Calibrate 24" LED Cinema Display and 17" Macbook Pro screens

[cosolin]

I have a new 17" macbook pro (glossy screen) and 24" Apple LED Cinema Display, and I'm trying to calibrate each monitor. I'm currently running the Monaco Optix XR and can create some very good looking profiles, each to his own. But, I can not get the monitors close enough in color temperature when they are side by side. The 24" is slightly warmer than the macbook pro display.

I was considering picking up a Pantone Huey pro since my calibrator is so old, but I've been reading about a lot of problems with those on 10.6.

Has anyone had any luck calibrating these two new monitors with identical (or as close as humanly possible) color and temperature?

 

[xraydoc]

I have a new 17" macbook pro (glossy screen) and 24" Apple LED Cinema Display, and I'm trying to calibrate each monitor. I'm currently running the Monaco Optix XR and can create some very good looking profiles, each to his own. But, I can not get the monitors close enough in color temperature when they are side by side. The 24" is slightly warmer than the macbook pro display.

I was considering picking up a Pantone Huey pro since my calibrator is so old, but I've been reading about a lot of problems with those on 10.6.

Has anyone had any luck calibrating these two new monitors with identical (or as close as humanly possible) color and temperature?

I suspect you'll never get it so close that you'll not see a visible difference. Especially when working with a laptop screen.

The only time I've seen two monitors perfectly equally calibrated is when they are both from the same manufacturer and from the same batch/lot#.

 

[Makosuke]

To my knowledge pretty much every laptop available today, including the MBPs, use TN LCD panels. Since the 24" is an IPS panel, nothing you're going to be able to do will ever make them match particularly closely, and they'll be even worse from an angle due to the huge viewing angle differences between the two types.

It's possible that with a new calibrator you might be able to get the temperatures a little closer, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

If you're curious why laptops all use TN, there are some threads here discussing it, but I believe it boils down to much lower power consumption.

 

[lixuelai]

The LCD itself does not use much power. The main reason to use TN is cost.

 

[DarwinOSX]

No thats wrong.

The only Mac laptop that uses a TN panel is the white MacBook. All of the 13 and 15 inch MB's use high quality LED backlit S-IPS displays.

Apple uses several different manufacturers for these displays.

To my knowledge pretty much every laptop available today, including the MBPs, use TN LCD panels. Since the 24" is an IPS panel, nothing you're going to be able to do will ever make them match particularly closely, and they'll be even worse from an angle due to the huge viewing angle differences between the two types.

It's possible that with a new calibrator you might be able to get the temperatures a little closer, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

If you're curious why laptops all use TN, there are some threads here discussing it, but I believe it boils down to much lower power consumption.

 

[jedijoe]

Spyder3Pro

some other input.. I have a 17" MBP, 24" LED ACD (at work), and 30" ACD (at home).

Previously I was using a Xrite DTP-94 with Color Eyes Display Pro software and it worked like crap for so many reasons, including just the fact the color eyes software is absolute garbage!!

Recently, I purchased a Spyder3Pro because I was sick of dealing with Color Eyes in general. I found that the calibration of all 3 monitors was much improved. The laptop and 24-inch I think are much closer now in temp and color, but for reasons stated above, I also don't think they will ever match (or somewhat match).

The Spyder3, from what I read, handles the newer LED displays better. It certainly seems true in my limited experience. And maybe that contributed to the better overall results (but not 100% matching results).

 

[Makosuke]

The only Mac laptop that uses a TN panel is the white MacBook. All of the 13 and 15 inch MB's use high quality LED backlit S-IPS displays.

Huh, that's good to know. Odd that Apple doesn't mention them being IPS anywhere on the product pages, while they prominently talk it up all over the new iMac pages. Seems like if you're going to put a panel that good in a laptop, you'd be bragging heavily on it.

