5S Post-launch

[td1439]

So what do people think will happen with the 5S once the 6 launches? My wife and I are due for an upgrade in September when our contracts expire. We currently have 4S's that we got after the 5 launched. Barring some mind-blowing new feature on the 6, I don't have any reason to pay $200 for a phone. However, I'm also concerned they are going to convert the 5S to a plastic model (...the 5SC? I dunno), and I have zero interest in a plastic iPhone. I've been looking around for any rumors or leaks on the matter, but no luck.

 

[madsci954]

We won't know the 5S's fate for sure until the 6 is announced.

 

[td1439]

We won't know the 5S's fate for sure until the 6 is announced.

I know. Just curious about opinions or any news/leaks people might have heard.

 

[eyoungren]

Just because Apple discontinued the iPhone 5 in favor of the 5c when the 5c and 5s were launched did not automatically mean that you were instantly unable to purchase an iPhone 5.

Assuming for the sake of discussion only, that Apple does the same with the 5s and discontinues it, that doesn't mean you won't be able to go buy a 5s somewhere if that's what you want.

 

[12vElectronics]

Just because Apple discontinued the iPhone 5 in favor of the 5c when the 5c and 5s were launched did not automatically mean that you were instantly unable to purchase an iPhone 5.

Assuming for the sake of discussion only, that Apple does the same with the 5s and discontinues it, that doesn't mean you won't be able to go buy a 5s somewhere if that's what you want.

Makes a good point.

 

[Woochifer]

Apple can really go either way on this.

I always felt that the 5c was purely a supply chain move to maximize the 5s supply at launch by not having the mid-tier model share a common production bottleneck with the CNC-machined aluminum shell. Going to the plastic shell and stamped steel internal frames saved money AND time, so migrating the 5s over to a "6c" would not surprise me.

However, given that the 5s will not share a common outer shell with the rumored iPhone 6, the production rationale for discontinuing the 5s does not exist the way it did with the iPhone 5.

 

[td1439]

Apple can really go either way on this.

I always felt that the 5c was purely a supply chain move to maximize the 5s supply at launch by not having the mid-tier model share a common production bottleneck with the CNC-machined aluminum shell. Going to the plastic shell and stamped steel internal frames saved money AND time, so migrating the 5s over to a "6c" would not surprise me.

However, given that the 5s will not share a common outer shell with the rumored iPhone 6, the production rationale for discontinuing the 5s does not exist the way it did with the iPhone 5.

Good point.

 

[Tthomas612]

Why does people think the 5s will be discontinued? They did it one time. Only reason was because of the minimal differences! I believe Apple was afraid the 5 would take away from the 5s sales

 

[sunking101]

Why does people think the 5s will be discontinued? They did it one time. Only reason was because of the minimal differences! I believe Apple was afraid the 5 would take away from the 5s sales

That's very plausible.

 

[1981d]

My local grocery chain (HEB) was selling the iPhone 5 for many months after the 5s release. So was radio shack I believe.

 

[Woochifer]

Why does people think the 5s will be discontinued? They did it one time. Only reason was because of the minimal differences! I believe Apple was afraid the 5 would take away from the 5s sales

So, why didn't Apple discontinue the 4 when the 4s came out, or discontinue the 3g when the 3gs came out? Since those models also primarily featured spec bumps (i.e.,"minimal differences") why didn't Apple fear taking away sales from the "s" models in that instances?

The aluminum shell on the iPhone 5/5s was a well-known production bottleneck because of its time-consuming CNC machining. Continuing to share that part between the 5 and 5s would have required greatly expanding the CNC machining capacity, and potentially constraining supply on either the 5 or 5s during the crucial launch quarter.

The 5c went to molded plastic (with some CNC machining for the attachment points) and stamped steel, which reduced the production time and bumped up the margins. Considering that Tim Cook is one of the foremost supply chain and operations gurus in the business, this kind of move would fall totally into his area of expertise. That Apple could pitch the 5c as a "new" model was just another side benefit for them.

 

[Tthomas612]

So, why didn't Apple discontinue the 4 when the 4s came out, or discontinue the 3g when the 3gs came out? Since those models also primarily featured spec bumps (i.e.,"minimal differences") why didn't Apple fear taking away sales from the "s" models in that instances?

The aluminum shell on the iPhone 5/5s was a well-known production bottleneck because of its time-consuming CNC machining. Continuing to share that part between the 5 and 5s would have required greatly expanding the CNC machining capacity, and potentially constraining supply on either the 5 or 5s during the crucial launch quarter.

