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1799 vs 2299

D

dwd3885

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Dec 10, 2004
2,137
197
So in looking for my first mac, i've came to the decision of getting one of these two machines, either the Dual 2ghz or Dual 2.3ghz. The refurbs are great deals, but I'd like to be able to get the better vid card, etc. and also, I can't seem to land at the right time to purchase one, since the good ones sell so fast.

So the issue is PCI vs PCI-X, 4gb vs 8gb, 160gb hd vs 250gb. The difference is $500 for me and my educational discount. I have right now, 2x1gb RAM that's going to be going into this system and I also have 160gb hd that will be going in. So that's out there for your knowledge.

What types of PCI-X cards will be avaliable in the future? And how long will 4gb last before it's not enough to run whatever OS is out there then. Hard drive space is almost the last concern. I'm not even totally sure about how much I'll upgrade the thing in the future, even though i've been a die hard PC guy for years whose always built his own machines an upgraded the heck out of them. I'm trying to discover a new philosophy. Of maybe buying and not upgrading much and then buying new again. It saves money in the long run.

Thanks for reading this long post. I appreciate your advice
 
slow night? lol ;-) i just really enjoy listening to all your advice on here. it's really probably my fav. message board, besides theforce.net of course!!
 
what are you using the computer for? if it's internet/email/word/photoshop (not on a huge scale), etc. maybe you should consider an imac? i'd tend to go with the 2.0 because you could upgrade the video card, add airport/bluetooth, etc. and still be cheaper than the 2.3.
g4 towers had 3 or 4 ram slots and they're still fine today, although that's a bad comparison i'm sure...
 
great, now you got me thinking about the imac!! i just bought a nice monitor, the dell 2005fpw. i never was a fan of all in ones though, unless people can convince me. i am a college student who is majoring in communications and digital media. i do a lot of work with audio. some video editing, and graphics, but mostly audio. so you seem to think the 4 slots aren't a big deal? I kinda figure that by the time I'd actually NEED To upgrade to 4gb ram, i would probably be better off getting a new system.

so what about the pci-x slots?
 
so if i consider imac, i don't know where it would go in my room. don't really have room for another monitor on top of my desk. but it would be like $600 cheaper than the new PM. Since i"m thinking about imac, what about a refurb G5 single cpu? It's 1299 at apple's refurb site. do i really need dual processor power?? now i'm all confused again!!!!
 
dwd3885 said:
so if i consider imac, i don't know where it would go in my room. don't really have room for another monitor on top of my desk. but it would be like $600 cheaper than the new PM. Since i"m thinking about imac, what about a refurb G5 single cpu? It's 1299 at apple's refurb site. do i really need dual processor power?? now i'm all confused again!!!!
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If I were in your position, I'd go with the iMac (I say that as a Power Mac owner). IMO, the single CPU Power Mac isn't a very good deal, because for roughly the same price you can get an iMac that is just as fast and has a built in monitor, better GPU, built in wireless and Bluetooth, etc.
 
mduser63 said:
If I were in your position, I'd go with the iMac (I say that as a Power Mac owner). IMO, the single CPU Power Mac isn't a very good deal, because for roughly the same price you can get an iMac that is just as fast and has a built in monitor, better GPU, built in wireless and Bluetooth, etc.
Click to expand...

ok, so the single is out of the question now :) so it's basicaly the old question of single g5 vs dual g5, and the fact that i bought that dell 2005fpw in june! and it's pretty damn sweet, i'd hate for that to go to waste
 
Go with the iMac--any one of the three configurations would be fine for you--maybe a gig of ram though. Since you haven't bought a mac, the iMac is a great starting point. And, if down the road you decide you really need a Power Mac, you could always sell this in a couple of years, still get a great price for selling it, and know if the Power Mac would really be worth it for you.

I was going down the same road as you, but for what you use it for, the iMac should be fine for you. I just got my first Apple computer, iMac G5 20inch last week--and was considering a Power Mac also--but when you use it yourself, and see how slick it is for an all in one, you'll know. If you can't decide, try the iMac out in an Apple store. And if the screen seems too dim, it's not. Just go into system preferences/display and turn the brightness up all the way.
 
