Final Cut Studio 3 & Yosemite

[pwhitehead]

I didn't get a chance to watch the keynote today, but did link things over when I got home from the studio.. The IOS 8 features seem cool, excited for the new cloud features n what not but I'm really worried about Yosemite.

Does anyone else think we'll have the same nightmares as we did with mavericks? I'm considering making a partition on my hard disk of it and give it a try. How do the rest of you professional final cut pro 7 users feel about Yosemite? If things don't work out, will you not upgrade and continue using Mountain Lion?

Share your thoughts and concerns!

 

[-DH]

My opinion is that is you edit professionally and you have a stable system you should never upgrade the OS unless you absolutely have to. If not, buy another Mac to run all the new crap that Apple offers and leave your editing system to do what you bought it for.

-DH

 

[northernmunky]

My opinion is that is you edit professionally and you have a stable system you should never upgrade the OS unless you absolutely have to. If not, buy another Mac to run all the new crap that Apple offers and leave your editing system to do what you bought it for.

-DH

New crap?

 

[JustinePaula]

I was surprised and a bit angered at the total lack of any news in regards pro applications. I agree with the "new crap" sentiment, no sooner as I get my head around the working of Mavericks along comes Great Grey Dump, aka Yosemite..

Apple knock it off, stop changing for change sake, I suspect FCP X will not work on my 2013 retina Macbook Pro come the fall..

 

[fdelacou]

A few reminders seem in order. WWDC is a developer conference. This is not the place nor the time to talk about pro applications unless this is a development related application (aka XCode).

Calling something a piece of crap simply because you don't want to learn minor changes and adopt enhancement is just plain stupid. I have a recommendation for you. You don't want the change? DON'T UPGRADE! It's that simple.

The changes in Yosemite are significant but they might not matter to you. It's not change for the sake of change, it's evolution.
As for your brand new Retina not running FCP X, well, I have an MBP from 2010 and went through 4 OS upgrades. FCP X has worked on every single upgrade on my machine.

The original thread was about FCP 7, not X. This software is outdated and you might indeed have more issues with Yosemite. How much? Unfortunately, only time will tell and as another person mentioned. If your livelihood depends on it, don't upgrade unless you have tested that the solution will work. Another partition (or external disk) is well worth the time to validate that.

My 2 cents,

 

[LethalWolfe]

I don't have any concerns because I'll keep a computer (or bootable HDD/partition) with a FCP 7 friendly version of Mac OS for the foreseeable future.

 

[pwhitehead]

The original thread was about FCP 7, not X. This software is outdated and you might indeed have more issues with Yosemite.

Final Cut Pro 7 might be outdated and hasn't had an update for quite sometime, but it still holds strong standards against the top nonlinear editing software's competing in the market. Premiere and Final Cut Pro are almost hand in hand with the same features, I use both regularly.

Apple should have just gave an update to Final Cut Pro 7 instead of remaking something that resembles iMovie. I'm very disappointed with apple for just not coming out with Final Cut pro 8, instead they jumped all the way to 10; WHY?

I will not use X, don't want anything to do with it what so ever! If I'm forced to, I will just use creative cloud. Even though Final Cut Pro 7 is outdated, its still used by professionals and Hollywood production companies all around the world.

 

[kokako]

what will you professional final cut 7 users do.... final cut x isn't for professionals?

 

[Revivalution]

Why are you still using FCP Studio?

Just to be clear I am not a NOOB. I started editing video on FCP the day Version 1 came out, and it has allowed me to start and do well with my own high end motion production company.

I've heard all of the complaints about FCP X and the best anyone can come up with is it looks like iMovie Pro. That is the biggest joke. What I'm able to bring out of FCPX compared to anything I was able to do on FCP Studio is much, much better. And the speed at which I'm able to work is almost double that of FCP 7. Yes, they released it too early and it was not ready for Pro users. Now it is.

