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H. Flower

macrumors 6502a
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Jul 23, 2008
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With rumors of the M4 chip extreme being cancelled, are you still going to get the new Mac Pro (IF one is released?), or are you going to bite the bullet and switch to the Studio? Or just stick with Intel?

With Thunderbolt 5 speeds matching my internal RAID nvme, the Studio is now looking more tempting.

Then again, it sort of dawned on me: why would I want a small PC like the studio, surrounded by several cables and enclosures? Isn't that getting us back to the messy "octopus" trashcan design? Isnt just one enclosure with everything inside more elegant? It is, but what price is that neatness worth? AN extra 3,000 dollars?

Just wondering what other 7,1 users are thinking as we head into a year of pro updates.
 
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I’m getting the M4 studio. I’d prefer to wait a while longer but there’s enough stuff with no/poor support for intel now that I don’t think I can.
 
My 2019 is still powerful as ever. Best machine I've had, period. I've usually been on a 6 year upgrade cycle so I think I'm good for at least another year or more.
Yeah, they are still really great computers.

Im in video and motion graphics, and as far as video goes, the 7,1 still meets my needs. The only reason I'm switching to M4 is for graphics (After Effects and Cinema 4D), which I think should see a significant boost by the M chips.
 
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I’m getting the M4 studio. I’d prefer to wait a while longer but there’s enough stuff with no/poor support for intel now that I don’t think I can.
The studio will be mighty enticing for sure...

Really crossing my fingers for a 5k 30 inch studio display at a reasonable price.
 
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How can a rumoured extreme chip be cancelled? Apple never made a M* extreme chip, right?
In any case, I am happy with my 7.1s
They've never made it. But according to rumor, they were planning and/or this time around with the M4, but ultimately cancelled it.
 
They've never made it. But according to rumor, they were planning and/or this time around with the M4, but ultimately cancelled it.

This sounds like the other topic where 75 people said they were buying the non-existent M3 Studio.

I’m happy with my two 2019 Mac Pros which are as fast as ever but the replacement for those will be PC workstations which are much more capable. Dual Xeons, four modern NVidia GPUs, etc.

Apple no longer has me as a customer.

Apple might as well drop the studio and Mac Pro and focus on laptops, iDevices and Mac mini. Both are already somewhat older.
 
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Yeah, they are still really great computers.

Im in video and motion graphics, and as far as video goes, the 7,1 still meets my needs. The only reason I'm switching to M4 is for graphics (After Effects and Cinema 4D), which I think should see a significant boost by the M chips.
I hear ya. I just can't stand everything external. I have enough external stuff as it is, the more I can have inside my machine the better. I will gladly wait and drop $10k on the next MacPro whenever that is.
 
I love my 2019 with a bunch of upgrades but when I get home to my M3 Max MBP everything just feels so instant and fast which makes me realise how little is optimised for intel chips these days.
 
I love my 2019 with a bunch of upgrades but when I get home to my M3 Max MBP everything just feels so instant and fast which makes me realise how little is optimised for intel chips these days.

People keep saying this, but what is instant and fast on the M3 as compared to the Xeon?
 
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The Mac Pro 7.1, in hindsight, was the worst hardware investment I’ve made in my 35 years of working with Apple products. For the past two years, I’ve been using a Mac Studio M2 Ultra—a fantastic machine that outperforms the Mac Pro with a 16-core Xeon processor and two Radeon RX 6900 XT cards in most tasks. A few notes regarding this opinion:

1. Apple abandoned me—I couldn’t upgrade the GPU to newer models.

2. Issues with NVMe drives—they appeared and disappeared randomly for nearly a year. Once again, Apple abandoned me.

3. The purchase-to-resale price ratio is a nightmare. Previous generations of desktop computers, which I replaced every 3-4 years, always had good resale value. Models like the 9500, 9600, G3, G4, G5, and various Mac Pros had a solid market with buyers interested in used machines. Now, it’s a disaster. :(

4. And finally, power consumption. For the past two years, I’ve been using both machines—the Studio and the 7.1. Even now, they render simultaneously. The Studio consumes 140–160W, while the Mac Pro uses anywhere from 780 to 930W during the same tasks. Over the course of a year, with heavy workloads, this adds up to a significant amount of money.

5. External enclosures for drives and PCI cards don’t matter to me—I can arrange everything quite neatly.

6. Oh, and one more thing—the Mac Studio (even with the additional enclosures) is quieter! :)

I’m planning to sell my Mac Pro 7.1 this year and use the (likely modest) proceeds to invest in a Mac Studio Ultra. I won’t part with it reluctantly.
 
