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802.11n?

jaw04005

jaw04005

macrumors 601
Original poster
Aug 19, 2003
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Anyone think Apple will announce a pre-802.11n AirPort Base Station and Express at Apple Expo Paris that will be compatible with the final standard?

I'm debating on purchasing another AirPort Base Station and set of two AirPort Express devices for my family's business. Maybe I should wait till the "n" standard is ratified?

I've got a few friends with the Belkin pre-N router and they love it although they have no "n" devices, it super extends both their "b" and "g" ranges.
 
While I wouldn't be surprised if Apple to update their Airport Express, I'm not exactly sure about adopting the "n" standard. I think they should and with recent rumors of an update Airport Express capable of video streaming I think it could be an added benefit although it isn't needed. But the Paris expo is coming up and I'm expecting a slew of update hardware then so the wait may be worth it. The only problem with that is you would need "n" capable card in your computers to actually be able to use it unless all you are looking for is extended range.
 
could n handle video? cause then the airport express would be cool.... for what, i have no clue...
 
What I'd like to know is, would the Apple 802.11n card be mini-PCI (like their g card) and work in AirPort Express slots? That would be cool, but this is Apple, so I'm not about to get my hopes up.
 
joshuawaire said:
Anyone think Apple will announce a pre-802.11n AirPort Base Station and Express at Apple Expo Paris that will be compatible with the final standard?
Click to expand...
Being that the N standard is not finalized there is no way you can guarantee that any pre-n device will work with the final standard. IMO it is a waste to purchase any pre-standard devices. They are expensive and may not be compatible with the final n standard. I bet that apple feels the same way. Then again what do i know? I never thought I'd see an apple 2-button mouse.
 
grapes911 said:
Being that the N standard is not finalized there is no way you can guarantee that any pre-n device will work with the final standard. IMO it is a waste to purchase any pre-standard devices. They are expensive and may not be compatible with the final n standard. I bet that apple feels the same way. Then again what do i know? I never thought I'd see an apple 2-button mouse.
Click to expand...

Well, Apple released AirPort Extreme (802.11g) before the standard was ratified. However, 802.11g may have been further along in development than "n" appears to be. I'm not sure when "n" was actually introduced.

Apple released AirPort Extreme in January of 2003. According to Wikipedia.org, 802.11g wasn't ratified until June of the same year.

I'm assuming as long as the internal hardware needed for an 802.11n device remains the same from now until when "n" is ratified, Apple could just release a firmware update?
 
puckhead193 said:
could n handle video? cause then the airport express would be cool.... for what, i have no clue...
Click to expand...

802.11n has a theoretical data transfer rate of 540 Mbit/second. I'm not sure if that could handle video?

802.11a - 54 Mbit/second
802.11b - 11 Mbit/second
802.11g - 54 Mbit/second
 
joshuawaire said:
802.11n has a theoretical data transfer rate of 540 Mbit/second. I'm not sure if that could handle video?

802.11a - 54 Mbit/second
802.11b - 11 Mbit/second
802.11g - 54 Mbit/second
Click to expand...
802.11g - 540 Mbit/second

:confused:
 
joshuawaire said:
802.11n has a theoretical data transfer rate of 540 Mbit/second. I'm not sure if that could handle video?

802.11a - 54 Mbit/second
802.11b - 11 Mbit/second
802.11g - 54 Mbit/second
Click to expand...
I'm a little confused to what you are referring to as handling video? I routinely watch movies that I have on my iMac on my PB using airport (802.11g) and file sharing without any problems. Is this not what you're referring to as handling video?
 
I haven't gotten more than 15Mbits on my 802.11b airport extreme connection. Maybe 802.11n will give speeds nearing the 802.11b specs. One can only wish.
 
joshuawaire said:
Well, Apple released AirPort Extreme (802.11g) before the standard was ratified. However, 802.11g may have been further along in development than "n" appears to be. I'm not sure when "n" was actually introduced.