The 5c went to molded plastic (with some CNC machining for the attachment points) and stamped steel, which reduced the production time and bumped up the margins. Considering that Tim Cook is one of the foremost supply chain and operations gurus in the business, this kind of move would fall totally into his area of expertise. That Apple could pitch the 5c as a "new" model was just another side benefit for them.

I knew someone was going to say this. I just did. Honestly I can't answer this question. However I do believe that this was one of the main reasons behind the 5 getting discontinued. That along with the fact that they couldn't get the aluminum chipping fixed. The 5s has held up much better in that regard.

My whole point is this ... The 5s is not getting put into a plastic shell. If it were we would have seen leeks by now. Just as we did last year. We knew months before that the 5 was getting discontinued as it was reported by many analysts. This year there's no such rumor. If there is another "c" model it will be next year

 

[Woochifer]

I knew someone was going to say this. I just did. Honestly I can't answer this question. However I do believe that this was one of the main reasons behind the 5 getting discontinued. That along with the fact that they couldn't get the aluminum chipping fixed. The 5s has held up much better in that regard.

My whole point is this ... The 5s is not getting put into a plastic shell. If it were we would have seen leeks by now. Just as we did last year. We knew months before that the 5 was getting discontinued as it was reported by many analysts. This year there's no such rumor. If there is another "c" model it will be next year

The aluminum chipping is still an issue, but Apple made it less prominent by swapping the black color out for space gray. Making all of the chamfered edges light in color makes any scratches less visible.

As far as the plastic shell goes, any leaks would not mean anything, since it would be relatively simple to swap the 5s internals into the 5c body. I'm not sure if Apple would actually do this, given that the production bottlenecks with the 5/5s are not an issue for this cycle.

I never read any rumors about the 5 getting discontinued. If anything, the speculation was more about the 5c serving as the entry level model for developing markets, which would have meant replacing the 4s (which made sense from a supply chain POV, because it would have phased out the 30-pin connector from the iPhone line one year sooner). I recall most people being surprised that the 5c was only a $100 reduction from the 5s.

 

[Tthomas612]

The aluminum chipping is still an issue, but Apple made it less prominent by swapping the black color out for space gray. Making all of the chamfered edges light in color makes any scratches less visible.

As far as the plastic shell goes, any leaks would not mean anything, since it would be relatively simple to swap the 5s internals into the 5c body. I'm not sure if Apple would actually do this, given that the production bottlenecks with the 5/5s are not an issue for this cycle.

I never read any rumors about the 5 getting discontinued. If anything, the speculation was more about the 5c serving as the entry level model for developing markets, which would have meant replacing the 4s (which made sense from a supply chain POV, because it would have phased out the 30-pin connector from the iPhone line one year sooner). I recall most people being surprised that the 5c was only a $100 reduction from the 5s.

Yes, most of this is true. I guess they could've started making the 5 in Space Gray to solve the issue. However before the keynote last year I told people in my posts the. 5 was being discontinued. Honestly I don't remember where I read it I just know it was after we found out the 5c was gonna have the 5's internals

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The aluminum chipping is still an issue, but Apple made it less prominent by swapping the black color out for space gray. Making all of the chamfered edges light in color makes any scratches less visible.

As far as the plastic shell goes, any leaks would not mean anything, since it would be relatively simple to swap the 5s internals into the 5c body. I'm not sure if Apple would actually do this, given that the production bottlenecks with the 5/5s are not an issue for this cycle.

I never read any rumors about the 5 getting discontinued. If anything, the speculation was more about the 5c serving as the entry level model for developing markets, which would have meant replacing the 4s (which made sense from a supply chain POV, because it would have phased out the 30-pin connector from the iPhone line one year sooner). I recall most people being surprised that the 5c was only a $100 reduction from the 5s.

Also, if it were just that easy to take the internals of a 5s and put them into a 5c then people would be doing it. I realize it would be easier for Apple to do this, but that brings another ? Why would they take insides of a 5s and put it into the exact same shell of the 5c... That's been out for a year. Why wouldn't they just redesign? Or just sale the 5c as is right now and the 5s as is right now. Then introduce the 4.7" as an iPhone. I still believe the 5.5" will be a different product line altogether.

 

[td1439]

I never read any rumors about the 5 getting discontinued. If anything, the speculation was more about the 5c serving as the entry level model for developing markets, which would have meant replacing the 4s (which made sense from a supply chain POV, because it would have phased out the 30-pin connector from the iPhone line one year sooner). I recall most people being surprised that the 5c was only a $100 reduction from the 5s.

