17" PowerBook G4 NVRAM Battery Question

[pl1984]

In the "Club 17" thread I posted my acquisition of a 1.5GHz 17" PowerBook G4 system. Upon booting up it displayed a message that the date and time were incorrect and needed to be set. This is typically the result of a dead NVRAM battery so I ordered a new one. The part I ordered is supposed to be new and not a pull from a system.

I installed it this morning, started the system, set the date and time, and then restarted the system. To which I was greeted with an incorrect date and time message. I am leaving the system on for a little while to see if there is any "conditioning" that can be done for this situation but I feel this is a futile effort.

My question is: Can there be another issue which is causing the loss of date and time? Aside from having to reset the SMC upon restart (which I believe is related to the NVRAM battery) everything is working fine. USB drives into the right hand USB port appear on the desktop so it's unlikely I did not secure the connector correctly.

My guess is that this new NVRAM assembly isn't actually new. To lend credence to this theory there was a spot on the black, outer cover which suggested it may have been used. I wrote it off as maybe something from being in storage all these years but now I'm thinking it may be an indication of a used part.

I've learned that just because something is new doesn't mean it cannot be the problem. Since this was an Ebay purchase I'm thinking of reaching out to the seller about the issue. However I cannot be certain the part I received is either used or in non-operating condition. Is there anything else I can check?

 

[eyoungren]

Try resetting PRAM.

Also, for PowerPC Macs it's a PMU reset, not SMC. SMC reset would indicate an Intel Mac and the process may be different.

I will lay out the process here for a PMU reset on a 17" PB G4, just for the sake of anyone who may be looking for this sort of thing.

1. Power down.
2. Remove battery.
3. Remove power cable.
4. Press and hold power button for no less than 5 seconds.
5. Replace battery.
6. Plug in power cable.
7. Press power.

You can check that an actual PMU reset occured if you hold down the V key (for Verbose) when the Mac bongs. Somewhere before the login screen it will say something to the effect of Power Management reset, reason 'X'.

Hope some of that helps.

 

[pl1984]

Thank you for the information Eric. Unfortunately neither seems to have resolved the issue. Everything is as it was before.

Regarding calling it an SMC I was advised, in the Club 17 thread, to hold down shift+control+option+power button. When I looked up this key combination I came across an Apple article which stated holding down this key sequence resets the SMC. Since the system would then start up after performing this sequence I assumed I was resetting the SMC. However your instructions also work. At least to get the system restarted again.

I am unable to see the verbose text on the screen as holding down the v key upon start doesn't do anything differently. Something else I need to look into (I did verify the v key works in the OS). I do not have the main battery for the system, could that be a factor? I am holding off buying one until I can get the date / time issue resolved. I figured replacing the NVRAM battery would do that but here I am.

Any other suggestions?

Edit: I see it's command-v

 

[eyoungren]

Thank you for the information Eric. Unfortunately neither seems to have resolved the issue. Everything is as it was before.

Regarding calling it an SMC I was advised, in the Club 17 thread, to hold down shift+control+option+power button. When I looked up this key combination I came across an Apple article which stated holding down this key sequence resets the SMC. Since the system would then start up after performing this sequence I assumed I was resetting the SMC. However your instructions also work. At least to get the system restarted again.

I am unable to see the verbose text on the screen as holding down the v key upon start doesn't do anything differently. Something else I need to look into (I did verify the v key works in the OS). I do not have the main battery for the system, could that be a factor? I am holding off buying one until I can get the date / time issue resolved. I figured replacing the NVRAM battery would do that but here I am.

Any other suggestions?

Try OPTN+V or CMD+V.

I usually get this confused on the key combination so I just set my Macs to boot verbose natively.

Other than a PRAM reset that's all I can suggest.

I saw the statement about the reset in the 17 thread, but didn't comment simply because I'm not all knowing (wish I were).

But my understanding is that the process I described above is the correct one for a 17" PowerBook. But of course, I may be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time!

 

[benwild_33]

Is your main battery functional? I just make sure to fully charge that before I unplug my Powerbook and that usually ensures it remembers the time for a few weeks of being powered down. I've looked for replacements too but have never had any luck.

 

[DouglasCarroll]

Have you checked the pram battery with a multimeter to see if it’s got voltage?

 

[pl1984]

Have you checked the pram battery with a multimeter to see if it’s got voltage?