Apple released AirPort Extreme in January of 2003. According to Wikipedia.org, 802.11g wasn't ratified until June of the same year.
Click to expand...
Correct. But almost every major manufacture was using the same or very similar devices then they all worked together. For all intents and purposes they already had a standard it just wasn't official.

In the case of pre-n, there are reports that major manufactures' routers, cards, etc are not working together properly. No one seems to want to change their own devices to be more standardized. It's really going to come down to IEEE saying "this is the standard we are going to use because we think it is the best and screw anyone who disagrees."

I'm assuming as long as the internal hardware needed for an 802.11n device remains the same from now until when "n" is ratified, Apple could just release a firmware update?
Click to expand...
Correct again. But these n devices are so far apart in some cases, I've read that firmware updates alone may not be enough to conform the device to the standard because the internal hardware is not always similar enough.

Now remember, if you purchase n devices and they work, they will continue to work after the standard is set. They just may not work with newer devices.
 
Lacero said:
I haven't gotten more than 15Mbits on my 802.11b airport extreme connection. Maybe 802.11n will give speeds nearing the 802.11b specs. One can only wish.
Click to expand...

:p 15Mbits on 802.11b? You overclocking it? ;)
 
grapes911 said:
Correct again. But these n devices are so far apart in some cases, I've read that firmware updates alone may not be enough to conform the device to the standard because the internal hardware is not always similar enough.

Now remember, if you purchase n devices and they work, they will continue to work after the standard is set. They just may not work with newer devices.
Click to expand...

Well, that's a disappointment. Hopefully soon the commission in charge of 802.11n will decide on an official hardware design and standard. Until then, I guess I will wait. :)
 
neocell said:
I'm a little confused to what you are referring to as handling video? I routinely watch movies that I have on my iMac on my PB using airport (802.11g) and file sharing without any problems. Is this not what you're referring to as handling video?
Click to expand...

I believe puckhead was referring to HD video streaming via an AirPort Express device. I can also watch quicktime files, dvds, and other media that can be streamed using 802.11g. However, certain larger-sized files do freeze when trying to play it remotely on a different computer.

Also, my AirPort Express device does not stream video. At least not yet ;)
 
Just to be clear everyone here is talking about streaming video over a local network, and not the internet correct? Typical broadband connections are on the range of 1.5 to 5 MBps or 12 to 40 Mbps. Theoretically 802.11g can handle your entire internet connection with room to spare. Once you start talking about the 15 MBps connections that are starting to roll out in some places, the story does change.
 
G networks can 'in theory' handle video that doesn't cross 6.75 Megabytes per second. No?

but in practice, mine tops out at 2.5... now if I could only make .mov's buffer :D
 
I can't stream DiVx movies over 802.11g from my PM G5 to my PB using VLC without some hiccups. 802.11g is supposed to be more than fast enough to handle DivX streams, but it doesn't seem to work that way. Could be VLC doesn't support buffering, but it shouldn't have to.
 
Lacero said:
I can't stream DiVx movies over 802.11g from my PM G5 to my PB using VLC without some hiccups. 802.11g is supposed to be more than fast enough to handle DivX streams, but it doesn't seem to work that way. Could be VLC doesn't support buffering, but it shouldn't have to.
Click to expand...


I think the issue here is that it CAN do it, it just can't keep the data rate perfectly constant, and since the video doesn't have a buffer to help it (like airtunes does) it skips...
 
Counterfit said:
15MBps would be really sweet. But MBps != Mbps. To get MBps from Mbps, divide by 8 ;) so 15MBps = 120Mbps :eek:
Click to expand...

Darn, confused again. Original post was slightly off but in a way that makes things even worse for your internet connections. Typical broadband connections are 1.5-5 Mbps (no conversion needed).

This means that no matter what wireless standard you currently use your internet connection will be your bottleneck. Since it is rated in Mbps not MBps 802.11g will have more than enough bandwidth to spare for a 15 Mbps connection, so if the thought is 802.11n will do anything to speed up internet access you are better off saving the money and sticking with 802.11g.

If you are trying to do streaming video or other large file transfers to/from computers on the same network you will see the benefits but it will do nothing to speed up the internet.
 
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