3870 - No drivers for Leopard???

[pprior]

I just reinstalled leopard to try and deal with some aperture slowdown issues (long story). Since I no longer have my x1900 in place I just installed with the 3870 running. I have only single monitor support out of the box.

It would appear I -have- to install the ATI driver disk. So I'm thinking I'll just check on the ATI site to make sure there is no updated/newer driver.

THERE IS NO DRIVER ON THE ENTIRE SITE!

WTF.

I went through the mac section - no drivers, just pitiful card info. I went into the driver section - nothing other than 10.4 drivers.

Why in the world are there no drivers for this product available for download? Is that just to keep people from flashing a stock card?

I guess I'll install my old disk, but this was very irritating.

Did I just miss them?

 

[Minocan]

http://rapidshare.com/files/139508437/ATI_RADEON_HD_3870_Installer.app.zip.html

This might help I suppose

 

[kahine]

Nvidia has no drivers on theirs either , thought that was common for video cards , have never downloaded a driver for a Mac video card separately

There's a CD that comes with the 3870 and its only been out a month or two , not sure why you dont want to use that driver , or are you saying you dont have a CD with the drivers on it , they dont update/change video drivers for the Mac very often

 

[pwn247]

It is a bit aggravating- not being able to get drivers for Mac. I'm also a bit disappointed that Nvidia nor ATi has put out any 'Control Panels'. With all these hardware performance features coming in Snow Leopard, I hope to see GPU control panels for each vendor available to us Mac guys.

 

[pprior]

Nvidia has no drivers on theirs either , thought that was common for video cards , have never downloaded a driver for a Mac video card separately

There's a CD that comes with the 3870 and its only been out a month or two , not sure why you dont want to use that driver , or are you saying you dont have a CD with the drivers on it , they dont update/change video drivers for the Mac very often

Well when you insert that CD it specifically tells you to go to the ATI site to check for updated drivers. And when you go there, there is NOTHING.

I do have the original CD, I just found it incredibly annoying to spend all that time and find drivers for everything else EXCEPT leopard on the ATI site. It's kind of a poke in the eye, if you understand my meaning.

 

[jazz1]

Where are the 10.5.5 OSX 3870 Updates???

Well when you insert that CD it specifically tells you to go to the ATI site to check for updated drivers. And when you go there, there is NOTHING.

I do have the original CD, I just found it incredibly annoying to spend all that time and find drivers for everything else EXCEPT leopard on the ATI site. It's kind of a poke in the eye, if you understand my meaning.

I've just ordered a 3870 from OWC. Is this the right place to look for updates of the drivers?

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/mac/macosx10-4x-3x-radeon.html

It looks like they are stuck on 10.4X. Am I looking in the wrong place are is ATI still behind as I've got 10.5.5 OSX.

I don't know is this just the usual "welcome to the world of Mac Graphics cards"? I don't suppose Apple's System Prefs. Updates takes care of this does it?

 

[velocityg4]

Updated video card drivers are usually included with the Mac OS X updates from Apple, as are other hardware drivers. Apple may not be including them yet with 10.5.5 but will probably have updated ones for the 3870 with 10.5.6.

As for ATI not having updates and only driver for 10.4. ATI probably is not bothering with posting updated drivers for 10.5 since Apple is likely already planning it. As for 10.4 Apple likely will not include drivers for hardware newer than a legacy OS that no longer fills their coffers.

 

[jazz1]

Updated video card drivers are usually included with the Mac OS X updates from Apple, as are other hardware drivers. Apple may not be including them yet with 10.5.5 but will probably have updated ones for the 3870 with 10.5.6.

As for ATI not having updates and only driver for 10.4. ATI probably is not bothering with posting updated drivers for 10.5 since Apple is likely already planning it. As for 10.4 Apple likely will not include drivers for hardware newer than a legacy OS that no longer fills their coffers.

Well I guess I'm back to plan "A" and follow the instructions in the manual (when it arrives) by installing the drivers on the CD provided. Here's hoping they are not so outdated that the 10.5.5 blows up. I assume then if System Prefs. update from Apple has something newer to download I'll get it.

I kind of remember this "chicken or egg" scenario, on drivers, after upgrading my G4 Dual 500 and Dual 1.25 to ATI aftermarket graphics cards. I even remember there were some gaps that caused issues with existing drivers as Apple upgraded the OS. Hopefully that won't happen anymore.

I hope this 3870 (on my MacPro 2.66) gives me more of a relative performance boost than the upgrades I did on my G4's. I'm looking for everyday performance boots as I understand the 3870 is not the fastest gaming card.

Thanks for everyones help!

 

[Sun Baked]

Updated video card drivers are usually included with the Mac OS X updates from Apple, as are other hardware drivers. Apple may not be including them yet with 10.5.5 but will probably have updated ones for the 3870 with 10.5.6.