I understand if you don't want to make the move to FCP X but there are other developers out there that took the opportunity to grow their product through the FCPX Discontent. They are updating their software regularly and it has surpassed FCP 7.

So for those of you clinging to the hope that the Apple will make the move back to it's old non linear editor you need to know that FCP 7 is Dead... Move on.

 

[pwhitehead]

Just to be clear I am not a NOOB. I started editing video on FCP the day Version 1 came out, and it has allowed me to start and do well with my own high end motion production company.

I've heard all of the complaints about FCP X and the best anyone can come up with is it looks like iMovie Pro. That is the biggest joke. What I'm able to bring out of FCPX compared to anything I was able to do on FCP Studio is much, much better. And the speed at which I'm able to work is almost double that of FCP 7. Yes, they released it too early and it was not ready for Pro users. Now it is.

I understand if you don't want to make the move to FCP X but there are other developers out there that took the opportunity to grow their product through the FCPX Discontent. They are updating their software regularly and it has surpassed FCP 7.

So for those of you clinging to the hope that the Apple will make the move back to it's old non linear editor you need to know that FCP 7 is Dead... Move on.

Got a question for ya.. How do you roundtrip between motion 5 and final cut x? As a final cut pro 7 user, I simple create a text solid, right click and send it to motion.. I do my composite, save and go back to final cut: poof, its there! You cant do this with Final Cut X. You can't do nearly the things in final cut x you can do with pro 7..

Name 5 Hollywood movies that were made with X.. Professionals don't like it. I consider X (easy mode editing).

 

[JustinePaula]

With a few tweaks here and there, Final Cut Pro X will be the only reason to edit anything from baby births to $100m Snottywood creations.

Apple Inc is working very hard, I hope, on improving the experience of editing on X, although I am surprised that there are no sessions at WWDC dedicated to FCP X or Logic. Maybe Apple Inc has this covered and the need to reach out to the developers, is not needed.

X has flaws, so does all the other editing systems, there is no perfect system, having used 6/7 aka Classic FCP, and now X, and seeing how rooted in the FCP Classic mode Avid and Adobe are, I am not sure for how much longer Avid and Adobe are going to maintain the fixed tracks system. It works, so why change it??

That is a great question, if Standard Def worked, why did we need to have HD, 2K, 4k? Progress, you can stand and shout how crappy X is, the fact is, there is a very exciting, vibrant community of developers creating all sorts of apps and plug in's for X, I do not see any where as near as vibrant and productive a community in Avid or Adobe userbase.

Soon it will be the day when FCP 6/7 no longer works, and you will find yourself long way behind in the understanding of how this works, for a tiny cost, less than 12 months subs to Adobe, you have a full paid for editing system that does not need to phone home every 30 seconds to mommy asking am I allowed to work...

Drop FCP 7, install X and make money....Only a fool stands in the rain wondering why they are getting wet...

 

[Revivalution]

With a few tweaks here and there, Final Cut Pro X will be the only reason to edit anything from baby births to $100m Snottywood creations.

Apple Inc is working very hard, I hope, on improving the experience of editing on X, although I am surprised that there are no sessions at WWDC dedicated to FCP X or Logic. Maybe Apple Inc has this covered and the need to reach out to the developers, is not needed.

X has flaws, so does all the other editing systems, there is no perfect system, having used 6/7 aka Classic FCP, and now X, and seeing how rooted in the FCP Classic mode Avid and Adobe are, I am not sure for how much longer Avid and Adobe are going to maintain the fixed tracks system. It works, so why change it??

That is a great question, if Standard Def worked, why did we need to have HD, 2K, 4k? Progress, you can stand and shout how crappy X is, the fact is, there is a very exciting, vibrant community of developers creating all sorts of apps and plug in's for X, I do not see any where as near as vibrant and productive a community in Avid or Adobe userbase.

Soon it will be the day when FCP 6/7 no longer works, and you will find yourself long way behind in the understanding of how this works, for a tiny cost, less than 12 months subs to Adobe, you have a full paid for editing system that does not need to phone home every 30 seconds to mommy asking am I allowed to work...

