Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

IPS Panel in the coming MBP?

I

iTry1984

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 3, 2009
3
0
The iMacs and ACDs have IPS-Panels. And now even the iPad has one.

So the notebooks are the only TN-driven Apple devices left. Do you think it is possible that the next MBPs have an IPS-Panel?
I searched for other Notebooks with IPS and found only a few older Lenovos, so the market is not very big. Otherwise it would be a good way to make the MBP more "Pro" and give a real advantage over the MB.
 
There is no mainstream laptop with an IPS display and the MBP, no matter how Apple tries to market it has never had pro-level parts unless you count that battery. It would be a very welcome change but I don't see it coming any time soon from the people who forced the glossy display on us. I have to say that it doesn't make much sense for Apple to put it in... maybe as an option in the 17".
 
How good is the IPS display technology compared to the current MBP display? And why is it so good?
 
ammusk said:
How good is the IPS display technology compared to the current MBP display? And why is it so good?
Click to expand...

The current MBPs have a very good TN panel in them, but an IPS (or S-IPS) panel would yield slightly better color accuracy and, more importantly, wider viewing angles. The current MBP screens are very accurate to begin with so you won't see too much color change. They are a top pick for designers after all.
 
grahamnp said:
There is no mainstream laptop with an IPS display and the MBP, no matter how Apple tries to market it has never had pro-level parts unless you count that battery. It would be a very welcome change but I don't see it coming any time soon from the people who forced the glossy display on us. I have to say that it doesn't make much sense for Apple to put it in... maybe as an option in the 17".
Click to expand...

Lenovo offers an IPS panel on their high end T510 Thinkpad (the only one I can think of off the top of my head)
 
If the Ipad at $499 is using an IPS display, I would sure as hell hope a $2000+ "pro level" laptop would get one as well.
 
colto said:
The current MBPs have a very good TN panel in them, but an IPS (or S-IPS) panel would yield slightly better color accuracy and, more importantly, wider viewing angles. The current MBP screens are very accurate to begin with so you won't see too much color change. They are a top pick for designers after all.
Click to expand...

I suppose if you are happy with 6 bit color which Has about 10 percent of the numbers of colors as 8 bit displays like ips and PVA displays or even old CRT monitors. While the MacBook pro display is great for a laptop, it's not anywhere close to my Dell ultrasharp s-PVA monitor.
 
iTry1984 said:
The iMacs and ACDs have IPS-Panels. And now even the iPad has one.

So the notebooks are the only TN-driven Apple devices left. Do you think it is possible that the next MBPs have an IPS-Panel?
I searched for other Notebooks with IPS and found only a few older Lenovos, so the market is not very big. Otherwise it would be a good way to make the MBP more "Pro" and give a real advantage over the MB.
Click to expand...

i think the ipad has an ips screen more for the wide viewing angles, especially the ability to rotate - than color accuracy

it shows a good attention to detail

it would be nice to have an ips screen on a mainstream notebook but i dont see it happening. i would be happy to be proven wrong though
 
I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they got the E-IPS displays, which are essentially cheaper versions of the technology. Should still be better than TN panels. The MBP TN panel is one of the better ones though, I usually hate them but don't mind the one on my 13" MBP.
 
I wonder about the power consumption. IPS uses more juice than TN.

The current MBP 13.3' panel uses about 4.6 Watts (looking at the LG spec sheet). An IPS equivalent would use..... who knows? 8 Watts?

The MBP battery is 65 Watt-hours. For the advertised 7 hour battery life the laptop uses about 10 watts. If the panel is on half brightness it's taking about 2-3 watts of that. An IPS panel would draw say 4-5 watts under similar conditions. So an IPS panel might take say 1 to 1.5 hours off the battery life or so.

Presumably the IPS panel will be more expensive than TN - it's certainly a more complex, newer technology.

Say the new MBP costs $100 more and has 5.5 hour battery life instead of 7. Worth it? I'm not sure Apple will do this. It would be nice though, it would also make me quite jealous having just bought a new MBP.
 
I know this is quite an old thread but I've just bought a new 2011 Sandy Bridge MacBook Pro 13 and had it replaced 3 times until I got a screen I was happy with (9CC5 - I had a 9CC3 which was close but a bit too "yellowy" from left to right). The viewing angles on these TN panels are actually very bad and I think that what's happened is simply that people are used to them and especially since they're usually better than other laptop screens.

