A question about ebay...

[cr2sh]

Alright, I'm in a bit of an odd situation. I sold an unlocked phone on ebay about a month ago. This particular model was a Motorola a630, a flip camera phone with a qwerty keyboard. I bought the phone myself off of ebay and used it for a few weeks but I was unhappy with it. As it turns out these phones have really poor reception, its just a flaw in the design. When I was in my home network it worked fine, but if I got out into the country it just couldn't keep a signal.

After looking at reviews of this phone I saw several complaints about this so I chalked it up as a loss and bought a different phone. Well, the a630 sat on my desk for a while and eventually I decided to resell it on ebay.

So the auction went and there was a lot of interest and after seven days there was a high bidder and lucky me.. he payed about the same as what I bought it for.

I was so stoked. I only lost like $10 or something. Fine with me.

So I get the money from the buyer and ship it out to him. When I ship it it works fine, its unlocked, it just gets poor reception in remote areas.

So he has it a week and emails me. He says "this phone isnt unlocked, i want my money back." I of course responded that it WAS unlocked, I'd used it myself.. and I mention the poor reception.

He acknowledges that he is in a pretty far out in the country and doesn't get much signal... but says that he's unhappy with the phone. He asks for his money back.

I, of course, tell him no. There's nothing wrong with the phone, every a630 he buys will be like that and I didn't offer a "satisfaction guaranteed or your money back" in the ebay auction... so he bought what he bought. If he didn't know what he was buying originally, that's not my problem.

He responds and I quote "How about minus the shipping costs?"

I still tell him no. As ifI'm suppossed to eat the ebay and paypal fee's, eat the shipping and then resell it because he didn't know what he was buying.

I thought all was said and done until today when the phone arrived at my doorstep. No note, no nothing.. just the phone as I shipped it out to him.

What am I supposed to do now? Do I have an obligation to do anything?

 

[Zwhaler]

Ship it back to him. He is obviously trying to force money out of you, ship it back and tell him its his problem. Either that or you can keep it and claim to him that you are under no obligation to send it back

 

[pianoman]

i have no legal training in this area, but i would say that you are not obligated to do anything. i'd even go so far as to say you should re-list the phone if you're still interested in selling it.

 

[pseudobrit]

Alright, I'm in a bit of an odd situation. I sold an unlocked phone on ebay about a month ago. This particular model was a Motorola a630, a flip camera phone with a qwerty keyboard. I bought the phone myself off of ebay and used it for a few weeks but I was unhappy with it. As it turns out these phones have really poor reception, its just a flaw in the design. When I was in my home network it worked fine, but if I got out into the country it just couldn't keep a signal.

After looking at reviews of this phone I saw several complaints about this so I chalked it up as a loss and bought a different phone. Well, the a630 sat on my desk for a while and eventually I decided to resell it on ebay.

So the auction went and there was a lot of interest and after seven days there was a high bidder and lucky me.. he payed about the same as what I bought it for.

I was so stoked. I only lost like $10 or something. Fine with me.

So I get the money from the buyer and ship it out to him. When I ship it it works fine, its unlocked, it just gets poor reception in remote areas.

So he has it a week and emails me. He says "this phone isnt unlocked, i want my money back." I of course responded that it WAS unlocked, I'd used it myself.. and I mention the poor reception.

He acknowledges that he is in a pretty far out in the country and doesn't get much signal... but says that he's unhappy with the phone. He asks for his money back.

I, of course, tell him no. There's nothing wrong with the phone, every a630 he buys will be like that and I didn't offer a "satisfaction guaranteed or your money back" in the ebay auction... so he bought what he bought. If he didn't know what he was buying originally, that's not my problem.

He responds and I quote "How about minus the shipping costs?"

I still tell him no. As ifI'm suppossed to eat the ebay and paypal fee's, eat the shipping and then resell it because he didn't know what he was buying.

I thought all was said and done until today when the phone arrived at more doorstep. No note, no nothing.. just the phone as I shipped it out to him.

What am I suppossed to do now? Do I have an obligation to do anything?

Did you sign for anything? You could always mark it "return to sender." I'd offer to credit him his money minus shipping, listing and eBay fees. That brings you back to square one and shuts his stupid ass up.

eBay buyers have been pissing me off lately. The stupid/deadbeat bidder to competent/serious bidder ratio is going down precipitously.

 

[todd2000]

As long as you didn't claim that it got great reception in your auction your fine, and under no obligation to give him a refund. He knew what he was buying, and as long as you made no false claims theres nothing him, or eBay, or PayPal etc... can legally do to you. If the package was UPS or FedEX, and you haven't opened it yet, you should just be able to bring it to the local FedEX or UPS ship center, and "Refuse Delivery". Technically you have to do this at time of delivery, but I've done it after as long as the box isn't opened.

All that being said, it might just be easier to give him a refund just to shut him up, and avoid negative feedback.

 

[Koodauw]

If it was done via Paypal, I'd watch for charge backs. I'm sure that's his next step. I doubt your responsible in anyways, but once they take that money, watch out, Its like fighting the IRS to get it reversed.

 

[GoCubsGo]

If it was done via Paypal, I'd watch for charge backs. I'm sure that's his next step. I doubt your responsible in anyways, but once they take that money, watch out, Its like fighting the IRS to get it reversed.

I'd give him 80% of the cash and call it restocking that is 80% after you deduct the paypal, ebay, shipping fees. Tell him Stupid Should Hurt and be done with it.
Relist and have a great day.

 

[cr2sh]

I've removed all money from my paypal account, so paypal can't sweep in and do a post back. I very highly doubt they can just take the funds from my checking without my authorization... so there's no way he's getting the cash back unless I give it to him.