Drop FCP 7, install X and make money....Only a fool stands in the rain wondering why they are getting wet...

You did with a lot more tact what I was trying to do. It was a nightmare when I first switched to FCPX but now it is a dream to work with.

 

[Revivalution]

Got a question for ya.. How do you roundtrip between motion 5 and final cut x? As a final cut pro 7 user, I simple create a text solid, right click and send it to motion.. I do my composite, save and go back to final cut: poof, its there! You cant do this with Final Cut X. You can't do nearly the things in final cut x you can do with pro 7..

Name 5 Hollywood movies that were made with X.. Professionals don't like it. I consider X (easy mode editing).

Man, I'm not trying to be ugly, but with questions like this it seems that you've not used it. If I were you I would learn it. It is the future. Because of it's ability to easily work with 4K and above it is going to start seeing more and more adoption for major films. LumaForge is currently cutting a $100,000,000 movie on it just for that reason. Besides the fact that it screams on the new machines and this is something that FCP7 is not going to do.

Your concerns are legitimate for 7. I fully think it has reached end of life and it is not going to be supported by Apple much longer if at all.

If your motion question was a serious one it works wonderfully with FCPX. We only use motion for lower thirds inside of FCPX. Any of our serious effect comping is done inside of After Effects.

I am wondering why you wouldn't prefer "Easy Mode Editing" as opposed to what could only be termed "Hard Mose Editing". I'm Honestly able to work at double the speed I used to be able to work on 7. It was an adjustment for me that I went into kicking and screaming, but now it has paid off. I don't know how to explain it but if I was to work on 2 projects side by side one in FCPX and one in 7, the one in X comes out faster and looks better than the final coming out of 7.

 

[JustinePaula]

There is a video that sort of sums up how I feel about FCP X, it is by lightiron's Micheal Cioni, in which he explains how we should as professionals approach the next decade in regards technology in production and post production. Video link http://vimeo.com/73797466

Towards the end, around 20m in, he describes FCP X, this was 10.0.x version, but the same applies for 10.1.1.

I was the same, this is imovie and it sucks, then I watched this video, thought about the ideas he put forward, did the research, watch a ton of video on FCP X, Larry Jordan, Ripple, I watched video and read about Adobe and Avid, I am not wealthy, saved for a long time, I was not going to sink a whack of savings on something I did not feel was going to be worthwhile.

I emailed Adobe and Avid, posed questions to admin on forums, of which there are barely any for Avid and Adobe. that alone speaks volumes of the health of a system, the number of people in a community. Adobe/Avid very very few, Apple has so many, I lost count...

I might be wrong, I might be right, I see it like this, Apple took a risk, changed the way we edit in FCP X, was it right when it came out, nope, Apple admit to making a huge mistake with the 10.0 series of updates, now with the 10.1.x series, more and more I see the vast potential in the software.

Apple has faults with customer interaction, the lady in Burburry pants, she might be the solution, maybe not, Apple does need to improve the interaction with users of pro apps, such as FCP and Logic.

Name 5 movies, does it matter how the movie is made? Would it matter if the movie was strung out in imovie on an ipad, finished in FCP X, colored in Resolve?

Will you enjoy the movie any less?? No... Stop harping on what carpenter uses what tools and just enjoy the handiwork....

 

[pwhitehead]

Man, I'm not trying to be ugly, but with questions like this it seems that you've not used it. If I were you I would learn it. It is the future. Because of it's ability to easily work with 4K and above it is going to start seeing more and more adoption for major films. LumaForge is currently cutting a $100,000,000 movie on it just for that reason. Besides the fact that it screams on the new machines and this is something that FCP7 is not going to do.

Your concerns are legitimate for 7. I fully think it has reached end of life and it is not going to be supported by Apple much longer if at all.