Yeah, I remember what a surprise the decision to stop selling the 5 was. I can see why they did it now. But if they put the 5S in a plastic shell, where does that leave the 5C? I can't see anyone paying $100 for a plastic phone that is a minimal upgrade from the 5C. And while they're allowed to sell whichever phones they want, I'd be surprised to see them depart from the $200/$100/free price structure. Hopefully the reduced demand for the 5S will mean they are still willing to sell it as it is right now. We'll see what September brings I guess.

 

[chupachup]

The perfect phone would be the NEW iPhone 5c with 5s internals, plastic and a 2,000 mAh battery. I would get that and sell my G2.

 

[Woochifer]

Also, if it were just that easy to take the internals of a 5s and put them into a 5c then people would be doing it. I realize it would be easier for Apple to do this, but that brings another ? Why would they take insides of a 5s and put it into the exact same shell of the 5c... That's been out for a year. Why wouldn't they just redesign? Or just sale the 5c as is right now and the 5s as is right now. Then introduce the 4.7" as an iPhone. I still believe the 5.5" will be a different product line altogether.

It would be easy for Apple, not necessarily for an end user. The CNC machining on the 5c only entails carving and drilling out the attachment points for the internals. IIRC, the main boards for the 5 and 5s are similar, but not exactly the same. Some adaptation would be needed.

Presumably, this would only require design changes to the stamped steel internal frames. They could even keep the same attachment points on the shell itself, but the frame would be different from the one used in the 5c. Someone could pull the boards out of a 5s and try to fit it inside of a 5c. But, I don't think it would fit the frame, and why would someone want to do that to begin with?

The reason Apple would potentially do this is the same as why the created the 5c in the first place: lower BOM cost and less production time (i.e., higher margin). Call the new plastic bodied phone the "6c" and keep the "5c" as the entry level model. Not saying this will happen, or that it's even likely. Just pointing out how and why Apple would do it.

 

[Woochifer]

Yeah, I remember what a surprise the decision to stop selling the 5 was. I can see why they did it now. But if they put the 5S in a plastic shell, where does that leave the 5C? I can't see anyone paying $100 for a plastic phone that is a minimal upgrade from the 5C. And while they're allowed to sell whichever phones they want, I'd be surprised to see them depart from the $200/$100/free price structure. Hopefully the reduced demand for the 5S will mean they are still willing to sell it as it is right now. We'll see what September brings I guess.

Just pushes the 5c down into the entry level price point. But, the real strategic value of the 5c could be in developing markets, depending on how far Apple is willing to push the price point. As I pointed above, it would not be too much of a stretch for Apple to simply move the 5s internals into the 5c shell and call it the "6c" while still keeping the 5c as the entry level model. I doubt that it will happen, because I can see two plastic bodied iPhones cannibalizing each other more than keeping the 5s would cut into iPhone 6 sales.

 

[Tthomas612]

It would be easy for Apple, not necessarily for an end user. The CNC machining on the 5c only entails carving and drilling out the attachment points for the internals. IIRC, the main boards for the 5 and 5s are similar, but not exactly the same. Some adaptation would be needed.

Presumably, this would only require design changes to the stamped steel internal frames. They could even keep the same attachment points on the shell itself, but the frame would be different from the one used in the 5c. Someone could pull the boards out of a 5s and try to fit it inside of a 5c. But, I don't think it would fit the frame, and why would someone want to do that to begin with?

The reason Apple would potentially do this is the same as why the created the 5c in the first place: lower BOM cost and less production time (i.e., higher margin). Call the new plastic bodied phone the "6c" and keep the "5c" as the entry level model. Not saying this will happen, or that it's even likely. Just pointing out how and why Apple would do it.

I do agree with you on all points. We know that Apple created the 5c because of better profit margin. Which is one of the reasons the 5 was discontinued so soon. I personally like the "5" series iPhone, but if the 5s does get discontinued this fall... Do you think it's Apple's way of saying they believe there's a problem with the design?

Personally I don't think the 5s is going anywhere. I don't think it's getting redesigned. I think it will look just the way it looks now except it will no longer be the flagship. Hell, to be honest with you I may keep my 5s if the 6 looks the way all these leaks do.

BTW, if you are interested in reading about the 5 being discontinued from July of 2013 just go and search in Google. There's plenty on there about it. So as early as July of 2013 the rumor was floating around of the 5 being discontinued.