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Why Apple will never support Blu-Ray

D

drjsway

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 8, 2009
936
2
To end the Blu-Ray discussion, here are the reasons Apple CANNOT support Blu-Ray.

1. You cannot output Blu-Ray content because MiniDisplayPort is not HDCP compliant. Only HDMI is HDCP compliant. That means even if you did stick a Blu-Ray drive in a MBP, it will not output HD.

2. Apple cannot switch from MiniDisplayPort to HDMI because HDMI cannot display resolutions higher than 1200p (unless you buy a monitor that supports HDMI 1.4 and I don't know of any that's been released). Apple also cannot abandon MiniDisplayPort for compatibility reasons with their other products.

3. Apple can put both a MiniDisplayPort and an HDMI port on the MBP but this is overkill and they would never do that, especially when DisplayPort is a superior technology and a royalty-free and open standard.

When Jobs talks about Blu-Ray licensing being "a bag of hurt", this is what he means. Blu-Ray is tied to HDCP (high-bandwidth digital content protection), which only works with HDMI, yet the PC industry is embracing DisplayPort as the new standard.
 
4. why waste time, money and resources on supporting technology that will be obsolete in a couple of years?
 
atheistpally said:
4. why waste time, money and resources on supporting technology that will be obsolete in a couple of years?
Click to expand...

That too but I'm just pointing out why Apple couldn't support it even if they wanted to. Don't blame Apple, blame HDCP, an evil copy protection system the Blu-Ray association came up with.
 
Version 1.1 of the displayport standard includes support for HDCP. I would prefer an HDMI port on my mac but that is only so that I could output audio over DTS-HD and True-HD. It would also be nice to only use one cable.
 
drjsway said:
To end the Blu-Ray discussion, here are the reasons Apple CANNOT support Blu-Ray.

1. You cannot output Blu-Ray content because MiniDisplayPort is not HDCP compliant. Only HDMI is HDCP compliant. That means even if you did stick a Blu-Ray drive in a MBP, it will not output HD.

2. Apple cannot switch from MiniDisplayPort to HDMI because HDMI cannot display resolutions higher than 1200p (unless you buy a monitor that supports HDMI 1.4 and I don't know of any that's been released). Apple also cannot abandon MiniDisplayPort for compatibility reasons with their other products.

3. Apple can put both a MiniDisplayPort and an HDMI port on the MBP but this is overkill and they would never do that, especially when DisplayPort is a superior technology and a royalty-free and open standard.

When Jobs talks about Blu-Ray licensing being "a bag of hurt", this is what he means. Blu-Ray is tied to HDCP (high-bandwidth digital content protection), which only works with HDMI, yet the PC industry is embracing DisplayPort as the new standard.
Click to expand...

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...-to-hdmi-adapter-available-hdcp-compliant.ars
 
Wasn't aware DisplayPort is now HDCP compliant.

Umm... well... optical media is still dying, so there! :)
 
drjsway said:
Wasn't aware DisplayPort is now HDCP compliant.

Umm... well... optical media is still dying, so there! :)
Click to expand...

It will still be around for a long time to come. Do you want to download a 25GB movie over the internet every time you rent something? I don't think so.

If you rent something on iTunes in "HD" and you really believe it looks like a Blu-Ray movie, you're dead wrong.
 
I guess what I don't understand about BluRay is that even if our laptops had them, watching BluRay on the laptop's screen, or an external monitor would still look like crap/regular DVD, would it not?

Admittedly I haven't downloaded anything HD from Apple but I have a feeling that on my ACD it wouldn't look any different at all from regular non-HD content...correct me if I'm wrong.
 
puma1552 said:
I guess what I don't understand about BluRay is that even if our laptops had them, watching BluRay on the laptop's screen, or an external monitor would still look like crap/regular DVD, would it not?

Admittedly I haven't downloaded anything HD from Apple but I have a feeling that on my ACD it wouldn't look any different at all from regular non-HD content...correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

There is a difference and it will look better than DVD but 720p is perfect for a laptop with a TN display. Blu-Ray is overkill.
 
Yeah optical media isn't going anywhere. Why?
  • ISPs more and more are placing bandwidth caps
  • Downloads can not match the quality of hard media. NOTHING has ever come close.
  • You can resell discs, or even use them as coasters (my GI-Joe blu ray)
  • You get more for your buck. Special features, BD-Live
  • Included digital copy saves me download time

The only reason Apple will not put blu-ray in their machines is because it would simply compete with iTunes. Now if hypothetically if all blu-rays came with a digital copy from iTunes, Steve OCD Jobs would change his tune, as would every other mac fanboy.

Eventually downloads are the future, but with current obstacles, hard media will always be around. Wait till everything goes to the cloud, then all the downloaders will be crying.
 
I think the bottom line on this is that Blu-Ray drives are expensive and the royalty fees / drive cost will cut too much into the price point profit margins Apple wants to maintain. Remember, this is the company that put 2gb of ram in a $1200 computer to save ~$35. I dont see a expensive drive in that same laptop.
 
Cali3350 said:
I think the bottom line on this is that Blu-Ray drives are expensive and the royalty fees / drive cost will cut too much into the price point profit margins Apple wants to maintain. Remember, this is the company that put 2gb of ram in a $1200 computer to save ~$35. I dont see a expensive drive in that same laptop.
Click to expand...
DVD burners used to be expensive as well and Apple was one of early adopters of them as well as being the company that really pushed desktop DVD authoring to consumers (iDVD) and prosumers (DVD SP). Apple has historically been skimpy w/RAM and HDD specs because they have huge markups on them.

