Mac Rumors second official 3.33 Ghz Nehalem 2009 Mac Pro

[kntgsp]

So my Mac Pro FINALLY arrived today after almost 2 weeks. First thing I did of course, was yank out the CPU and replace it with my i7 975.

Really easy, although I would like to note that you can't "over tighten" the heatsink on the Quad as they have IHS and there are bolt gaps on the bottom that prevent the heatsink from being over tightened on top of that.

Also, the heatsink is bolted all the way down from the factory anyway.

I was worried about that at the beginning before I realized and so didn't tighten it all the way (wanted to see what the temps were before over tightening). Low and behold I get a shutdown halfway through startup.

So I yank out the board again, look at the side and realize that SOMEONE *cough cough* forgot to catch that in their CPU replacement guide. ;-) Then I realized "wait a second....they were screwed all the way down when I removed the damn thing" so I tightened them all the way and VOILA. 3.33Ghz Nehalem Mac Pro.

Downloaded SMC Fan Control for a quick glance at temps and idle is around 37C which is fantastic considering my ambient with no A/C

By the way, don't have a heart attack over temp shutdown. Temp sensors on all boards built in the last few years (that aren't bargain crap) have auto shutdown when CPU temp exceeds spec (usually 100C). Doesn't do any permanent damage.


Currently installing all updates, of which there are a crap ton, before opening it up again to install the GTX 285. Have to install the latest OSX update and the NVidia drivers first, so might be a bit.

I'll keep you guys posted and toss up some pics of the naked board later.

 

[bozz2006]

killer!

 

[4God]

Niiiiice!!!!! Could you be a friend and run some Geekbench fun and let us know your scores?

 

[kntgsp]

Niiiiice!!!!! Could you be a friend and run some Geekbench fun and let us know your scores?

Of course. Just let me get the GTX 285 in. Downloading the drivers now and then popping it in. Then just configuring all the website logins, programs, etc.

Also, haven't tossed in my SSDs yet. Going to wait until I get those custom sleds as I'd rather not duct tape a pair of $500 SSDs into my Mac Pro.

 

[zmttoxics]

Going to wait until I get those custom sleds as I'd rather not duct tape a pair of $500 SSDs into my Mac Pro.

Why not?

 

[AppleWorking]

Cool! Show us some pics when you have a chance. I can't wait to do this, but I want the price to come down by half first ($500). Does anyone know around when this will happen for the 975 chip? I just can't see myself dropping another $1k on this thing, already feel crappy enough spending so much on my ssd setup. But hey, who knows, it's hard to resist...

 

[bbadalucco]

Whats the benefit of the i7 975 over the 2.93 xeon quad? Or is it just the faster mhz?

I figured the xeon was better?

 

[kntgsp]

Whats the benefit of the i7 975 over the 2.93 xeon quad? Or is it just the faster mhz?

I figured the xeon was better?

The Xeons that Apple uses in the Quad are somewhat deceptive. The Xeon used in the Quads are the W series, which have the 4.8GT/s QPI and a lower max turbo. Even the 2.93 Ghz (highest option) on the Quads have the 4.8GT/s QPI.

The Octos use the X series with the 6.4GT/s QPI.

The QPI on the i7 975 and older 965 both have a 6.4GT/s QPI and higher turbos.

So the Xeons that are used in both Mac Pros are completely different actually, but Apple "conveniently" makes no mention of it. Now as to whether or not you'd see a difference with the higher QPI, you're better off Googling it, and comparing the benefits to your work needs.

 

[kntgsp]

Gotta find the damn USB cable for my camera, but I'll throw up the pictures eventually. GTX 285 working great so far though.

I have noticed one thing though. SMC in OS X reports say...37°C idle, while in Windows 7 x64, I get somewhere in the 50's idle using both Core Temp and Real Temp. Running Prime95 full stress test, temps seem to flat line in the 80's.

