to look at how much RAM an individual app might consume. - There are videos on YouTube like "How many Chrome tabs before we fill 1TB of RAM", and that's a bit of fun but it's not realistic work.

To really get to a point where you're putting 32GB or more to use, you probably need to look at people running virtual machine; For example if you're developing cross platform software you could have a VM ready to run tests on another platform to make sure the code behaves well. Thus, you'd effectively need the memory for two computers.

We could also look to professional photography work with huge images. A camera might take a photo at 30 million pixels. A photographer might compose 7 pictures like that together into a single working file, and add individual layers of effects and such. And in addition to keeping it all in memory there's also the back buffer for undoing and all sorts.

In general, multimedia work can be quite hefty on all system resources, and photographers especially consume RAM more than any other system resource, though they'd probably also generally not go beyond 32 yet, but for some professionals, 16 might give some additional delays 32 wouldn't.

Could also have a workflow where having a RAMDisk could benefit, i.e. using some memory as a disk in Finder (all data would be gone on shutdowns or power drops) to have really fast data read/write for a scratch disk.

Using the iOS Simulator or the Android QEMU emulator with Xcode or Android Studio can also eat up memory, effectively the virtual machine argument again; I mostly do fine with 16GB for programming, but I can certainly see larger codebases where 32 could be beneficial.

And then of course there's processing of large amounts of data for scientific work where you can easily go to TB.

Some heavy users of Excel can even push Gigabytes of RAM on spreadsheets

Music production is also a big one; But again we're more in the professional or heavy prosumer space than the hobbyist. You can plug a guitar or keyboard into GarageBand perfectly fine with 16GB, but if you're running many plugins and effects through thousands of tracks, more memory gives a massive benefit.

With some exceptions RAM is one of those things where if you don't have enough, things slow down tremendously, but once you have enough, adding more doesn't really make a difference. - Now there are features in macOS like RAM caching that means you can still get small benefits from having a bit more than you need, but yeah.

It's often one of those "You know if you need it" things.
This is a great explanation of the kinds of things that can make use of a lot of RAM. Thanks! I always learn something reading these threads.
 
What could I do with 32gs of memory that I can't do with 16gs?
You already using 11GB at maximum according to you "High Usage" screenshot. You still have a headroom of 5Gb.
Also keep in mind that you are using 11Gb at high just because Mac OS doesn't doing active RAM management, because it has plenty, so it doesn't feel the need to compress the things.
Think of it as your sofa for 3 person. The main purpose of the regular sofa is to accommodate 3 sitting persons. Surely you could lay on your sofa and no place left for other people, but then also you could stand and take sitting position when needed. Your 11gb of ram usage is that your apps are laying on 3 person sofa alone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: donleon and Patcell
As far as RAM goes, I always try and perform a stress test. Go about your normal day and open as many apps you would normally use. Open a few tabs, some split view look.
 
  • Like
Reactions: donleon
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.