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1. Apple abandoned me—I couldn’t upgrade the GPU to newer models.

This I agree with, we were stuck with hard to find and mega expensive MPX modules that cannot be found new anymore or out of date 3rd party equivalent GPUs unless we want to abandon macOS and use windows. And then we can have whatever we want of newer GPUs provided they physically fit.

It’s why I won’t replace the two Mac pros with another Apple machine.
 
I’m bit torn about upgrading to a new M model, assuming a new one is coming out this year. Unless M4 is substantially better than my 2019 Mac Pro, I probably won’t consider it. I mean, it’s not like Apple Silicon Mac Pros have external GPU support either.

Aside from that, I’m also using my Mac Pro to do any windows exclusive tasks (including some gaming), if there are any.
 
I don't see another Mac Pro in my future. Price has gone up way too much for what they are. My 7,1 has been fully shuffled off into server land now, and I switched over to a fully kitted-out M4 Pro Mini for my actual work, with a direct thunderbolt connection between the two. May upgrade to a Studio when the next one comes out, may not, the mini is pretty great.
 
People keep saying this, but what is instant and fast on the M3 as compared to the Xeon?
As no-one else has answered....X5690 to M1 Pro in my case, rather than 2019 Xeon to a M3/M4 system, but…Pretty much anything, frankly. According to Geekbench (yes, I know, benchmarks, usual caveats, but…) single-core performance of an M1 Pro (16/10 cores) is about 5 times faster than the old cheesegrater, and about 4.5 times faster for multi-core. Compared to a 16-core 2019, it's 1.75 times faster single-core, a mere 17% faster on multi-core. I barely use the 5,1 any more, and when I do it's for gaming on Windows. That single-core performance is what makes the difference much of the time. Responsiveness, in a word. Yes, there are are plenty of tasks where my old thing, let alone a 2019 like yours, can match or beat the newer machine, but the MBP is just so much snappier, all the time, and on lighter tasks it's so much more efficient. I shut my Macs down when not using them, so the boot time advantage is a real boon at times. Handbrake encoding is massively quicker, whether using hardware or software encoders. Even for games that run through Crossover/GPTK run just as well as native Windows on the 5,1... As for graphics, on paper, the RX580 is a match for the M1 Pro…but the latter benefits from everything else in the system being so much faster. And even when the MBP fans spin up, it's still a lot quieter than the 5,1. Though the heat output is handy in a northern hemisphere winter :)
 
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As no-one else has answered....X5690 to M1 Pro in my case, rather than 2019 Xeon to a M3/M4 system, but…Pretty much anything, frankly. According to Geekbench (yes, I know, benchmarks, usual caveats, but…) single-core performance of an M1 Pro (16/10 cores) is about 5 times faster than the old cheesegrater, and about 4.5 times faster for multi-core. Compared to a 16-core 2019, it's 1.75 times faster single-core, a mere 17% faster on multi-core. I barely use the 5,1 any more, and when I do it's for gaming on Windows. That single-core performance is what makes the difference much of the time. Responsiveness, in a word. Yes, there are are plenty of tasks where my old thing, let alone a 2019 like yours, can match or beat the newer machine, but the MBP is just so much snappier, all the time, and on lighter tasks it's so much more efficient. I shut my Macs down when not using them, so the boot time advantage is a real boon at times. Handbrake encoding is massively quicker, whether using hardware or software encoders. Even for games that run through Crossover/GPTK run just as well as native Windows on the 5,1... As for graphics, on paper, the RX580 is a match for the M1 Pro…but the latter benefits from everything else in the system being so much faster. And even when the MBP fans spin up, it's still a lot quieter than the 5,1. Though the heat output is handy in a northern hemisphere winter :)

That doesn't really answer my question, though - I don't use Geekbench to do tasks, so I don't really care what geekbench scores are.

What is responsive, or rather, what was unresponsive on your Intel system, that has changed?

Again, I keep seeing people using the word "snappy" without any qualification, and that says to me this is a psychological thing, where people are convincing themselves something is better / faster, to internally justify their spend.

Like the only thing I think is "slow" on my mac, is Swift Playgrounds, but I wouldn't place that at the feet of it being a Xeon system, I'd say it's because it's a Catalyst app, and ALL catalyst apps are hot garbage, because Catalyst is a terrible technology that lowers the average of Mac software.