I'm "ok" with my new MBP but not over the moon about it because of the TN screen. Given the quality of everything else the screen brings the whole experience crashing down. I use an IPS screen on my main computer and it's massively better - obviously.

Interestingly - Apple have just reduced the battery life claims from 10 to 7 hours on these MBP Sandy Bridge refresh. Could this indicate a preparation for including IPS screens in future updates without the marketing fallout of lower battery life? Hmmmm. I hope so!
 
kny3twalker said:
I suppose if you are happy with 6 bit color which Has about 10 percent of the numbers of colors as 8 bit displays like ips and PVA displays or even old CRT monitors. While the MacBook pro display is great for a laptop, it's not anywhere close to my Dell ultrasharp s-PVA monitor.
Click to expand...

Actually, they are right. Apple's TN panels calibrate fairly well, they are definitely not your average **** panel. Are they an IPS? No, definitely not… but IPS in the notebook space is exceedingly rare. I would be happy to use a calibrated MacBook Pro display for my work (which is colour-sensitive) and have before with perfectly acceptable results. It's not something you'd use in a studio, but everybody makes compromises for mobility. "Bench racing" the numbers really doesn't do anything for you.


ali.shaded said:
I know this is quite an old thread but I've just bought a new 2011 Sandy Bridge MacBook Pro 13 and had it replaced 3 times until I got a screen I was happy with (9CC5 - I had a 9CC3 which was close but a bit too "yellowy" from left to right). The viewing angles on these TN panels are actually very bad and I think that what's happened is simply that people are used to them and especially since they're usually better than other laptop screens.

I'm "ok" with my new MBP but not over the moon about it because of the TN screen. Given the quality of everything else the screen brings the whole experience crashing down. I use an IPS screen on my main computer and it's massively better - obviously.

Interestingly - Apple have just reduced the battery life claims from 10 to 7 hours on these MBP Sandy Bridge refresh. Could this indicate a preparation for including IPS screens in future updates without the marketing fallout of lower battery life? Hmmmm. I hope so!
Click to expand...

Apple's change in battery estimates were from an alteration in testing. The batteries are the same, and power consumption is apparently more or less the same.

The difference with an IPS panel is not that it takes particularly more power as a technology. It has much more to do with the IPS matrix being much less transparent than a TN matrix, and thus a much brighter (and more power consumptive) backlight is required. LED tech can help with this, eIPS has helped even more (being a more transparent IPS matrix). I suspect you could put an LED-backlit eIPS panel into a laptop today without catastrophe, but it would certainly lower the battery life.
 
Evil Spoonman said:
Actually, they are right. Apple's TN panels calibrate fairly well, they are definitely not your average **** panel. Are they an IPS? No, definitely not… but IPS in the notebook space is exceedingly rare. I would be happy to use a calibrated MacBook Pro display for my work (which is colour-sensitive) and have before with perfectly acceptable results. It's not something you'd use in a studio, but everybody makes compromises for mobility. "Bench racing" the numbers really doesn't do anything for you.




Apple's change in battery estimates were from an alteration in testing. The batteries are the same, and power consumption is apparently more or less the same.

The difference with an IPS panel is not that it takes particularly more power as a technology. It has much more to do with the IPS matrix being much less transparent than a TN matrix, and thus a much brighter (and more power consumptive) backlight is required. LED tech can help with this, eIPS has helped even more (being a more transparent IPS matrix). I suspect you could put an LED-backlit eIPS panel into a laptop today without catastrophe, but it would certainly lower the battery life.
Click to expand...

Well.... the sad thing is that I've decided to take my MacBook Pro back for a full refund. Sad because like I said, the rest of the system is literally the best laptop I've ever used - and I'm loving OSX even though I'm a windows guy.

I simply can't accept that the viewing angles of these panels means that there is a gradient from top to bottom of darker to lighter at the bottom. In addition to this, there is (on all 3 replacements I've now had) a slightly more yellow tone on the left side of the screen when looking dead on. This seems to be due to colour shift because again of the viewing angles because when I move my head horizontally yo the left it then balances out but of course my head is then off-centre to the left!

I really have tried to get used to the panels on the MBP and have even used SuperCal to do a simple (but very effective - the results were very good for anyone's reference) calibration which definitely helped with the colour accuracy. I just can't accept that Ive paid top dollar for a top-notch laptop only to discover that BOTH the brightness of the panel is uneven AND the colour shift is all over the place.