Apple usually includes the OEM drivers with the OS, the ATI/Nvidia Retail edition cards usually had control panels and updates on the respective sites.

Even if the OEM and Retail were similar enough for the OS updates to work, the site used to keep the control panels updated -- since the OEM cards weren't supported for the extra retail features.

Though it likely would be nice if Apple included at least a minimal retail driver set to make booting with the cards easier to use with the Restore DVDs.

 

[jazz1]

Apple usually includes the OEM drivers with the OS, the ATI/Nvidia Retail edition cards usually had control panels and updates on the respective sites.

Even if the OEM and Retail were similar enough for the OS updates to work, the site used to keep the control panels updated -- since the OEM cards weren't supported for the extra retail features.

Though it likely would be nice if Apple included at least a minimal retail driver set to make booting with the cards easier to use with the Restore DVDs.

So, even more reason to use the CD install to get the extra features via control panels. I have used ATI retails cards in Macs, but I've always found the ATI WWW site kind of lacking regarding Mac support. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place for support, and information on Mac products? Thanks for the insight regarding the difference between OEM and retail cards.

 

[nanofrog]

Updated video card drivers are usually included with the Mac OS X updates from Apple...

This is my understanding as well.

 

[apfhex]

So, even more reason to use the CD install to get the extra features via control panels. I have used ATI retails cards in Macs, but I've always found the ATI WWW site kind of lacking regarding Mac support.

There's not ATI control panel for OS X though, just the drivers. I understand the OPs frustration that ATI basically ignores the existence of this card with absolutely no mention of it on their site (and very little mention of any Mac products at all), but using the driver CD that came with it is what you should do. I do expect updates will come with future OS X updates.

 

[AdiosVista]

I've read similar threads about the 3870 and, being new to Mac, I apologize if the answer is obvious but I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. I currently have the 2600 ATI in my recent Mac Pro and want to upgrade to a 3870 ordered from OWC. I'm concerned about re-installing Leopard with the 3870 installed in the machine, as this thread points out. What exactly happens? Leopard doesn't recognize the 3870? Do the latest Leopard updates include the drivers for the 3870 as well?

 

[nanofrog]

I've read similar threads about the 3870 and, being new to Mac, I apologize if the answer is obvious but I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. I currently have the 2600 ATI in my recent Mac Pro and want to upgrade to a 3870 ordered from OWC. I'm concerned about re-installing Leopard with the 3870 installed in the machine, as this thread points out. What exactly happens? Leopard doesn't recognize the 3870? Do the latest Leopard updates include the drivers for the 3870 as well?

No 3870 drivers exist on the installation disks that came with your machine. So you would want to keep the 2600 in case you need to reinstall OS X from scratch.

Hopefully, this will change with the release of Snow Leopard.

 

[kahine]

No 3870 drivers exist on the installation disks that came with your machine. So you would want to keep the 2600 in case you need to reinstall OS X from scratch.

Hopefully, this will change with the release of Snow Leopard.

I'm not sure I see the problem with leopard and the 3870

I've reinstalled Leopard from scratch many times fine with the 3870 - it works fine during the install , then you simply use the CD once installed that came with the card to update to fully functional drivers

But it works perfectly fine during the install , only issue in only single monitor support until you use the drivers from the CD , but who actually needs multi monitor support during the install

 

[m1stake]

It is a bit aggravating- not being able to get drivers for Mac. I'm also a bit disappointed that Nvidia nor ATi has put out any 'Control Panels'. With all these hardware performance features coming in Snow Leopard, I hope to see GPU control panels for each vendor available to us Mac guys.

The control panels provided by both companies are poor in my opinion. Overclock the hardware to a stable setting in windows and edit the ROM to reflect whatever speed you were able to get to. Avoid Ntune and ATI tool entirely. Software overclocking is a pain.

 

[nanofrog]

I'm not sure I see the problem with leopard and the 3870

I've reinstalled Leopard from scratch many times fine with the 3870 - it works fine during the install , then you simply use the CD once installed that came with the card to update to fully functional drivers

But it works perfectly fine during the install , only issue in only single monitor support until you use the drivers from the CD , but who actually needs multi monitor support during the install

Good to know.

Other members have reported problems with trying to install from the disks with the 3870 though.

Perhaps it's due to the age of the Mac Pro (pre 3870 release) and the included disks?

Though keeping the 2600 might be considered if the Apple Care is still active.

 

[AdiosVista]

Though keeping the 2600 might be considered if the Apple Care is still active.

When I bought my Mac Pro from a local apple retail store, they told me that upgrades like video card, ram, or hard drives would not void warranty or apple care. They had a term for those kind of DIY upgrades, can't remember exactly what they called it though.

 

[m1stake]

When I bought my Mac Pro from a local apple retail store, they told me that upgrades like video card, ram, or hard drives would not void warranty or apple care. They had a term for those kind of DIY upgrades, can't remember exactly what they called it though.