Sleep and wake on my system are worse than my old machine - it's 31 seconds for the system to sleep (I restart maybe every 30-40 days - usually only when there's a security update, or if I'm travelling for the weekend), but again, thats not the processor, that's the operating system, and I suspect the sheer number of peripherals I have.
 
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A colleague has a high spec M1 Macbook Pro laptop and my 7,1 is much faster starting up the local development environment of the app we are running. We've both got the same instance running, but mine takes about 1 minute less even just running the startup command from terminal.

Running build commands are much faster on mine as well. The other bit that takes a long time is the initial setup of the environment if you need to setup from scratch, the very first start does a heck of a lot of background preparation work - the 7,1 is much faster for that. You see it running all the cores doing that, same when running build commands.

The only M series Mac I have here is an M2 Macbook Air 15", it can run the same applications we use but it is too slow for that. Once it is running it isn't too bad but starting/stopping the instance or running build commands is far too slow. Expected, but not terrible for what it is (M2, 16gb RAM).

I haven't tried running the 5,1 x5690 for those purposes.

The same work can be done on windows, but it is more clunky. But the hardware in the windows world has the benefit that you aren't locked down to whatever you selected at purchase time. The drawback is the same as for the 7,1, the prices of PC workstations are equally hefty. At most, you can spec a Lenovo PX at AUD$200,000. But that's a crazy specification, dual 60 core Xeons with enormous ram and storage, multiple GPUs as well.
 
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That doesn't really answer my question, though - I don't use Geekbench to do tasks, so I don't really care what geekbench scores are.

What is responsive, or rather, what was unresponsive on your Intel system, that has changed?

Again, I keep seeing people using the word "snappy" without any qualification, and that says to me this is a psychological thing, where people are convincing themselves something is better / faster, to internally justify their spend.

Like the only thing I think is "slow" on my mac, is Swift Playgrounds, but I wouldn't place that at the feet of it being a Xeon system, I'd say it's because it's a Catalyst app, and ALL catalyst apps are hot garbage, because Catalyst is a terrible technology that lowers the average of Mac software.

Sleep and wake on my system are worse than my old machine - it's 31 seconds for the system to sleep (I restart maybe every 30-40 days - usually only when there's a security update, or if I'm travelling for the weekend), but again, thats not the processor, that's the operating system, and I suspect the sheer number of peripherals I have.
First off, as I wrote, usual caveats apply to synthetic benchmarks.
Is the M1 Pro faster in synthetic benchmarks than my 5,1? Yes.
Is it considerably faster in actual real-world tasks, most if not all the time? Yes.
Does it feel faster and more responsive, most if not all the time? Yes. But that feeling is backed up, for me and others, by actual fact.

I never really thought the 5,1 was slow. It can do all the things it can do as fast as it ever did, of course, just like its predecessors (PM 6100/66, G3 beige 266Mhz, G4 MDD dual gig, and my MP 1,1 2.66 quad- still in occasional use, that one). It might boot up a bit quicker if I went to NVMe- but not that much faster than SATA. Gaming, Handbrake encoding, etc, would be a bit improved by a faster GPU, and so on…but that's all into the realms of spending increasingly large sums of money pursuing increasingly marginal gains, on a 14 year old system. For my use, I've got it optimal in terms of cost/benefit. And it is still, much of the time, slower than the MBP. Not just a little bit slower, often massively slower. For example, right now as I'm typing this, I am also encoding a 1080p file in Handbrake, VideoToolbox (so using the media engine), and over 200 fps with 30-35% CPU usage. About double the speed of the 5,1 using the RX580. Still while typing this, switched to software encode, CPU pegged, fan running fast but quieter than the old beast ever is, and it's still as fast as the 5,1 with hardware. Even maxed-out, the 5,1 wouldn't get near a base model M1 (let alone M2 or M4 generations) mini in many tasks. Startup is massively quicker on this MBP, and the system is immediately fully responsive after that, no spinning beachballs (or Windows equivalent). Software updates- even full macOS installs- are rapid. No half-hours watching that progress bar doing a security update, unlike the tower. I can think 'I'll just do that', power this up, do whatever that is, and shut it down again when the old beastie would still be getting itself ready.

You might still be better served by your 7,1 right now, an AN Other system as its replacement…but whatever does takes its place, I'd be very surprised if it didn't feel snappier, regardless of OS. Each of my desktops certainly has…
 
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A colleague has a high spec M1 Macbook Pro laptop and my 7,1 is much faster starting up the local development environment of the app we are running. We've both got the same instance running, but mine takes about 1 minute less even just running the startup command from terminal.