I fully accept that this is just the "way it is" and that these panels are "better" than most. In the end, if I don't like it - there isn't much scope for me having a laptop at all. The thing is - I bought the MBP for the experience and joy of using it as a whole - the trackpad, osx, the beautiful unibody construction - everything about the MBP's scream beauty and I've saved up for that and bought one instead of a sony or dell or hp. I just cannot accept that the panels on these things "fit' the rest of the 'finish' and in fact in my opinion let it down massively.

Maybe one day they will include IPS displays in the MBP - when/if that day comes - I'm in. For now, however - I'm out - and quite sad about it.

Accepting sub-standard products just because they're what's the "norm' isn't my idea of sensible buying. I called the Apple store and explained the situation and they still want to open up a new box and get me to see if there's one I think is good enough. I suspect not - but bless them for trying. The customer service I've had from them so far has been nothing less that exemplary.
 
Yeah.. I wish IPS displays would become common place among laptops, especially the MacBook Pros.

The TN displays are pretty horrible.. don't get me wrong, your average user won't care. And I'm not that fussy about colour accuracy. Thing that gets me is viewing angles - move your head an inch and the colours begin to shift a fraction.
 
ali.shaded said:
Well.... the sad thing is that I've decided to take my MacBook Pro back for a full refund. Sad because like I said, the rest of the system is literally the best laptop I've ever used - and I'm loving OSX even though I'm a windows guy.

I simply can't accept that the viewing angles of these panels means that there is a gradient from top to bottom of darker to lighter at the bottom. In addition to this, there is (on all 3 replacements I've now had) a slightly more yellow tone on the left side of the screen when looking dead on. This seems to be due to colour shift because again of the viewing angles because when I move my head horizontally yo the left it then balances out but of course my head is then off-centre to the left!

I really have tried to get used to the panels on the MBP and have even used SuperCal to do a simple (but very effective - the results were very good for anyone's reference) calibration which definitely helped with the colour accuracy. I just can't accept that Ive paid top dollar for a top-notch laptop only to discover that BOTH the brightness of the panel is uneven AND the colour shift is all over the place.

I fully accept that this is just the "way it is" and that these panels are "better" than most. In the end, if I don't like it - there isn't much scope for me having a laptop at all. The thing is - I bought the MBP for the experience and joy of using it as a whole - the trackpad, osx, the beautiful unibody construction - everything about the MBP's scream beauty and I've saved up for that and bought one instead of a sony or dell or hp. I just cannot accept that the panels on these things "fit' the rest of the 'finish' and in fact in my opinion let it down massively.

Maybe one day they will include IPS displays in the MBP - when/if that day comes - I'm in. For now, however - I'm out - and quite sad about it.

Accepting sub-standard products just because they're what's the "norm' isn't my idea of sensible buying. I called the Apple store and explained the situation and they still want to open up a new box and get me to see if there's one I think is good enough. I suspect not - but bless them for trying. The customer service I've had from them so far has been nothing less that exemplary.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from and I'm sorry you feel that way. I suppose if you want a laptop that will meet your standards you have two choices. One is to buy a Lenovo that has a IPS display. However, having owned one I'll say the screen wouldn't make up for the other compromises of the laptop.

Your other option would be to buy a BTO Macbook 15" or 17" online and spec one of the upgraded screens. I suspect the high res, matte option would be a very different screen than you experienced in the 13".
 
DustinT said:
Your other option would be to buy a BTO Macbook 15" or 17" online and spec one of the upgraded screens. I suspect the high res, matte option would be a very different screen than you experienced in the 13".
Click to expand...

They're not. They are still TN panels, and there is one panel type (I forget the model identifier) that has a reddish cast, and it is pretty hard to sort out the white point without getting side effects.

I did have a good TN panel on an antiglare MacBook Pro, which I regrettably sold to upgrade, that had a fairly even white across the screen. The upgraded model I got, wasn't that great at all.

That is the one thing that I worry about every time I upgrade my MacBook Pro is the "screen lottery". I really wish you could BTO the machine and choose which panel. Of course, it'd mean that there would be shortages with that type of panel, but I'd rather wait a week to get my MBP delivered if I knew it had a good panel and wasn't a melon.
 
Kilamite said:
They're not. They are still TN panels, and there is one panel type (I forget the model identifier) that has a reddish cast, and it is pretty hard to sort out the white point without getting side effects.