I'm more likely to agree w/what someone else previously said about Apple wanting to funnel people to the iTunes store. Same reason :apple:TV lacks DVR functionality, IMO. Apple is heavily invested in the content distribution business now.


Lethal
 
- Apple & Co. offer HD content via download (internet speed is increasing fast)
- discs are dying & the hardware takes too much space (notebooks only)
 
SAIRUS said:
[*]Downloads can not match the quality of hard media. NOTHING has ever come close.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? You can download FULL blu-rays online now if you want. Not rips or re-encodes but full untouched blu-rays. Of course, there are no legal means to do so currently, but that doesn't mean there won't be.
 
The only reason for doing or not doing something is money.

Digital downloads and iTunes store are a few tags for this. Blue Ray sales are weak, it is not taking over yet and maybe never will.
 
puma1552 said:
I guess what I don't understand about BluRay is that even if our laptops had them, watching BluRay on the laptop's screen, or an external monitor would still look like crap/regular DVD, would it not?

Admittedly I haven't downloaded anything HD from Apple but I have a feeling that on my ACD it wouldn't look any different at all from regular non-HD content...correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

you're probably right, except perhaps for the 17" screen, but even then its quite small to be able to differentiate 1080p content.

But i don't think the point of bluray on a laptop is to use it as a primary viewing method. Since I started collecting blurays, I've stopped buying DVDs. So if I want to watch a movie on my laptop, I currently have no way to do that. I need my drives around the house to be compatible, so my one disc purchase is viewable anywhere - thats the main reason I'd want bluray in my laptop.


Oh and it'd be lovely on a 27" iMac :)
 
Why does everyone keep making the same points over and over again in these Blu-Ray arguments, even after they've been countered?

The most significant points in favor of Blu-Ray have already been mentioned: complete digital distribution is still far off due to internet speeds and quality issues (even iTunes HD looks like utter crap compared to Blu-Ray). This last point, by the way, is the reason why Blu-Ray would not "compete" with iTunes at all if it were present in every Mac, and everyone who thinks about this for more than a second realizes this. The iTunes-store is all about convenience, and NOT about quality. If you want quality, you'll have to go with the optical medium, which offers you content in (near-)lossless quality. CDs don't compete with the iTunes store for this reason, and neither would Blu-Ray. If I truly want to see a movie at the best quality currently available, I will always get the Blu-Ray and definitely not the iTunes-"HD-version. If I'm just really in the mood for a movie, I might get the iTunes-version, because it's more convenient than going out and buying/renting a Blu-Ray. So, for now digital distribution and physical media cater to completely different needs; they do not actually compete, they COMPLEMENT each other. I wish Apple would realize this. They will only start competing once Apple offers their movies in true 1080p on the iTunes store.
Yaddyaddyadda. Oh, and BR would look awesome on the MBPs, IF Apple offered them with FullHD screens, like, you know, all their competitors do with their laptops.

Also, I have made this point before, but I seem to have to make it once again: the major reason I believe digital distribution is still quite far from taking over is that it's currently only really available in the United States. It's arrogant to presume that every Apple-customer lives in the US. I'm European and I can't buy or rent movies on the iTunes store, let alone stream Netflix. We. Do. Not. Have. That. Over. Here. We are tied to physical media. So stop arrogantly proclaiming physical media dead, give me Blu-Ray and come back when the iTunes store offers movies all over the world at Blu-Ray quality and I have a 2 TB SSD and 1GB-internet. Seriously.
 
Tyrion said:
If I truly want to see a movie at the best quality currently available, I will always get the Blu-Ray and definitely not the iTunes-"HD-version.
Click to expand...

Apple's logic exactly. If one truly wants to see a higher quality movie, then he or she will go get the actual Bluray disc and not buy the iTunes HD movie, but since Apple is depriving you of the ability to watch a Bluray disc on their computer, you are essentially "forced" to get it from the iTunes Store. Or other various illegal ways.
 
....and this is why Apple (or the founder/CEO) is an arrogant company thinking that people only use their products/services and don't adopt other current technology. For the sake of $50 premium for a BD drive it should be offered as an option.

Apple should pull their name from the BDA if they have no interest in supporting BD.

The Mini DisplayPort that Apple has on their computers could easily be modified to support HDMI signals since they have basically made it output DVI signals through the DisplayPort currently when connected to a DisplayPort-DVI connection. The electronics in the Mac is handling this and they keep the same port connection. They could put in the electronics to output HDMI (likely just a chip onboard).

There is a connector available from Monoprice that will combine the DVI from the display and the digital USB audio and output HDMI... not sure if it does 5.1 but at least you could get sound out and spit out via HDMI.

I have a PS3 in my home theatre and would use this or a dedicated BD player primarily for viewing obviously but the ability to take the discs anywhere and watch them is what most people are looking for, not necessarily the resolution.

Download caps and bandwidth capacity will be an issue for the forseeable future especially world wide and I can't see downloading becoming mainstream for a long time to come. I don't like being tied to DRM that is computer dependent, etc and downloads lack the ability to hand the disc to someone else to watch, etc I don't want to have to pay to download something multiple times and I don't want to be tied to a single company for this. Also I want the ability to keep a copy of my favourites and not have to worry about capacity or the loss of the content due to h/w failure, etc
 
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