Fan doesn't spin up at all though, stays perfectly silent. So I think the temp readings in Windows are off. Probably reading the sensor wrong in Windows 7, but still worth noting.

The CPU fan is controlled via the board and the built in sensor on the heatsink, and if it got that hot the fans would be spinning like crazy I'd imagine.


EDIT:

Yea the temps in OS X all read the same, whether under SMC, iStat, etc. Idling at 37°C now. Must be the sensor not having a proper write up in Core Temp or Real Temp under Windows. Because I have a hard time believing that the CPU was at 85C in Windows without any fan spin up whatsoever.

Just tested all fans in SMC to make sure they aren't fried.

PCI, PS, EXHAUST, INTAKE, and BOOST A all respond to throttling controls. Has to be something in Windows where the sensor doesn't have a proper driver.

Ran a full blend system stress test in MPrime (OS X version of Prime 95) and never saw temps above mid 50's. Works great!

 

[Eidorian]

So the Xeons that are used in both Mac Pros are completely different actually, but Apple "conveniently" makes no mention of it. Now as to whether or not you'd see a difference with the higher QPI, you're better off Googling it, and comparing the benefits to your work needs.

Apple does state that they're using the Xeon 3500 Series in the single socket and Xeon 5500 Series for the dual one.

 

[kntgsp]

Apple does state that they're using the Xeon 3500 Series in the single socket and Xeon 5500 Series for the dual one.

Not on the online Apple Store. Everything is just listed as Nehalem or Xeon.

Even under "Compare" when you want to see differences between the Quad and Octos, it still makes no mention of it.

 

[gugucom]

The Xeons that Apple uses in the Quad are somewhat deceptive. The Xeon used in the Quads are the W series, which have the 4.8GT/s QPI and a lower max turbo. Even the 2.93 Ghz (highest option) on the Quads have the 4.8GT/s QPI.

The Octos use the X series with the 6.4GT/s QPI.

The QPI on the i7 975 and older 965 both have a 6.4GT/s QPI and higher turbos.

So the Xeons that are used in both Mac Pros are completely different actually, but Apple "conveniently" makes no mention of it. Now as to whether or not you'd see a difference with the higher QPI, you're better off Googling it, and comparing the benefits to your work needs.

The W series has a TDP of 130 W which is right on the ceiling of the Mac Pro design.

The 3500 Xeon

3500-series "Bloomfield"
Bloomfield is the codename for the successor to the Xeon Intel Core microarchitecture, is based on the Nehalem architecture and uses the same 45 nm manufacturing methods as Intel's Penryn. The first processor released with the Nehalem architecture is the desktop Intel Core i7, which was released in November 2008. This is the server version for single CPU systems. This is a single-socket Intel Xeon processor. The performance improvements over previous Xeon processors are based mainly on:
Integrated memory controller supporting 3 Memory Channels of DDR3 UDIMM (Unbuffered) or RDIMM (Registered)
A new point-to-point processor interconnect QuickPath, replacing the legacy front side bus
Simultaneous multithreading by multiple cores and hyperthreading (2x per core).
model Speed (GHz) L3 Cache (MB) QPI speed (GT/s) DDR3 Clock (MHz) TDP (W) Cores Threads Turbo-Boost
W3503 2.40 4 4.8 1066 130 2 2 No
W3505 2.53 4 4.8 1066 130 2 2 No
W3520 2.66 8 4.8 1066 130 4 8 Yes
W3540 2.93 8 4.8 1066 130 4 8 Yes
W3570 3.2 8 6.4 1333 130 4 8 Yes
[edit]

