What's wrong with the Finder?

[TeddyNicholson]

Hi, I've read a lot of people saying how bad the finder in 10.4 is, especially when talking about potential improvements to it in 10.5. I've used macs for a long time now and I love OS X and I see no problems at all with the finder. Is this because I have low standards, or am I just blind?

Anyway, I'd be interested to see what you actually think is wrong with it.

 

[Dasmo]

Some things in the Finder don't make sense.

I'd really just like to be able to arrange the icons in a folder by right clicking and clicking on "Arrange by:Name" but you have to use the view menu at the top for that. That wastes my time. There's a few other things I don't like about it. I still prefer windows explorer to the mac's finder. But everything else in osx is great and everything else in windows makes me want to kill kittens.

 

[gekko513]

I see mostly two types of complaints. One is of the kind that Dasmo has, people that are used to something different, and the other kind is that Finder doesn't always handle network shares, .Mac and external hard drives gracefully.

 

[EricNau]

I would like finder in 10.5 to fully support FTP. As it is now, it almost does, but not quite.

 

[solvs]

It's not so much that it's bad as that it could stand some improvements. It hasn't really been updated in awhile. I'm sure 10.5 will be pleasantly surprising for those who are ok with the Finder as is, and those wanting a bit more should be fairly happy. Of course, everyone else is just going to bitch because some random thing that was never promised isn't implemented, but the rest of us won't really think about it as long as it works.

 

[commonpeople]

I was just going to whine about how Finder doesn't let you go up folders if you click on say 'Music' on the left of the Finder. I just found out you can do it by pressing apple+up key, or by using the 'go' menu.

In any case- there's just something about Finder+Spotlight's Gui navigation that puts me off. It just feels too wimpy compared to the rest of the OS. Can I still complain even if I don't know what needs to be fixed?

 

[nplima]

finder not a keeper

hi all

disclaimer: I'm used to windows explorer since windows 3.0 and all sorts of "graphical shells" before it, like pctools, pcshell and stuff whose names I can't remember anymore My comments on the Finder are from my recent experience with OS X Panther, which was bundled with my first Mac. I'm usually happiest organizing my files with Gnome Nautilus.

1) directory name on Finder window: if I have /Users/Thor/Music and /Users/Thor/backup/Music and I place both windows side by side, I'll get 2 windows named "Music". That doesn't help finding stuff and keeping backup copies up to date. Windows XP explorer contains an option to hide the full directory name on the window title, and I happen to like it to be off - with the Finder I don't seem to have a choice.

2) Why, oh Why can't I have a "location" bar on the finder? I wish I could just type "/Users/Odin/Photos/2004/Summer/at Loki's place" to get there instead of clicking about.

3) cut, copy, paste. Very useful to move files about. Where is "cut"? Are the OS X designers so afraid I delete my own files that "cut" is not on the "Edit" menu?

4) "enter" key to rename files? I wonder what key should I use to enter the application that manipulates the file...

5) open shares. I use a dial up connection (Internet Connect - PPTP) to log on to my company's VPN. After I'm logged on, I can mount a remote drive on my desktop, let's say "smb://192.168.10.10/public".
When I'm done, I disable the PPTP connection. If I happen to forget to unmount the remote drive I get one dialog like "hey! I can't find the remote share. Should I go on trying, or do you want to shut it down?"... sigh.... shut down the remote share. another dialog "by shutting down the share you won't be able to access files over there. Are you sure?"... wow, Microsoft has a mole working at Apple Computer...
Same thing happens with shares on your LAN, of course.

When using Gnome Nautilus (in this case it's even better than windows explorer), setting up the remote share will place an icon on my desktop. If the connection is available, it works normally. if it's off, then there's no route to the host and you'll only find out when you use that icon. simple enough.

So if you care about my opinion, I'd have to say that Finder is the one thing I dislike about using OS X and is really keeping me from working better than before. I'm considering to dump OS X altogether and use my powerbook with Ubuntu linux in full time. All I need to do is get PPTP to work under Linux and the same for PPP, so I can use my mobile phone as a modem for the laptop.

NL

 

[ITASOR]

My major complaint is FTP.

 

[steviem]

Yeah, Finder sucks at ftp...