Running build commands are much faster on mine as well. The other bit that takes a long time is the initial setup of the environment if you need to setup from scratch, the very first start does a heck of a lot of background preparation work - the 7,1 is much faster for that. You see it running all the cores doing that, same when running build commands.

The only M series Mac I have here is an M2 Macbook Air 15", it can run the same applications we use but it is too slow for that. Once it is running it isn't too bad but starting/stopping the instance or running build commands is far too slow. Expected, but not terrible for what it is (M2, 16gb RAM).

I haven't tried running the 5,1 x5690 for those purposes.

The same work can be done on windows, but it is more clunky. But the hardware in the windows world has the benefit that you aren't locked down to whatever you selected at purchase time. The drawback is the same as for the 7,1, the prices of PC workstations are equally hefty. At most, you can spec a Lenovo PX at AUD$200,000. But that's a crazy specification, dual 60 core Xeons with enormous ram and storage, multiple GPUs as well.
You're clearly better off with x86, at least for the time being. What do you reckon causes the performance advantage over Apple silicon here- is it software optimisation, GPU (if applicable)…?
 
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You might still be better served by your 7,1 right now, an AN Other system as its replacement…but whatever does takes its place, I'd be very surprised if it didn't feel snappier, regardless of OS. Each of my desktops certainly has…

Yeah, I'm not concerned by a 2010 machine, Vs. whatever is modern, more by AS Vs. (contemporary) Intel specifically.

I still don't get what you mean by "snappy" as an experiential quality of the system - there's nothing on this machine that feels slow, in terms of interacting with things. Some programs are slow to launch, but that seems to be a security thing, not a "this needs more processing power" thing.

I can't think of a single thing* on his system I've done, and felt the computer reacted slower than me.

*Except for in Mac Catalyst apps, like Mona, or Playgrounds.
 
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Yeah, I'm not concerned by a 2010 machine, Vs. whatever is modern, more by AS Vs. (contemporary) Intel specifically.

I still don't get what you mean by "snappy" as an experiential quality of the system - there's nothing on this machine that feels slow, in terms of interacting with things. Some programs are slow to launch, but that seems to be a security thing, not a "this needs more processing power" thing.

I can't think of a single thing* on his system I've done, and felt the computer reacted slower than me.

*Except for in Mac Catalyst apps, like Mona, or Playgrounds.
Well, depending on what you're doing, the difference between AS and contemporary Intel (or at least, 'most recent Mac using Intel', 2024 Intel/AMD alternatives are another matter) can be as dramatic as the difference I've seen. I'm sure you have noticed- or not, depending what you're doing- when you've upgraded, that something, hopefully lots of things, is quicker on the new machine, without needing to time it. You wouldn't upgrade otherwise, right? When you've used that new machine for a while, well, you get used to it, it's not really going to suddenly feel slow until and unless you start pushing it harder, or doing something that you weren't doing before (application/use change, or technology change like moving from HD to 4K to 8K video)- that obviously isn't a like for like comparison, but that's why people upgrade, isn't it?
 
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Well, depending on what you're doing, the difference between AS and contemporary Intel (or at least, 'most recent Mac using Intel', 2024 Intel/AMD alternatives are another matter) can be as dramatic as the difference I've seen. Not being confrontational here, but I'm sure you have noticed- or not, depending what you're doing- when you've upgraded, that something is quicker on the new machine. You wouldn't upgrade otherwise, right? When you've used that new machine for a while, well, you get used to it, it's not really going to suddenly feel slow until and unless you start pushing it harder, or doing something that you weren't doing before (application/use change, or technology change like moving from HD to 4K to 8K video)- but that obviously isn't a like for like comparison.

The slow tasks I do have always been "get a cup of coffee" slow, like rendering 4TB+ panoramic images - but that's doing the work once it's queued up, not the experiential quality of using the machine. Realistically I've never upgraded to do work faster, but to stay compatible with all the devices I do work upon (or because a device physically died).

This is what's always bugged me about claims for the awesomeness of AS GPU power - I don't care how fast it can do GPGPU stuff, AS GPUs are in most cases behind the curve on practical realtime stuff, like multiple display support. Why do I have to buy an Ultra edition Mac, just to support 6 displays, which *any* (intel) Mac with a PCI slot can do.

I'd rather a broader capability that's a bit slower, than a narrower capability that's faster.
 
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