If your motion question was a serious one it works wonderfully with FCPX. We only use motion for lower thirds inside of FCPX. Any of our serious effect comping is done inside of After Effects.

I am wondering why you wouldn't prefer "Easy Mode Editing" as opposed to what could only be termed "Hard Mose Editing". I'm Honestly able to work at double the speed I used to be able to work on 7. It was an adjustment for me that I went into kicking and screaming, but now it has paid off. I don't know how to explain it but if I was to work on 2 projects side by side one in FCPX and one in 7, the one in X comes out faster and looks better than the final coming out of 7.

Easy mode? LOL!!! Motion is not only used for lower thirds! Final Cut Pro 7 is much easier and not as hard to work around in as X is.. And just because something looks good and easier to work with, does not mean its better. I edit video for TV and why would I want to edit 4k video if no ones broadcasting it? There's no need to take a final cut x project, composite something in after effects, export and import to X. Its much easier using the round trip feature in studio 3 or dynamic link in adobe cs6 or cc, your saving your self 4 steps!

Keep drinking the red cool aid man.. Until apple makes X what it should be, i'm staying far away...

 

[JustinePaula]

Just because one aspect of media production uses a certain brand of editing, you are going to base your income on that? Does Avid fit into your purchase plans?

Just because movies in Snottywood uses Avid does not make them the market leader to which you have to base your purchase decisions on. You need to do your homework, find what most fits your needs. Do you need all the headaches that Avid supplies?

Before you have a go at me, stop and reply with the following, I need Avid as it does........

I will not buy FCP X because it does not do the following.....

As I have explained above, FCP X is new, Adobe/Avid is older than the hills in Snottywood, dead horses cannot win the Derby...

So what you are saying is that you will only purchase FCP X, once some snotty nosed studio in SnottyWood starts announcing it uses FCP X.. That might be a long time, and how much could you have earned waiting for the day that happens...

Have you watched the video I supplied the link for? I suspect not, a pity, as well it might just change your thinking going forward...

For me, X is the way, I am no fan of Apple, I write a blog about the bad side of Apple, as no one seems to, I have very strong issues with Apple Inc, but I still needed to buy some sort of editing system

Will Adobe/Avid be around in 5 years, maybe, will they still have the same fixed tracks and the problems with that?? Most likely yes..

Auditions and mutlicam editing in FCP X, is more than justifies the purchase, and with input from a very vocal vibrant user base, Apple is going to make improvements, hopefully sooner than later.

What about independent films, tv doccies, news inserts, the bread and butter editing that most of us do, most of the time we find a way to make it work, then a few months later, Apple updates and makes the changes we need.

 

[Revivalution]

Easy mode? LOL!!! Motion is not only used for lower thirds! Final Cut Pro 7 is much easier and not as hard to work around in as X is.. And just because something looks good and easier to work with, does not mean its better. I edit video for TV and why would I want to edit 4k video if no ones broadcasting it? There's no need to take a final cut x project, composite something in after effects, export and import to X. Its much easier using the round trip feature in studio 3 or dynamic link in adobe cs6 or cc, your saving your self 4 steps!

Keep drinking the red cool aid man.. Until apple makes X what it should be, i'm staying far away...

Ok. Clearly you are closed to this and so wrong on so many levels. I've wasted my time with this conversation. Just so you know motion works a million times better in FCPX than it ever did in 7. The difference between you and I, is that I've used both and know this. You've used one set under some stump of a professor or someone else that raved about the problems with X and it has cut you off to the future. Enjoy your TV cutting and your sandwich making.

 

[JustinePaula]

I agree that there is a closed mind here...I too work in television, and to answer the question, why edit/shoot in 4k if no one is using it....

Well it is like this, you see there is this thing, it is called time, and well it sort of marches on, I remember a period in history, when the biggest thing since the invention of tv was Betacam SP, then all of a sardine, with the march of time, it became, DVCPRO, then SX and so on..Then everyone went nuts for HD..now it is 2k, 4k...