 

[Yuvi]

1) directory name on Finder window: if I have /Users/Thor/Music and /Users/Thor/backup/Music and I place both windows side by side, I'll get 2 windows named "Music"...

EDIT: ignore me on this...

2) Why, oh Why can't I have a "location" bar on the finder? I wish I could just type "/Users/Odin/Photos/2004/Summer/at Loki's place" to get there instead of clicking about.

You can hit Command-shift-G to go someplace by typing in the path, both absolute and relative to the current window.

3) cut, copy, paste. Very useful to move files about. Where is "cut"? Are the OS X designers so afraid I delete my own files that "cut" is not on the "Edit" menu?

4) "enter" key to rename files? I wonder what key should I use to enter the application that manipulates the file...

Mac traditions (copy a file, you only get its name, and Command-O for 4.) The second I like a lot, especially when renaming a bunch of files (and are you talking about the "Return" key? Or do you want a different behaviour for the numeric keypad's enter key?), and the first I've never felt the need for in the Finder, unlike in Windows where maximizing windows is the norm.

5) open shares...

Yes, network shares of all kinds need to be improved in the Finder. Still, unless my memory's wrong, I've found that they handle better than in Windows Explorer, with the exception of FTP. But then, I haven't really used Windows for network shares recently.

I'd really just like to be able to arrange the icons in a folder by right clicking and clicking on "Arrange by:Name" but you have to use the view menu at the top for that...

The worst thing is that you could do this pre-OS X. I too wish Apple would make the contextual menus as good as they used to be in the Finder.

 

[eXan]

I dont like problems with connecting to Windows computers Since .4.7 I cannot connect to my mom's PC laptop anymore.

 

[portent]

3) cut, copy, paste. Very useful to move files about. Where is "cut"? Are the OS X designers so afraid I delete my own files that "cut" is not on the "Edit" menu?

Yes, they are. The Cut command was not left out by accident. Copy works. Paste works. Every other app has a Cut command. The Finder doesn't, because it's too dangerous.

Same reason the Finder doesn't have a "Delete" command (or shortcut.)

Single-step delete is too dangerous. Even now (with the two stage "move-to-trash" and "empty-trash") too many morons delete stuff and blame Apple for making it too easy.

 

[nplima]

round II

You can hit Command-shift-G to go someplace by typing in the path, both absolute and relative to the current window.

and that does help. however it's not exactly the same, nor as useful as being able to know "where you are" by just having a quick glance at an "address bar", as other file managers have.

Mac traditions (copy a file, you only get its name, and Command-O for 4.) The second I like a lot, especially when renaming a bunch of files (and are you talking about the "Return" key?

yes, that was what I meant, sorry. past experience with other file managers obviously plays a role here, however it still feels odd to have to use a 2-key combination to do something so simple as opening a file.

Yes, network shares of all kinds need to be improved in the Finder. Still, unless my memory's wrong, I've found that they handle better than in Windows Explorer, with the exception of FTP. But then, I haven't really used Windows for network shares recently.

that particular operation I mentioned works in a more sensible way with windows explorer. the downside to it is that the handling of multiple tasks is not as perfect as under linux and OS X, and if the network resource is unreacheable, the user has to wait for a network timeout to get 100% control over the file manager again. it's quite bad.

As for the cut&paste&delete issue, it's really frustrating when companies pay too much attention to Joe Sixpack when designing stuff

 

[theBB]

Yes, they are. The Cut command was not left out by accident. Copy works. Paste works. Every other app has a Cut command. The Finder doesn't, because it's too dangerous.

How about making it an option through preferences? An OS for the novices at this day and age without access to advanced features, which in this case is not all that advanced to begin with, is not good software design.

 

[theBB]

and that does help. however it's not exactly the same, nor as useful as being able to know "where you are" by just having a quick glance at an "address bar", as other file managers have.

I agree. "Go to" is an OK way to navigate, but an option to have an address bar would be nice. This is not "Windows and OSX ways are different, get used to it" kind of a difference. Maybe, the address bar would not look as nice, but at least give me the option. There is no excuse for not giving users the option to have some basic and useful features.

Like another poster said, it would be better to have "sort by" accessable from somewhere in the Finder window, instead of the top bar. On a large screen that is usually quite a mouse move.