I take it this was a recent change, since my older 17" certainly isn't IPS and a few relatively recent reviews I ran across in Googling this specifically stated that they used very good TN panels. Speaking of which, here's an interesting detailed review of the mid-2009 MBPs with regards to color accuracy, and one from the same site in early 2009 comparing the then-best Lenovo and Apple laptops with an earlier IBM one that, he's claiming, was the only IPS panel available in a laptop at that writing.

Do you know when during 2009 they switched to IPS panels, or was he wrong that the ones available in Jan 2009 used TN panels?

 

[cosolin]

No thats wrong.

The only Mac laptop that uses a TN panel is the white MacBook. All of the 13 and 15 inch MB's use high quality LED backlit S-IPS displays.

Apple uses several different manufacturers for these displays.

Thanks for that information. I had thought that each display was LED backlit, but was not finding good tech specs on apple's website. I might have to try a different screen calibrator, but am a little disappointed that the monitors can't sync up a little better.

 

[cosolin]

some other input.. I have a 17" MBP, 24" LED ACD (at work), and 30" ACD (at home).

Previously I was using a Xrite DTP-94 with Color Eyes Display Pro software and it worked like crap for so many reasons, including just the fact the color eyes software is absolute garbage!!

Recently, I purchased a Spyder3Pro because I was sick of dealing with Color Eyes in general. I found that the calibration of all 3 monitors was much improved. The laptop and 24-inch I think are much closer now in temp and color, but for reasons stated above, I also don't think they will ever match (or somewhat match).

The Spyder3, from what I read, handles the newer LED displays better. It certainly seems true in my limited experience. And maybe that contributed to the better overall results (but not 100% matching results).

Thanks for the calibration info. I will look into the Spyder3Pro. I was thinking that my extremely outdated Monaco Optix XR might be the problem, but it sounds like it may be impossible to get the two panels to calibrate perfectly. Have you heard anything good/bad about the Huey Pro? The little research I've done shows that there are some software/Snow Leopard issues?

 

[dazex]

No thats wrong.

The only Mac laptop that uses a TN panel is the white MacBook. All of the 13 and 15 inch MB's use high quality LED backlit S-IPS displays.

Apple uses several different manufacturers for these displays.

Could you point me to a reference for this as I can't seem to find it. As far as I know, all the Macbooks are still using TN panels. The only laptop I know that ever had IPS panels are specific models of Thinkpads.

Also, the upcoming iPAD, love it or hate it, will sport IPS panels. This is a huge deal IMHO.

Thank you.

-David

 

[Makosuke]

Could you point me to a reference for this as I can't seem to find it. As far as I know, all the Macbooks are still using TN panels.

This was discussed in some detail in this thread (which actually referenced this one at the start), and while there are people who've personally looked and even citing specific panel part numbers as being TN, none of the people claiming they have IPS panels said anything.

Mine is older, I haven't personally checked a new one, and when I talked to an Apple sales rep he wasn't able to offer any specific information one way or the other, so I can't personally say anything definitively (though I'd love to have someone give a positive reason for believing they're IPS). But, the evidence seems to point heavily toward being TN panels.

The biggest evidence is that Apple prominently advertises the new iMacs, 24" LCD, and iPad as being IPS, and says zip on the MB/MBP line. I just can't see why they'd not be trumpeting it if they were spending the considerable premium for IPS panels. And while they might keep quiet so they can change suppliers (which they do with many components), why would they quietly switch to drastically more expensive IPS panels or only use them in just some, since they can't advertise on it and buyers wouldn't know which they would be getting, so there's no marketing advantage, even silently, either.

 

[dazex]

Makosuke,
thanks for the reference. I have a couple of IPS panels and also the unibody MacBook pro. I can spot the difference by just looking at the vertical viewing angle shifting colors. Which means for color critical work, one gotta be vigilent in sitting straight and centered while working. Sloach a little and your colors are off. The MacBook pros are definitely TN and the reasoning of apple not forthcoming with that info is evidence enough.