I have a dual 2.0, and i love it. It is by far the fastest computer I have ever used(and i have used plenty of computers). Its a great computer for a great price. The 4gb vs 8gb isn't a big deal. PCI-X vs. PCI not a major thing either. Its a big deal if your a pro, or using the machine for some major severing (think 5TB XRAIDS), but not for a normal person. How many people even buy add on cards for their mac?

Like I said great computer and its wicked fast. (Well if your a gamer make sure you get a wicked fast video card to go with you wicked fast computer ;) )
 
I still recommend the Rev B 2.0 because it gives you the same PRO motherboard as the 2.3 for $1649.

If you're seriously interested in audio recording, the money you save buying the Rev B refurb will give you enough to buy an M-Audio A/D interface.

You can ALWAYS buy a better graphics card later directly from ATI and dual layer burners are an easy and cheap upgrade.

If you can afford the 2.3, go for it, but if you have a tight budget the dual 2.0 Rev B is your best deal.
 
FFTT said:
I still recommend the Rev B 2.0 because it gives you the same PRO motherboard as the 2.3 for $1649.

If you're seriously interested in audio recording, the money you save buying the Rev B refurb will give you enough to buy an M-Audio A/D interface.

You can ALWAYS buy a better graphics card later directly from ATI and dual layer burners are an easy and cheap upgrade.

If you can afford the 2.3, go for it, but if you have a tight budget the dual 2.0 Rev B is your best deal.
Click to expand...

I'll second that. Rev. B dual 2.0.
 
Have you considered the dual 1.8's. Their is the psychological barrier of 2 Ghz but the dual 1.8 is available refurbed for $1499 right now. You could get that bad boy and a radeon X800 that combo will smoke the standard 2.0 G5. Especially in games. Then through in another gig of ram. You can also do the same with the single 1.8 and blow away any iMac.
 
The dual 1.8 and the newer Rev C 2.0 both use the crippled prosumer
4 RAM slot motherboard.

Frankly Apple should scrap this inferior hardware configuration and
bring back the all PRO PowerMac motherboard lineup.

It's bad enough that Apple still does not offer PCI-e, but standard 33MHz
PCI expansion slots in the prosumer motherboard need to go the way of the Do Do.
 
ok, i know i said the single pm was out, but what if i got one? I already have the 2005FPW and I don't know what to do with that if I get the iMac. But I also need bluetooth on it and don't really want to have to use a usb port or buy a bluetooth adapter separately. if i had more money now, i'd just get the 1799 new and add bluetooth. but i'm kinda looking at less than 1500 on my purchase, and more like 1299 or less. i know that's cheap to get a PM of anykind, better yet dual PM.

I know I'm doing digital audio, little video and photoshop, but I'm not a professional by any means. I don't know if I REALLY need dual if I can save $500 by getting a single. What do you guys think?
 
dwd3885 said:
ok, i know i said the single pm was out, but what if i got one? I already have the 2005FPW and I don't know what to do with that if I get the iMac. But I also need bluetooth on it and don't really want to have to use a usb port or buy a bluetooth adapter separately. if i had more money now, i'd just get the 1799 new and add bluetooth. but i'm kinda looking at less than 1500 on my purchase, and more like 1299 or less. i know that's cheap to get a PM of anykind, better yet dual PM.

I know I'm doing digital audio, little video and photoshop, but I'm not a professional by any means. I don't know if I REALLY need dual if I can save $500 by getting a single. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
if you get the imac you could use your 2005fpw with it. there's a mini vga out port and you just buy a mini vga to vga adapter and plug the 2005fpw into that. download "screen spanning doctor" to allow display spanning and you hav e dual displays! in the setup thread, i can remember edesignuk having that along with perhaps some others. i remember seeing that you're eligible for the education discount which would put a 17" 2ghz imac at $1400 and an extra $100 or so would get you a 1gb stick of ram for 1.5gb. if you find yourself needing more storage space later you could get a firewire hard drive.
 