As you work in tv you should be aware of a department called Archives...The better quality you shoot now in 2014 means better quality in 2020 and so on...If you have a 4k camera, use it, if it is a problem then edit in proxy, and export as full rez...Solved...

I have a headache from bashing my head on the keyboard....It is so simple, FCP 7 is horse-poo, the same for Avid and rental Adobe...

 

[handsome pete]

Christ, it was only a matter of time until this degenerated into the tired old "FCPX Pro or Not-Pro" argument. It's been a couple of years now, get over it. FCPX brought some cool things to the table, but it isn't for everyone. I saw many jump to Premiere, which is a pretty solid NLE on its own (not to mention its integration with other Adobe software), and there are facilities/agencies I've worked with that are still plugging away on FCP7 because it wasn't broken to begin with (just aging rapidly). And of course Avid still dominates the larger organizations/facilities. All have their pros and cons. Just use what makes sense for your workflow and will allow you to get the job done. No need to deride others for that choice. Chances are, for any longevity in this business, you'll need experience with most of these platforms regardless.

But to the person who asked about what FCPX is still missing, this list has some of those features: (as well as a bunch that aren't in other NLEs either).

http://fcpx.tv/top.html


And to address the original poster's question, I would tread lightly with trying to get FCP7 working on any future OS. That's certainly one of the tradeoffs with sticking with an EOL product.

 

[LethalWolfe]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[neelagrawal]

Will it work with Yosemite?

Hello everyone,

I enjoyed the argument about Final Cut Pro X and Final Cut Pro 7. Both sides posted some really good points. What I was wondering is:

Will the Final Cut Studio 3 selection on applications (Final Cut Pro 7, Motion, DVD Studio Pro, Color, Soundtrack Pro) work with Yosemite?

I have a Macbook running Mavericks and am able to use Final Cut Pro 7.

If we don't know if Final Cut Pro 7 will work with Yosemite, do you think we will find out before it is officially released?

Thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Neel

 

[LethalWolfe]

If we don't know if Final Cut Pro 7 will work with Yosemite, do you think we will find out before it is officially released?

Thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Neel

No one can say for sure until Yosemite is released and tested extensively. FCP 7 has some issues with audio sync under Mavericks but it seems to be happening to users that have third party I/O cards installed (which adds another variable to the mix).

I have machines running as far back as 10.6 and I have a FCP 7 install on a 10.8 machine and I'll likely never upgrade that drive beyond 10.8. There's nothing in 10.9 or 10.10 that will make FCP 7 run better so there's no point in upgrading. That will be my 'FCP 7 frozen in time' drive.

 

[macsforever]

I was surprised and a bit angered at the total lack of any news in regards pro applications. I agree with the "new crap" sentiment, no sooner as I get my head around the working of Mavericks along comes Great Grey Dump, aka Yosemite..

Apple knock it off, stop changing for change sake, I suspect FCP X will not work on my 2013 retina Macbook Pro come the fall..

You don't have to! If it works, why?

 

[will moindrot]

I tested it and it worked fine for me

I did a quick install of Yosemite public beta on a partition on a spare computer and Final Cut Pro 7 / compressor 4 played ball just fine. Happy so far and if stays that way may even move production machine over to it in good time:

http://youtu.be/sKDIxhIrgw0

 

[Imhotep397]

Personally, I'm waiting to evaluate NUKE Studio and Davinci Edit, hoping they are not subscription only and I'm constantly considering Smoke.

FCP X just doesn't cut it for me. There are still too many things that chap my hide about FCP X...even years later. Between the automagical saving to the fact that it's not really a native 3-point editing solution to the fact that Apple wants to paint in broad strokes to implement their uneducated opinion about how editing should work, but only take baby steps in implementing features/usability changes deemed necessary by industry veterans and others that edit for a living it's just a sad state of affairs considering Final Cut's lineage and almost unfathomable success from the time it was acquired from the then Macromedia software developer.