The i7 975 extreme

Processor cores
The clock rates listed here are as specified by Intel for normal mode. "Turbo boost" can increase the rate on active cores in steps of the base clock (133 MHz if not overclocked) up to a predetermined limit for short periods when required, which can be useful with single threaded applications.
The I7-965 XE and I7-975 XE have separate unlocked multipliers for memory and cores.
Core clock above those in the table are not guaranteed by Intel.[4] Rates above 5 GHz have been reported.[citation needed]
Memory rates above those in the table are not guaranteed by Intel.[4] Rates above DDR3-2000 have been reported.[citation needed]
The processor has a Thermal Design Power of 130 W and will slow itself down if this power is exceeded. This feature can be disabled from an option in most of the new motherboards' BIOS.[13]
Prices are Intel's wholesale prices for lots of 1,000 units in USD at product launch.
Core i7
Model[14] nm Cores
(Threads) Clocks (GHz) Multipliers
(x Base) Price
(USD) Cache Memory
controller[2][3][4] QuickPath
Interface Thermal Design Power
[13] Socket Release
date
Core Uncore Base Core Uncore
i7-920 45nm 4
(8) 2.66 2.13 .133 20 16 273 256 KB L2/core
8 MB shared L3 3x DDR3-800/1066 MT/s 1x 4.8 GT/s 130 W LGA 1366 2008-11-17
i7-940 2.93 22 538
i7-950[15] 3.06 23 562 2009-06-03
i7-960[16] 3.2 24 Q4 2009
i7-965 Extreme Edition 3.20 2.66 20 985 1x 6.4 GT/s 2008-11-17
i7-975 Extreme Edition [15][17] 3.33 25 999 2009-06-03

The higher clocks and memory is connected to the extreme edition. If you use a Xeon W3570 you also get the high clocks and QPI.

The W3570 are 1095$ on Ebay.

 

[Eidorian]

Not on the online Apple Store. Everything is just listed as Nehalem or Xeon.

Even under "Compare" when you want to see differences between the Quad and Octos, it still makes no mention of it.

http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html

 

[kntgsp]

http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html

A-HA! So they make you dig for it.

 

[kntgsp]

http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html

The W series has a TDP of 130 W which is right on the ceiling of the Mac Pro design.

Mac Pro has handled higher before. Also, I just ran MPrime (OS X version of Prime95) and was never higher than mid 50's under blend full system stress.

Considering the massive heatsink in the new Mac Pros basically get a whole wind tunnel to themselves, it's not a problem.

 

[Eidorian]

A-HA! So they make you dig for it.

Nothing new from Apple to be honest. They haven't updated the Hardware Developer Note's in ages either. At least for my basic level of access.

The Mac Pro 2009 has some nice massive heatsinks so that's not a worry.

 

[kntgsp]

Nothing new from Apple to be honest. They haven't updated the Hardware Developer Note's in ages either. At least for my basic level of access.

The Mac Pro 2009 has some nice massive heatsinks so that's not a worry.

I really like the design and I've built my own PCs for over a decade. The custom motherboard PCB is nice, with the separation. Isolating the CPU giving it its own wind tunnel really murders the heat. Lots of unused PCB on the quad though, I had to laugh. But it's obviously for production costs. Why make two different CPU PCBs when you can just make one and only fill up half. Doesn't hurt anything.

 

[Eidorian]

I really like the design and I've built my own PCs for over a decade. The custom motherboard PCB is nice, with the separation. Isolating the CPU giving it its own wind tunnel really murders the heat. Lots of unused PCB on the quad though, I had to laugh. But it's obviously for production costs. Why make two different CPU PCBs when you can just make one and only fill up half. Doesn't hurt anything.

The previous generation 2008 Mac Pro in the quad configuration actually had the second socket left open. (There was a shield over it.) You just had to drop in another Xeon and obtain the Apple's huge custom heatsink.

 

[kntgsp]

The previous generation 2008 Mac Pro in the quad configuration actually had the second socket left open. (There was a shield over it.) You just had to drop in another Xeon and obtain the Apple's huge custom heatsink.

Oh damn. See I was off Mac for a year or so for work/school and missed that round. Wish they would have kept that, especially considering the CPU markup from Apple. Plus if you ever wound up wanting to upgrade you could, as you said, just drop in another. Particularly if a program you work with releases a version that takes advantage of dual CPUs.