I gotta say though, I like the pull down menu to navigate to the upper level directories. Customizable sidebar is also very useful and nice looking, so Finder is almost there, but not quite. I just wish I had those three features, then I'd be quite happy. (Cut, Address Bar, Sort By)

 

[gekko513]

I somewhat understand the cut and order by complaints, but I think they are a bit nitpicky. I'd certainly not call them advanced features, just features that can be accomplished in another way than some people like.

A preference option for an address bar, or at least for showing the entire path in the title would be nice, though.

 

[Evangelion]

I'll just let John Siracusa do the talking:

About the Finder...
Mac OS X 10.3 Panther: Same As It Ever Was
Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger: The Finder (not really) revisited

A good quote:

That leads to the final pillar of Mac OS X Finder dissatisfaction. It's the little things. Little annoyances are easy to forgive in a version 1.0 product, and this is a valid label for original Mac OS X Finder. But when these little annoyances persist over four years of development despite the relative trivialness of their solutions, people start to get pissed off.

and

And speaking of prioritizing bugs, it's not as if these little things have been slipping through the cracks because Apple has been busy adding big new features to the Finder in every major release. Instead, the Finder remains essentially unchanged from release to release (excepting perhaps the integration of whatever new Mac OS X feature actually did get attention this time around) and the little things don't get fixed. Remember, this is over four years of development.

 

[smwatson]

I managed to get around the problem of not having a location bar by putting my most important folder (documents) in the right hand partition of the dock. Then you can just right click to explore it, and left click to open a particular file/folder within it. Much quicker IMO.

 

[dav]

Why oh why can I not have folders at the top of my columns and THEN the files?

I end up putting underscores before most folder names just to get this.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Yes, they are. The Cut command was not left out by accident. Copy works. Paste works. Every other app has a Cut command. The Finder doesn't, because it's too dangerous.

Same reason the Finder doesn't have a "Delete" command (or shortcut.)

Cmd+Del will most a file to the trash.[/QUOTE]


Now, for problems with the finder....
This is one area that XP got it right. I miss all the little things I could do, such as right click on an image>resize to resize any jpg image, or right click >> newtemplate and have a new template.

The ability to see what "music" folder you're in- on the iPod, or the HDD, or elsewhere, is essential. and still not here yet.

Cut? Copy? Paste? Uh....I dunno, I seem to remember using those commands on Windows 3.1, so it's not like it's anything new!

It also looks damn ugly. The rest of the finder is all nice and aquafied, while finder is just like "damn, here I am- Everyone must use me because you have no alternative" F****n annoying!

FTP support would be better, but I have my cyberducky. But better networking support would go over wll with me

 

[Evangelion]

It also looks damn ugly. The rest of the finder is all nice and aquafied, while finder is just like "damn, here I am- Everyone must use me because you have no alternative" F****n annoying!

Pathfinder

 

[theBB]

Why oh why can I not have folders at the top of my columns and THEN the files?

I end up putting underscores before most folder names just to get this.

"Sort by Type" works well for me for that.

 

[dav]

"Sort by Type" works well for me for that.

Yes, but I would much like it to just be folder in alphabetical order, and the files in alphabetical order (regardless of extension)

Much like XP is.

 

[theBB]

Yes, but I would much like it to just be folder in alphabetical order, and the files in alphabetical order (regardless of extension)

Much like XP is.

Yeah, I know what you mean, but that's the best I could do.

 

[OldCorpse]

I just hate the whole Finder concept. Maybe I'm the only one, but I like the option of seeing the entire tree structure *at a glance*... XP got that part right, at least for me. I like the fact that I can see where a folder/file is at a glance without having to open 55 panes as in Finder. I guess the idea is that with Spotlight you don't have to know where a file is, but I find that unconvincing for a variety of reasons... not the least of which is that I'm one of those unlucky folks for whom Spotlight is simply useless. It can never find any file I search for with sl. I've read of other people having this problem, and it's frustrating: after finally finding it yourself, you stare at it, and wonder "WHY can't Spotlight find it???". Re-indexing fixes nothing. Back on topic: I find Finder opaque and good at hiding stuff, but of little help in organizing data or finding folders/files.