Apple Care occasionally sends someones computer back with 2GB of RAM when it came in with 10GB, stuff like that. Many people like to keep whatever they bought the machine with to avoid such a problem.

 

[nanofrog]

When I bought my Mac Pro from a local apple retail store, they told me that upgrades like video card, ram, or hard drives would not void warranty or apple care. They had a term for those kind of DIY upgrades, can't remember exactly what they called it though.

No, it's not about voiding the warranty.
See m1stake's post.

 

[AdiosVista]

Apple Care occasionally sends someones computer back with 2GB of RAM when it came in with 10GB, stuff like that. Many people like to keep whatever they bought the machine with to avoid such a problem.

Ah, I see. I do have OWC Ram now and will (hopefully) have a better video card soon. Good to know, thanks. I was originally sold on the 3870's performance but after this discussion, I'm leaning toward the 8800 since it seems to be better integrated into the OS as far as drivers on the new Mac Pros. Now if only Apple didn't charge $100 more than the same card costs for a PC

 

[nanofrog]

I was originally sold on the 3870's performance but after this discussion, I'm leaning toward the 8800 since it seems to be better integrated into the OS as far as drivers on the new Mac Pros. Now if only Apple didn't charge $100 more than the same card costs for a PC

The 3870 does better at Core Image, and the 8800 has a slight advantage for gaming. ATI's drivers are better written for Mac than those for the nVidia cards. People have been waiting for some time for this to be solved, and some incremental improvements have been made, but not to the degree they should.

Check out barefeats.com for the 3870 vs. 8800.
Core Image
Gaming

Hope this helps.

 

[AdiosVista]

The 3870 does better at Core Image, and the 8800 has a slight advantage for gaming. ATI's drivers are better written for Mac than those for the nVidia cards. People have been waiting for some time for this to be solved, and some incremental improvements have been made, but not to the degree they should.

Check out barefeats.com for the 3870 vs. 8800.
Core Image
Gaming

Hope this helps.

I definitely agree the 3870 is a better card all-around, no doubt about it. What I'm learning from this thread though is that the 8800GT seems to be "accepted" by the Mac Pro better, meaning you could do things like re-install Leopard without any issues. I checked out the barefeats comparison earlier and while the 3870 does perform better, I didn't think the differences were that huge considering I don't do video or use a lot of core programs other than Photoshop. My main goal with the new card is better gaming in Windows, which the 8800GT looks to be better at. Either card would probably do just fine for me but as I said, now that I'm reading the compatibility with the current Mac Pros and Leopard seems to favor the 8800GT, I'm leaning that way. I'd like to think it's worth waiting for the 48XX ATI cards to become available but no one knows when that will happen and Apple will again slap on at least another $100, which would probably put that card out of my price range.

 

[nanofrog]

I definitely agree the 3870 is a better card all-around, no doubt about it. What I'm learning from this thread though is that the 8800GT seems to be "accepted" by the Mac Pro better, meaning you could do things like re-install Leopard without any issues. I checked out the barefeats comparison earlier and while the 3870 does perform better, I didn't think the differences were that huge considering I don't do video or use a lot of core programs other than Photoshop. My main goal with the new card is better gaming in Windows, which the 8800GT looks to be better at. Either card would probably do just fine for me but as I said, now that I'm reading the compatibility with the current Mac Pros and Leopard seems to favor the 8800GT, I'm leaning that way. I'd like to think it's worth waiting for the 48XX ATI cards to become available but no one knows when that will happen and Apple will again slap on at least another $100, which would probably put that card out of my price range.

I understand to some extent, but I don't think it that much hassle to physically swap the graphics card during a full install. So if you'd prefer the 3870, I'd say get it.

Besides, according to kahine's post, this may not even apply. My suspicion is it falls to the age of your machine (build version of install disks).

As for the 4870, it will obviously be more expensive. I wish this wasn't the case, but Mac cards are a niche market unfortunately, and we have to pay to play.

 

[velocityg4]

I definitely agree the 3870 is a better card all-around, no doubt about it. What I'm learning from this thread though is that the 8800GT seems to be "accepted" by the Mac Pro better, meaning you could do things like re-install Leopard without any issues. I checked out the barefeats comparison earlier and while the 3870 does perform better, I didn't think the differences were that huge considering I don't do video or use a lot of core programs other than Photoshop. My main goal with the new card is better gaming in Windows, which the 8800GT looks to be better at. Either card would probably do just fine for me but as I said, now that I'm reading the compatibility with the current Mac Pros and Leopard seems to favor the 8800GT, I'm leaning that way. I'd like to think it's worth waiting for the 48XX ATI cards to become available but no one knows when that will happen and Apple will again slap on at least another $100, which would probably put that card out of my price range.

I would not worry about Leopard reinstall issues. At worst you will not have core image, quartz extreme support and be stuck at 800x600 resolution until you installed the drivers for the 3870.