That was something I had considered but didn't know how to do. Then I decided to take a look at the old NVRAM battery to see how I could do it. In one of those head slap moments it's very easy. The plastic covering is very easy to remove and it reveals two batteries wired in parallel. The voltage specification for them is 3.7 volts and I measured 2.7 volts on the one I removed. It looks as if I'll now have to pull the laptop apart to measure the voltage of the one I just installed.
[doublepost=1515013411][/doublepost]

Is your main battery functional? I just make sure to fully charge that before I unplug my Powerbook and that usually ensures it remembers the time for a few weeks of being powered down. I've looked for replacements too but have never had any luck.

I do not have a main battery for it. If I can resolve the booting and clock issue I'll buy one. Until then I am holding off in the event I never solve that problem.
[doublepost=1515013445][/doublepost]

Try OPTN+V or CMD+V.

I usually get this confused on the key combination so I just set my Macs to boot verbose natively.

Other than a PRAM reset that's all I can suggest.

I saw the statement about the reset in the 17 thread, but didn't comment simply because I'm not all knowing (wish I were).

But my understanding is that the process I described above is the correct one for a 17" PowerBook. But of course, I may be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time!

From my observation you're a wealth of information so I appreciate your input.
[doublepost=1515014282][/doublepost]Well, I have my answer. Voltage reading of the "new" (recall this is supposed to be a brand new) NVRAM battery is a whopping 120 mV. It's almost entirely dead. Off to contact the seller.

 

[DouglasCarroll]

Good deal. I check batteries all the time with my multimeter to diagnose problems. This is an easy fix!

 

[CooperBox]

An interesting post.
I had a 15" Alu 1.67GHz PBook open today to troubleshoot a minor issue with the lid open/close magnetic latch, and having just previously read this thread thought I'd check the PRAM battery whilst it was still open.
Unlike your 17" which has two Panasonic CGL2430 cells linked together, mine has the single LP302030-PCB-LD Lithium Polymer battery.


The PRAM assy is attached to the top r/h side of the optical drive with double-sided adhesive tape. (A useful tip is to draw around the edges with a pencil to ensure that on re-assembly it is attached to the same profile). I found out the hard way when I first attempted this a year ago, placing it 'approximately' which makes refitment of the keyboard difficult as there is an exact profile on the keyboard underside which must line up.

Unwrapping the tin foil reveals the PRAM board assy 820-1819-A



Here the single, flat, nominal 3.7v LP302030-PCM-LD Lithium Polymer battery was disconnected, tested and found with a very healthy 3.8v.



For info, HERE is an interesting link for info on both 15" & 17" Alu PBook batteries. I have once ordered TIBook PRAM batteries from this source with no problems. Had I needed one of these (or LP302030-PCB-LD replacement?) I note that there is currently nil stock - maybe not surprising, as after some research I see they are available from one manufacturer with min order of 500. Another internet seller appears to have these available without the 2-pin connector.

Fwiw, this Powerbook5,8 is ex 'Lastic' - who will be pleased to hear that it still gets t.l.c. and since purchase has had an SSD installed, and stills performs perfectly.

 

[pl1984]

The battery I purchased, and the one removed from the system, specifically states it's for a 1.5GHz, 17" PowerBook. I wonder if the 1.67GHz, 17" PowerBook uses a different NVRAM battery.

Good news is the seller is sending me another battery.

 

[CooperBox]

The battery I purchased, and the one removed from the system, specifically states it's for a 1.5GHz, 17" PowerBook. I wonder if the 1.67GHz, 17" PowerBook uses a different NVRAM battery.

Good news is the seller is sending me another battery.

From what I see the battery is the same on all 17" Powerbooks irrespective of GHz specs. And I note that it's hidden below the optical drive - unlike the 15" model I described above.
Glad to hear you're getting a replacement from the seller. If and when confirmed ok, would you mind sharing the link to that seller, as these PRAM batteries are getting difficult to find, and could ultimately assist other similar PBook owners.

 

[DouglasCarroll]

These are easy to find, I got mine here...


https://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer Technology/PRAMPBG417K/

 

[Alex771]

In June of 2023, I contacted Cameron Sino. The producer marketed its replacement 3.7 V 180 mAh lithium polymer battery pack CS-AP1107SL for the 17-inch A1107 PowerBook only, which has the (MPN) 820-1814-A board. The CS-AP1107SL is the only replacement pack I am aware of that already has the required 2-pin connector attached to the wires.

The A1138 PowerBook, which I still maintain, has the (MPN) 820-1819-A board.

For info, HERE is an interesting link for info on both 15" & 17" Alu PBook batteries.

