8 core or 4 core for now?

[conancn]

Hi, guys. Mac Pro might be too much for me, but I want to use a computer for as long as possible(stable, upgrade ability, nice). Therefore, here comes the deal.

My school offers new Mac Pro(two 2.66 xeon version) for $1999. I don't know it's still worth buying this one, 'cause this price is on the boundary of my budget (+extra monitor) and I'm either go with this one(ability to upgrade) or a 24 iMac (combo, but concern about the limitation of upgrade).

1. How long does this mac last in terms of hardware and software?
2. If I go with Mac Pro, which monitor should I get? (I'm thinking Dell 2208) What else should I get to add to that "standard" Mac Pro?
4. If I use windows in Mac, should it be 64bit windows?
3. I check the price of the parts included in this Mac(sort of).
Parts Price
CPU- 2 Xeon 5150 2*$700+
RAM- 1G $100
Video $100
HD $100
.....
gets these parts way cheaper than retail for sure, but it's still pretty decent price to get one for me. Please common.

Thanks so much!


Forgot to mention, I'm using it for daily life and photo editing.

=====================================================================

Update:I'll get my Mac Pro with ADC with following config.

Single Processor+WiFi+Wireless K&M+8800GT=$2100+ or
Dual Processors+WiFi+Wireless K&M=$2300+

Wonder I need the $160 8800GT?

1. Which monitor should I get, 22' should be fine, since price of 24 is double of price of 22?
2. How much is the xeon gonna be later when I want to add the other one? Prob more than just $400.

========================================================

Update again:Everything finally comes down to processor(s) and monitor. I use MP for daily activities, photo editing and potential video editing for families, windows.

I guess the xeon processor won't drop 50% of its price in the future?

 

[Toups]

Its a pretty good deal, but definately but extra memory and drives from a 3rd party. The Dell monitors are a pretty same choice, but the color is a little off and should be calibrated if your doing photo or graphics work.

For Windows, I would stay away from the 64-bit version due to limited application/peripheral support, not to mention you cannot allot more than 2GB RAM under Parallels or VMWare fusion.

Mac hardware, specifically the Mac Pro really seems to last and remain functional and usable for many years as there are many G4/G5 owners here who still have systems they use daily and are quite satisfied with even after 3, 4 or more years.

 

[conancn]

...
For Windows, I would stay away from the 64-bit version due to limited application/peripheral support,...

Thanks for your quick respond. Can I install 32bit in Mac Pro or it has to be 64bit, I'm kinda confused here.

 

[trainguy77]

Just remember that when you say new...they probably mean refurbished. And i think you could get one used for a better price then that now. I saw one go used on the marketplace for $1900 but it had 6gb of RAM, an x1900, a 500gb drive, applecare, and ilife 08' running leopard.

 

[macuserx86]

If you can live without being "cutting edge" then go for it. The "old" Xeons still run laps around new AMD CPUs and will serve you for a long time. As far a Windows, boot camp only supports the 32bit version anyway (but you wouldn't want to use the 64bit, trust me I have it; there are no drivers for ANYTHING)

I would suggest ordering it with the minimum amount of RAM and then buying it from OWC or Crucial (Apple has a few hundred dollar markup on its RAM) For Hard Drives, I shop at Newegg.com, they have great prices and fast shipping (in California)

Have fun with your new Mac!

 

[trainguy77]

Thanks for your quick respond. Can I install 32bit in Mac Pro or it has to be 64bit, I'm kinda confused here.

Yes a 64bit system can run 32bit Operating systems and applications. The Core 2 duo is also 64 bit by the way.

 

[conancn]

Just remember that when you say new...they probably mean refurbished. ...

It is new sold by my college store. Comparing to your quote, it's a little off i guess.

 

[macuserx86]

Yes a 64bit system can run 32bit Operating systems and applications. The Core 2 duo is also 64 bit by the way.

64bit systems can run 32bit OSs and Apps, but Boot Camp only supports 32bit vista anyway. I guess no 32GB of RAM in Windows then.

 

[Toups]

Thanks for your quick respond. Can I install 32bit in Mac Pro or it has to be 64bit, I'm kinda confused here.

Leopard will be 64-bit, if you install XP or Vista with Bootcamp, Parallels or VMWare you can install the 32-bit (standard) version.