Also, I just had a rather interesting idea that I'd touched upon in the other upgraded Mac Pro thread.....

I don't game often, but when I do, it's under Boot Camp. I'm going to toss the GT120 back in there (Which is just a rebranded 9500GT or 9600GT, can't remember which). Might be able to set that second card to do Physx when gaming under windows. Or hell, I could run folding in the background on the second card......

Physx doesn't need a high GPU clock. If I remember correctly even the 9800GTX's that people used in TRI SLI + that card configs, the PhysX downclocked the card to like 300Mhz or something since that's all it needs.

 

[gugucom]

Mac Pro has handled higher before. Also, I just ran MPrime (OS X version of Prime95) and was never higher than mid 50's under blend full system stress.

Considering the massive heatsink in the new Mac Pros basically get a whole wind tunnel to themselves, it's not a problem.

Could you elaborate on Mac Pro models exceeding 130 W TDP. I'm not aware of any.

BTW, congrats to the nice upgrade.

 

[Eidorian]

Oh damn. See I was off Mac for a year or so for work/school and missed that round. Wish they would have kept that, especially considering the CPU markup from Apple. Plus if you ever wound up wanting to upgrade you could, as you said, just drop in another. Particularly if a program you work with releases a version that takes advantage of dual CPUs.

Like you mentioned before you would think they would just simplify things and have a single PCB with both sockets on it instead of making two SKU configurations. (Single and dual)

Also, I just had a rather interesting idea that I'd touched upon in the other upgraded Mac Pro thread.....

I don't game often, but when I do, it's under Boot Camp. I'm going to toss the GT120 back in there (Which is just a rebranded 9500GT or 9600GT, can't remember which). Might be able to set that second card to do Physx when gaming under windows. Or hell, I could run folding in the background on the second card......

The GT120 is a relabeled 9500GT a.k.a. 8600GT. It's higher clocked, smaller, and sports a newer version of PureVideo but it's still the same card.

You can offload PhysX up until driver 186 when they disable support if there is a non-nVidia card detected. It's either dual nVidia cards or using the somewhat older driver.

 

[kntgsp]

Could you elaborate on Mac Pro models exceeding 130 W TDP. I'm not aware of any.

BTW, congrats to the nice upgrade.

Well technically PM G5, not Mac Pro. If I remember correctly there were models that handled 150W TDP

 

[gugucom]

Well technically PM G5, not Mac Pro. If I remember correctly there were models that handled 150W TDP

that explains the discrepancy. I was getting a bit confused.
The G5 150 W TDP probably were the liquid cooled. Not a shining reference in Apples design record.

 

[kntgsp]

Like you mentioned before you would think they would just simplify things and have a single PCB with both sockets on it instead of making two SKU configurations. (Single and dual)


The GT120 is a relabeled 9500GT a.k.a. 8600GT. It's higher clocked, smaller, and sports a newer version of PureVideo but it's still the same card.

You can offload PhysX up until driver 186 when they disable support if there is a non-nVidia card detected. It's either dual nVidia cards or using the somewhat older driver.

I installed driver 190.something just a bit ago in Windows 7 to try out the Batman demo for fun. It still gave the option of allowing a second card for physx. It was just grayed out since the GT120 isn't sitting in there at the moment. Also, the GT120 is an Nvidia card......

 

[Eidorian]

Could you elaborate on Mac Pro models exceeding 130 W TDP. I'm not aware of any.

BTW, congrats to the nice upgrade.

The original run of Clovertown X5365 was at 150W TDP. I believe that Apple was the only manufacturer that actually decided to sport these early stepping 150W (B3) while everyone else waited for the cooler 120W (G0) ones.

I installed driver 190.something just a bit ago in Windows 7 to try out the Batman demo for fun. It still gave the option of allowing a second card for physx. It was just grayed out since the GT120 isn't sitting in there at the moment. Also, the GT120 is an Nvidia card......

I know some people running a 4870 with some older 8 Series on the side for PhysX.