Upon this link, I felt compelled to ask Cameron Sino whether the CS-AP1107SL is not also compatible with the A1106, A1138 and A1139. They promptly updated the product page to this:

Since then, I found that resellers are using the updated specs, e.g. TechTeck, which is one of their resellers.

CS-AP1107SL Laptop Akkus 180mAh Kompatibel mit A1106, A1107 17", A1138, A1139, PowerBook G4 Ersetzt 820-1814-A, 820-1819-A, 820-1824-A

Spannung: 3.7V Typ: Li-Polymer Farbe: Schwarz Kapazität: 180mAh Nettogewicht: 3.4g Bruttogewicht: 28g Leistung: 0.67Wh Passend für folgende Gerätemodelle: Kompatibel mit A1106 Kompatibel mit A1107 17" Kompatibel mit A1138 Kompatibel mit A1139 Kompatibel mit PowerBook G4 Für eine gesicherte K...

www.amazon.de

Laptop Akkus Apple CS-AP1107SL | Techtek

Laptop Akkus Apple CS-AP1107SL 🔋 (180 mAh, 3.7 V) Kompatibel mit A1106, A1107 17", A1138, A1139, POWERBOOK G4 Ersetzt: 💯 820-1814-A, 820-1819-A, 820-1824-A

www.techtek.de

In summary, this is the compatibility list for the CS-AP1107SL, as far as I've gathered the various details. May this help to preserve your PowerBooks!

Model	ID	Display	Processor Speed	PRAM board	compatible
A1106	PowerBook5,6	15-inch	1.5 GHz	?	?
A1106	PowerBook5,6	15-inch	1.67 GHz	?	I guess
A1138	PowerBook5,8	15-inch	1.67 GHz	820-1819-A	Yes
A1139	PowerBook5,9	17-inch	1.67 GHz	820-1814-A	Yes
?	?	17-inch	?	820-1824-A	Yes
A1052	PowerBook5,3	17-inch	1.33 GHz	820-1537-A	No
?	?	?	?	820-1391-A	No
?	?	?	?	820-1813-A	Yes

(By the way, if you ever find that DVDs don't eject from the optical disk drive, this may be because the PRAM battery bloats. When it does, the pressure this exerts on the optical drive can impede ejection.)

 

[DouglasCarroll]

In June of 2023, I contacted Cameron Sino. The producer marketed its replacement 3.7 V 180 mAh lithium polymer battery pack CS-AP1107SL for the 17-inch A1107 PowerBook only, which has the (MPN) 820-1814-A board. The CS-AP1107SL is the only replacement pack I am aware of that already has the required 2-pin connector attached to the wires.

The A1138 PowerBook, which I still maintain, has the (MPN) 820-1819-A board.



Upon this link, I felt compelled to ask Cameron Sino whether the CS-AP1107SL is not also compatible with the A1106, A1138 and A1139. They promptly updated the product page to this:

View attachment 2287023
Since then, I found that resellers are using the updated specs, e.g. TechTeck, which is one of their resellers.

CS-AP1107SL Laptop Akkus 180mAh Kompatibel mit A1106, A1107 17", A1138, A1139, PowerBook G4 Ersetzt 820-1814-A, 820-1819-A, 820-1824-A

Spannung: 3.7V Typ: Li-Polymer Farbe: Schwarz Kapazität: 180mAh Nettogewicht: 3.4g Bruttogewicht: 28g Leistung: 0.67Wh Passend für folgende Gerätemodelle: Kompatibel mit A1106 Kompatibel mit A1107 17" Kompatibel mit A1138 Kompatibel mit A1139 Kompatibel mit PowerBook G4 Für eine gesicherte K...

www.amazon.de

Laptop Akkus Apple CS-AP1107SL | Techtek

Laptop Akkus Apple CS-AP1107SL 🔋 (180 mAh, 3.7 V) Kompatibel mit A1106, A1107 17", A1138, A1139, POWERBOOK G4 Ersetzt: 💯 820-1814-A, 820-1819-A, 820-1824-A

www.techtek.de

In summary, this is the compatibility list for the CS-AP1107SL, as far as I've gathered the various details. May this help to preserve your PowerBooks!

Model	ID	Display	Processor Speed	PRAM board	compatible
A1106	PowerBook5,6	15-inch	1.5 GHz	?	?
A1106	PowerBook5,6	15-inch	1.67 GHz	?	I guess
A1138	PowerBook5,8	15-inch	1.67 GHz	820-1819-A	Yes
A1139	PowerBook5,9	17-inch	1.67 GHz	820-1814-A	Yes
?	?	17-inch	?	820-1824-A	Yes
A1052	PowerBook5,3	17-inch	1.33 GHz	820-1537-A	No
?	?	?	?	820-1391-A	No
?	?	?	?	820-1813-A	Yes

(By the way, if you ever find that DVDs don't eject from the optical disk drive, this may be because the PRAM battery bloats. When it does, the pressure this exerts on the optical drive can impede ejection.)