I did have a good TN panel on an antiglare MacBook Pro, which I regrettably sold to upgrade, that had a fairly even white across the screen. The upgraded model I got, wasn't that great at all.

That is the one thing that I worry about every time I upgrade my MacBook Pro is the "screen lottery". I really wish you could BTO the machine and choose which panel. Of course, it'd mean that there would be shortages with that type of panel, but I'd rather wait a week to get my MBP delivered if I knew it had a good panel and wasn't a melon.
Click to expand...
Well, you know you can get a screen that will satisfy you if you pick up a proper graphics workstation from a company like Lenovo. I'm not sure what the pricing will be but thats really your only other option.

Are you doing some professional work that requires that level of screen precision?
 
DustinT said:
Well, you know you can get a screen that will satisfy you if you pick up a proper graphics workstation from a company like Lenovo. I'm not sure what the pricing will be but thats really your only other option.

Are you doing some professional work that requires that level of screen precision?
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I want a Mac. I own Mac software, so switching isn't really an option.

I don't do any work where colour correction is vital, but doesn't mean that a crappy TN panel that has variable white levels and rubbish viewing angles doesn't irritate me.

I'm not denying that there is very good TN panels, and Apple uses them, but it is a lottery if you are lucky enough to get that specific TN panel or not.
 
One thing I wondered (and searched for) was a replacement 13" ips panel from somewhere that I could have put in the MBP 13. A bit extreme, I know, but as it happens there aren't any 13" IPS panels you can source as replacements anyway so that was a no-go. Would I go to all the trouble to buy a new MBP 13 and then open it up to stick an IPS display in it? Well yes - depending on the cost! Doesn't seem possible though unfortunately.

As a side note, I've always noticed that the panels in the Sony Z series laptops look virtually perfect to me when I've looked at them in shops - definitely "good enough" as far as I'm concerned. I've never noticed any colour shift and the viewing angles are great - assuming it's a TN like everything else. Wonder what they're doing right?
 
ali.shaded said:
Well.... the sad thing is that I've decided to take my MacBook Pro back for a full refund. Sad because like I said, the rest of the system is literally the best laptop I've ever used - and I'm loving OSX even though I'm a windows guy.

I simply can't accept that the viewing angles of these panels means that there is a gradient from top to bottom of darker to lighter at the bottom. In addition to this, there is (on all 3 replacements I've now had) a slightly more yellow tone on the left side of the screen when looking dead on. This seems to be due to colour shift because again of the viewing angles because when I move my head horizontally yo the left it then balances out but of course my head is then off-centre to the left!

I really have tried to get used to the panels on the MBP and have even used SuperCal to do a simple (but very effective - the results were very good for anyone's reference) calibration which definitely helped with the colour accuracy. I just can't accept that Ive paid top dollar for a top-notch laptop only to discover that BOTH the brightness of the panel is uneven AND the colour shift is all over the place.

I fully accept that this is just the "way it is" and that these panels are "better" than most. In the end, if I don't like it - there isn't much scope for me having a laptop at all. The thing is - I bought the MBP for the experience and joy of using it as a whole - the trackpad, osx, the beautiful unibody construction - everything about the MBP's scream beauty and I've saved up for that and bought one instead of a sony or dell or hp. I just cannot accept that the panels on these things "fit' the rest of the 'finish' and in fact in my opinion let it down massively.

Maybe one day they will include IPS displays in the MBP - when/if that day comes - I'm in. For now, however - I'm out - and quite sad about it.

Accepting sub-standard products just because they're what's the "norm' isn't my idea of sensible buying. I called the Apple store and explained the situation and they still want to open up a new box and get me to see if there's one I think is good enough. I suspect not - but bless them for trying. The customer service I've had from them so far has been nothing less that exemplary.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Either you have some of the worst luck ever or you are insanely sensitive to display imperfection. Every display (even the $2,000+ NECs and Eizo) have some amount of variation across the display (usually in brightness). Generally a good IPS panel is indeed very stable and virtually immune to contrast/color shift. Calibrating a TN panel can be a bit of extra work, and then you have to keep your head in the display's sweet spot, and everything is just never as good. Couldn't tolerate the MBP display though... sheesh... that is an exceptional level of sensitivity.

I do hope you find something that works for you, I'm not sure it will be an easy road expecting perfect displays in a laptop. You might be confined to a desk for another few years, at least until laptops begin adopting decent panel tech en mass.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back