Hopefully with the ipad's ips screen, and the ips panels in the current iMacs allude to the shift back to quality that Apple is fame to have. I was sadden to see all the manufacturer rush to produce attractively priced LCD panels that were all TN based, leaving only a small handful of manufacturers producing IPS monitor.

 

[Makosuke]

I have a couple of IPS panels and also the unibody MacBook pro. I can spot the difference by just looking at the vertical viewing angle shifting colors. Which means for color critical work, one gotta be vigilent in sitting straight and centered while working.

Good to have another first-hand data point on this for confirmation. And your comment about viewing angles is something people overlook in both ways; just because the MBP screens are currently TN doesn't mean they look awful--they're actually quite good, and the review I linked before showed that even from a measured colorimetric standpoint they're not at all bad. The much narrower viewing angles, however, play havoc with color accuracy if you're off-axis, so one has to be much more careful using them for said purposes.

Also less conductive to having someone look over your shoulder or having a few people lined up looking at the same screen, though that's a much less significant problem with laptops than desktops, due to how they're used.

 

[dazex]

Makosuke,
I agree that the current MBP has a very nice TN. Even the Macbook versions have seen a nice panel upgrade that has not been overtly promoted as such by Apple. In prior models of the Macbooks, the screen very bad IMHO.

One other thing I noticed, being a smaller screen, the viewing angle shift doesn't affect you as much as say a larger physical screen. i.e. a 24" monitor. Because more of it is physically centered in front of your vision's field of view.

Anyways, just wishful thinking on my part, but I can't really see how Apple could really make their laptop computer stand out in the coming release. The unibody manufacturing was just released so most likely they will use the same technique and form factor for many more revisions before changing that. Most likely a bump to the current Intel processor line and whatever current mobile graphics line that Apple deem best. So that leaves the possibility of switching from a TN based screen to a IPS screen as a differentiating feature.

This simple change will not only bring the laptops inline with Apple's move to IPS in all their product offering, but will also automatically distinguish the Macbook/MBP line from their competitor if you think about it. IMHO, it will do lots to add to Apple's image that they are out to engineer the best computers they know how. I would be lining up to buy in a heart beat.

...that and to get rid of the unibody MBP 15" floppy hinge problem. Annoys me to no end and not a problem on the unibody 13" or 17" so I know there is a solution. Go figure.

cheers,
-David

 

[Cycom]

I find it hard to believe that my 13 inch uMBP sports an IPS panel. Anybody care to find concrete proof of this?

 

[Makosuke]

This discussion really should be spun off into another thread, but anyway:

One thing that could affect Apple's plans on this front is whether they are even able to buy IPS panels in the right size and thickness to use--other than that older Thinkpad are there any laptops using IPS panels? If not, I don't know how many orders Apple would need to guarantee before it would be worth it to a manufacturer to develop one specifically for them.

Apple's obviously capable of getting someone to do it, since the iPad will sport one (anyone know of another device using a ~9" IPS panel, or did Apple get it custom-made for themselves?), but they may well be banking on getting millions, if not tens of millions, of orders in the next few years; the sales on the 17" MBP can't be anywhere near that.

Making things worse is that apart from Apple, the entire laptop market is in a nasty race to the bottom. The extra few hundred dollars an IPS panel would (I assume) add to the cost aren't something Dell or HP are liable to go anywhere near apart from maybe very high-end models, so I honestly wonder how many other manufacturers would buy them.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

I find it hard to believe that my 13 inch uMBP sports an IPS panel. Anybody care to find concrete proof of this?

there is no concrete proof because it's not a reality. One way we would know if the MBP did have an IPS panel would be in every Mac vs. PC Cost discussion, it would be brought up ad nauseum.

 

[Jaro65]

I find it hard to believe that my 13 inch uMBP sports an IPS panel. Anybody care to find concrete proof of this?

Just go an Apple Store and look at any MBP close to an iMac or an ACD. You will notice that the screens behave very differently when you change the viewing angle. Why? Because iMacs and ACDs have IPS screens. MBPs do not.