This is good info, useless to U.S. buyers however as they won’t ship to the States.

🤨

 

[Alex771]

This is good info, useless to U.S. buyers however as they won’t ship to the States.

Who "they"?

Try this instead?

Cameron Sino 180mAh Battery 820-1814-A for Apple A1107 17

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.us

Here is another seller on ebay Germany.

Akku für RAID Controller Apple PowerBook G4 A1107 820-1814-A | eBay

Dieser Akku ist passend: Für Apple PowerBook G4, A1107 17" / 43 cm, A1106, A1138, A1139 Dieser Akku ist Ersatz: Für Apple 820-1814-A, 820-1819-A, 820-1824-A CS-AP1107SL Technische Daten: Kapazität: 180 mAh / 0.67 Wh Spannung: 3.7 V Typ: Li-Polymer Maße: ca. 32 x 21 x 3 mm Gewicht: ca. 4 g...

www.ebay.de

I wouldn't shy away from asking if they can ship to the United States.

 

[PowerPCFan]

I know this is an old Thread, but I’ll type this for future reference:

You shouldn’t have to buy a new PRAM/NVRAM battery for the PowerBook, as long as the battery that powers the actual computer still works. I left my PowerBook sitting for 4 months with a confirmed dead clock battery and a fully charged regular battery and it saved the date + time. So if you fully charge your battery regularly whenever you put it in storage, and charge after every use, you should be completely fine.

But I’m just a 12 year old kid that absolutely loves PowerPC Macs, so I could be wrong.

But I think doing what @eyoungren said about resetting the NVRAM and then doing what I said (fully charge regular battery) should work.

 

[Alex771]

I know this is an old Thread, but I’ll type this for future reference:

Old, but relevant I am sure that SMC and PRAM are concepts not everyone is familiar with.

You shouldn’t have to buy a new PRAM/NVRAM battery for the PowerBook, as long as the battery that powers the actual computer still works.

I disagree. I don't think the PRAM battery is irrelevant. If the PRAM battery no longer holds charge, I'd rather get a new one.

As mentioned under #13, my PRAM battery pack started to bloat and DVDs wouldn't eject. That's why I am buying a new one. It took me a moment to realize that the battery pack above the optical disk drive was exerting pressure on the drive.

I left my PowerBook sitting for 4 months with a confirmed dead clock battery

(Which PowerBook? Which model number?)
If the PRAM battery is dead, as you say, I don't understand why date/time and network settings are not lost after using and then shutting down the PowerBook.

Loss of date/time and network settings (i.e. I'm prompted to enter the SSID to connect to WiFi) are the two items that I usually take as signs that the PRAM battery did not hold its charge in-between usage of the PowerBook.

So, In your case I would argue that your PRAM battery is in fact functional (not dead).

But I think doing what @eyoungren said about resetting the NVRAM and then doing what I said (fully charge regular battery) should work.

eyoungren did not mention a NVRAM reset, but a PMU reset!

The question here is whether one should reset SMC ("PMU" in the context of PPC computers) or PRAM or both after removing the battery for longer than – say, a minute, or when swapping for a different one.

The maker of smcFanControl once said that "PPC based macs don't have an SMC controller". I don't know if that is accurate, because the procedure for resetting SMC has been there for a long time.

SMC relates to power and thermal management while PRAM contains various settings. This image is from my notes with my devices in red. I created this list to see which device-specific settings I know about.

Here is something I don't understand: When looking at the NVRAM settings in Terminal on OS X 10.5, I don't see any keys for time/date and network settings. So, what's the use of resetting NVRAM in the context of the PRAM battery, if those settings are not part of NVRAM?!

Also, if PRAM settings are lost, what's the use of resetting the settings? It's not about "resetting", it's about re-creating any settings that were lost!

I think that resetting the PMU is the way to go, as mentioned by @eyoungren. For Non-T2 laptop computers with user-removable battery, like this:

- Shut the Mac down
- Disconnect any mains adaptor
- Remove the battery
- Press and hold the power button for no less than 5 seconds
- Insert the battery, then connect the mains power adaptor and ensure that power is being supplied to it.
- Power up normally