 

[trainguy77]

64bit systems can run 32bit OSs and Apps, but Boot Camp only supports 32bit vista anyway. I guess no 32GB of RAM in Windows then.

Boot Camp is just software. Some people do run the 64 bit version of XP its just a matter of finding your own drivers instead of using the Boot Camp ones.

 

[conancn]

Leopard will be 64-bit, if you install XP or Vista with Bootcamp, Parallels or VMWare you can install the 32-bit (standard) version.

Lucky me! I got Parallels, windows and others software from school for free.

 

[macuserx86]

Boot Camp is just software. Some people do run the 64 bit version of XP its just a matter of finding your own drivers instead of using the Boot Camp ones.

Technically, boot camp is a BIOS emulator (since the Mac uses EFI) Boot camp itself only runs when you boot into Windows. As far as drivers go, the problem is that there are very few drivers for 64bit vista. That may be different for XP, but I know it is nigh impossible to find drivers for Vista.

 

[trainguy77]

Technically, boot camp is a BIOS emulator (since the Mac uses EFI) Boot camp itself only runs when you boot into Windows. As far as drivers go, the problem is that there are very few drivers for 64bit vista. That may be different for XP, but I know it is nigh impossible to find drivers for Vista.

Thats debatable, the BIOS emulator is in the EFI. You never needed to install the package "bootcamp" on the 10.4 system to install windows just so long you updated your EFI. Bootcamp just made it user friendly(partitioning and drivers) And this is true 64bit vista drivers are hard to come by. But i have heard of people finding 64 bit XP drivers for the Mac Pro.

 

[macuserx86]

Thats debatable, the BIOS emulator is in the EFI. You never needed to install the package "bootcamp" on the 10.4 system to install windows just so long you updated your EFI. Bootcamp just made it user friendly(partitioning and drivers) And this is true 64bit vista drivers are hard to come by. But i have heard of people finding 64 bit XP drivers for the Mac Pro.

EFI is actually a different way to deal with posting and booting and all that jazz, but that's beside the point. I'm sure 64bit XP drivers can be obtained, but vista drivers are not easy to come by, and one really should install Vista, since it is "the future" and it actually does work better. It's almost as stable as server 2000

 

[conancn]

...The Dell monitors are a pretty same choice, but the color is a little off and should be calibrated if your doing photo or graphics work.

What else monitor should be considered too? My ultimate monitor is dell 2407, but it does like Mac monitor, over priced right now.

 

[trainguy77]

EFI is actually a different way to deal with posting and booting and all that jazz, but that's beside the point.

I know but it also contains an emulator, its a module for EFI. But yes its beside the point.

 

[trainguy77]

What else monitor should be considered too? My ultimate monitor is dell 2407, but it does like Mac monitor, over priced right now.

I have a VX2435WM and its pretty good. Mind you its not the best if your into graphic work. But for basic work its great! Fits my price tag as well. I got it for $450(cdn) at best buy on sale.

 

[Ear Whiskers]

.

 

[macuserx86]

Have you considered the 2.8 single chip Harpertown MacPro? You get the same number of cores, 2 GB ram, faster FSB, faster memory, higher core speed, better stock video card, and other improvements over the 2.66 that you're considering.

For what your stated uses are (daily activities and photo editing), a single 2.8 will be just fine. Additionally, you can upgrade to the 8800GT sometime in the future and, should four cores no longer suffice, there is an unconfirmed possibility that you might be able to add in a second 2.8 chip. Personally, I wouldn't include the ability to *maybe* add the second 2.8 processor sometime in the future in the decision making process.

The downside: it will cost another $200 or so above your already stretched budget.

If you decide on a Mac Pro (see below first) then I would suggest saving up a few more hundred dollars (you don't mention whether you need the computer now or not) and get the single 2.8 Harpertown instead of the 2.66. Another benefit of waiting a bit longer, if you can, is that at the end of this month there will be a photography trade show (PMA 08) in Las Vegas. Now, obviously I don't know whether Apple will update their displays at this show or not, but it might be worthwhile to wait until then.