I don't like iMacs because of the intergrated graphics and display, but now I'm experiencing a problem that my Cube also has: lack of proper SCSI support. The fastest SCSI/FireWire converter available only does 20 MB/s. Now I got a new tape drive that's needs something faster than that (and LVD) for optimal operation. So, everything except Power Mac sucks for backups. The only solution with the non-pro machines is to spend over a grand on a new firewire VXA drive because none are to be found second hand. And they are not as fast
as the technology I got used for cheaper (I do like the VXA packet concept, as it should be more reliable than linear tape, though).
So, one vote for Power Mac.
 
cube said:
I don't like iMacs because of the intergrated graphics and display, but now I'm experiencing a problem that my Cube also has: lack of proper SCSI support. The fastest SCSI/FireWire converter available only does 20 MB/s. Now I got a new tape drive that's needs something faster than that (and LVD) for optimal operation. So, everything except Power Mac sucks for backups. The only solution with the non-pro machines is to spend over a grand on a new firewire VXA drive because none are to be found second hand. And they are not as fast
as the technology I got used for cheaper (I do like the VXA packet concept, as it should be more reliable than linear tape, though).
So, one vote for Power Mac.
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i dont think he, a college student like me, is very concerned with tape backups.

may SCSI rest in piece.
 
chaos86 said:
i dont think he, a college student like me, is very concerned with tape backups.

may SCSI rest in piece.
Click to expand...

lol. that's true.
 
dwd3885 said:
I know I'm doing digital audio, little video and photoshop, but I'm not a professional by any means. I don't know if I REALLY need dual if I can save $500 by getting a single. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
There's good adivice all around in this thread, but it's a really tough call. The good news is there aren't really any "bad" options--it's just a matter of which good option fits your needs best.

The thing with the single processor tower is, you're basically getting a very large iMac without the screen and with more internal expansion. If you need PCI slots for something specific, or really prefer internal to external hard drives for some reason, or want a very beefy graphics card but don't care about the rest of the specs, then the SP tower isn't a bad choice. Otheriwse, you're a whole lot better getting a similarly priced iMac, which has a nice screen thrown in as well as taking up way less space.

The dual tower won't be massively faster for what you're doing, but it does make a difference, particularly if you're the impatient type who likes to have two or three different things running at once (rendering something in the background while doing editing and listening to music or whatever). It's biggest advantage, though, is the extra RAM capacity and better motherboard.


Were I, personally, in your situation, I'd basically weigh it this way:

If space was at a premium, I'd get the iMac and enjoy it--they're great machines and fast enought to get anything reasonable done. Toss in some Firewire drives if I need more storage and it'll last a good long while. You'll probably even be able to afford AppleCare, which is nice for the 3-year peace of mind.

The space issue is real, too--the G5 towers are big mothers, while the iMac takes up so little space it's amazing, and you'll really enjoy it if you don't have a huge desk.

If Power is the premium, or I have a good chunk of money to spend right now and really want my investment to last, I'd get a dual PM; the aforementioned early-model 2.0 is great (that's what I have, bought new a month after release and still running strong) but stretching for the 2.3 is better if at all possible, just for that extra bit of edge on obsolescece. That you already have a monitor makes this option look more appealing, certainly.

Last time I bought a computer, I opted for the latter--I spent a fortune on a top-of-the-line G5 tower with lots of RAM and a couple big internal drives. As a result, I've been using the thing and enjoying it as a FAST computer for 2 years with almost no additions (certainly nothing necessary). I'm geeky and work with video, so might add some more hard drives (I did put in an external SATA card) and maybe upgrade the DVD burner to a Pioneer 110, but the thing should easily last another 2 years of heavy-duty use before I even think about an upgrade, and a lot longer if I was feeling thrifty or wasn't so power-hungry.

Basically, from the sound of it, it sounds like you'd be quite happy with an iMac, particularly if you really don't want to lay out the extra cash. But if you're going to go heavy duty, I'd go all out and spend whatever you can scrape together for a dual tower with the good motherboard, then finish decking it out as you get more money (which probably won't take much, since you already have a nice monitor and 2GB of RAM ready). Then, just don't think about upgrading unless there's something specific you actually need--sure, that new 500GB hard drive or an extra couple gigs of RAM sound tempting, but if you resist the need to show off, you can probably comfortably go years without an upgrade, saving yourself money in the long run. Better yet, if it starts to get slow down the line, dump in some more RAM, a new drive, and a better graphics card, and you're good to go again.
 
Thanks Makosuke, that was some GREAT advice!! Thanks for taking the time out. It has convinced my to get the Dual G5 PM. Now I just need to find a good deal on one, maybe apple refurb. but i'd like bluetooth as well, and none of those seems to have it. MY PC sale on EBay ENDS TONIGHT though. In about two hours it ends. Wish me luck! Hopefully that goes better than expected and I can get my ideal Mac!
 
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