==========

I am waiting for the 8800GT to be released before I purchase my 2.8 GHz 8-core MacPro 2008 but I'm seriously considering stepping down to the 24" iMac 2.4 GHz ($1694 at Amazon.com) and saving a whole lotta money ($1700 v. $2995) eventhough the MacPro is well within my budget. My usage will be mainly AVCHD video editing, RAW photo editing, and last generation computer gaming, and the reality of the moment is that the iMac would work very well for my needs.

It might work very will for your needs, as well.

That is in interesting point that I actually forgot about I really comes down to 2 things:
1. do you have some extra money
2. do you need it NOW

as far as graphics go, the "old" mac pro will support the 8800GT and other newer cards for years to come, since PCI express 2.0 is a load of bullocks and is fully backwards compatible.

It is ultimately your choice, but I would go with the newer mac pro (sorry for changing my mind, but I forgot the single 4 core version was available)
The new Penryn based Xeon is a much faster chip than the old Merom based Xeon. To quote Steve Jobs, "it's a screamer!"

 

[diamond3]

Well, judging that you are a student. I'm going to make the assumption that you haven't used apples ADC (Apple developer Connection). Sign up for the student version for $99 and then go buy yourself a brand new Mac Pro single quad core version $1839. You will actually save your self some money (1839 + 99).

 

[conancn]

That is in interesting point that I actually forgot about I really comes down to 2 things:
1. do you have some extra money
2. do you need it NOW

as far as graphics go, the "old" mac pro will support the 8800GT and other newer cards for years to come, since PCI express 2.0 is a load of bullocks and is fully backwards compatible.

It is ultimately your choice, but I would go with the newer mac pro (sorry for changing my mind, but I forgot the single 4 core version was available)
The new Penryn based Xeon is a much faster chip than the old Merom based Xeon. To quote Steve Jobs, "it's a screamer!"

1. I have about $2500 to spend, the reason why i said the 2000 was my limit is that I want to have a 5yr+ last monitor so to speak. I'm chatting with apple people online about "adding the other cpu later" issue(such as cooling system etc.).
2. I can definitely wait till Feb.

8800GT is out there for $190 more on Mac Pro. right?

I was considering iMac first. But just about $500 plus monitor(but i believe that monitor is the most durable component), I can have Mac Pro that can be upgraded later. I know very well that I'll satisfy with iMac, but thinking about the long last issue, I'd rather spend a little bit more.

 

[macuserx86]

1. I have about $2500 to spend, the reason why i said the 2000 was my limit is that I want to have a 5yr+ last monitor so to speak. I'm chatting with apple people online about "adding the other cpu later" issue(such as cooling system etc.).
2. I can definitely wait till Feb.

8800GT is out there for $190 more on Mac Pro. right?

I was considering iMac first. But just about $500 plus monitor(but i believe that monitor is the most durable component), I can have Mac Pro that can be upgraded later. I know very well that I'll satisfy with iMac, but thinking about the long last issue, I'd rather spend a little bit more.

I was in the same iMac/ Mac Pro dilemma, but decided to go with the Mac Pro because of its power and upgradability.

If you add a BTO 8800GT it will be less than $200, but if you try an buy it later, it will be about $350.

Sounds like the single Quad is the perfect system for you; and as far as waiting, I ordered my Mac Pro the day they came out and it won't ship until Feb 13, so you will have to wait until Feb if you want a 8800GT

P.S. let us know what Apple support says about the second CPU, I'm interested to know if it's possible.

 

[conancn]

Well, judging that you are a student. I'm going to make the assumption that you haven't used apples ADC (Apple developer Connection). Sign up for the student version for $99 and then go buy yourself a brand new Mac Pro single quad core version $1839. You will actually save your self some money (1839 + 99).

wow, never heard of that. I'll seriously consider this program. learning now....

 

[conancn]

...P.S. let us know what Apple support says about the second CPU, I'm interested to know if it's possible.

I've been told that there is no need to concern about the cooling system. There are two fans for single processor when you order it. Then I ask him about how much it's gonna be since I assume adding the other cpu by Apple "could" be cheaper than just a CPU retail price. Unfortunately, he has no idea about that.

Always want to know the model of the CPU, is it E5462 Xeon? $1000?

 

[conancn]

wow, never heard of that. I'll seriously consider this program. learning now....

I did some calc for ADC

single processor 1839
8800GT 160
802.11n 40
wireless K&M 40
ADC 99
------------------------
total 2178