That said, I'm not sure I will. This guy (kid I assume) may not quite be sure how ebay works. I am not a store. I do not take returns. I sell something because I want to get rid of it.. and I sure as hell don't want to ship items out for people to play with and then a month later have to refund the price and waste my time. This is what he's doing, I've told him no already. He took it upon himself to ship it back to me in order to try to force me to give him his money back. The last thing I'm going to do his give in to his naive, strong arm tactics and refund money.

We'll see.

 

[Eraserhead]

I've removed all money from my paypal account, so paypal can't sweep in and do a post back. I very highly doubt they can just take the funds from my checking without my authorization... so there's no way he's getting the cash back unless I give it to him.

Are they linked to your bank account? I would call your bank and tell them that Paypal have no right to take the money from your account, and cancel the direct debit if there is one (may be a UK thing), as then they can take money without your permission. If they are anything like my bank they'll understand that Paypal aren't great .

 

[Kwyjibo]

Are they linked to your bank account? I would call your bank and tell them that Paypal have no right to take the money from your account, and cancel the direct debit if there is one (may be a UK thing), as then they can take money without your permission. If they are anything like my bank they'll understand that Paypal aren't great .

from what I understand, paypal can not do this. Instead they can place a negative amount in your paypal account. The next time you try to use paypal, the amount withdrawn will be that negative amount plkus whatever you spent. So in other news, do not use your paypal account until you're sure this is over.

 

[Eraserhead]

from what I understand, paypal can not do this.

I believe they can in the UK, I'd be suprised if they couldn't, it's like a hotel can claim money on your credit card if you leave without paying.

 

[devman]

They can do plenty. http://www.paypalsucks.com/

 

[phungy]

How did you ship the phone as in which carrier? If you shipped it with a tracking number then you're safe in case he decides to file a dispute against you.

Otherwise he wasted his money shipping the phone back to you. I'd just keep it and resell it.

 

[cr2sh]

I have a filed a bidder dispute form with ebay. There's a box that allows me to say "The buyer and I have agreed not to complete this transaction." "The buyer has returned or will be returning the item for a refund." When he gets this he may eagerly agree to it and accept it. After that he can't leave me negative feedback.

Since I didn't give refund terms and he now wants a refund I think I can either deny the refund or specify my refund terms. Which will be hefty.

The trick will be to get him to sign off on giving up the right to leave feedback first... if he does that, I'll go from there.

 

[cr2sh]

Well he accepted the "We have agreed not to complete this transaction" option and now is incapable of leaving feedback for me.

I've got his phone. My money. And he can't leave feedback for me.

That may not stop him from trying to take action via paypal, but I'll have to look at the numbers and see what ebay, paypal, and my time wasted fees should be.

Can anyone think of a way to refund the money that would be a huge pain in the ass for him to cash?

If I sent it to him in canadian pennies or some ****... none of it rolled up.

--

Better yet, I go to a bank and get the money exchanged for several different kinds of currency, put it all loose in a box and mail it back to him.

 

[dogbone]

Paypal *can* do some very unusual things. You should also be aware that feedback can still be left whether the transaction is completed or not.

While I sympathise with your position you need to realise that this has all been of your own doing. While you did not lie, you were, as they say, being economical with the truth.

The correct action would have been to state the reason for selling the phone, in the ad.

One lesson that we all learn (or not, as the case may be) as we move though the university of life, is the value of peace of mind. If you have learned this lesson then the entire episode has not been without worth.

 

[cr2sh]

The correct action would have been to state the reason for selling the phone, in the ad.

I'm not sure, but you might have missed the point. The problem is a flaw in the design. It is not a special condition or anything, every A630 has this. It's not a matter of me being economical with the truth.

When I bought the phone it didn't say anything about poor reception but if I'd done research I would have seen this fact. This is a business transaction, not an emotional, hand holding, consultation.

I have no obligation whatsoever to spell out flaws in the design.

If I was selling a powerbook g4 on ebay would I have an obligation to state "These have a tendency to get very hot during typical usage"? No, of course not, that would by the opposite of marketing.

I stated very clearly what the phone was, what was included and the used condition of it. The buyer has the responsibility to do research, I don't have to do it for him.

 

[dogbone]

@cr2sh

>I'm not sure, but you might have missed the point.

I can assure you I did get the point. But I'm not sure you got my point.

I fully understand that it is a design flaw and not a damaged item. I also understand that were it not for the 'design flaw' you would not be selling it.

Had you researched the phone you would not have bought it. But seeing as you have found out the hard way, while it is not encumbant upon you to educate anyone regarding their purchases, I can ask you the rhetorical question, how would you like to be treated.

Maybe if you just pointed out that it's not great for remote areas, you would have sold it to someone for whom it was suitable and this thread would not have existed. And you wouldn't be worrying about chargebacks or feedback.

Say you were walking in the bush and discovered that a sign was incorrect which caused you to take a wrong turn and you had to backtrack, as you leave the area you see someone about to make the same mistake you did. Do you tell them? How would you wish to be treated. Do you not tell them reasoning that the lesson that they learn will do them in good stead for the future?

The art of life is all about peace of mind. You are obviously concerned that you could have gotten a chargeback, and you obviously are concerned about feedback. You can still get bad feedback.

Technically you have done nothing wrong and I'm not saying you have, I'm just pointing out that in every course of action we have a choice. Some choices are better than others. The choices we make depend on our values in life.

 

[cr2sh]

Say you were walking in the bush and discovered that a sign was incorrect which caused you to take a wrong turn and you had to backtrack, as you leave the area you see someone about to make the same mistake you did. Do you tell them? How would you wish to be treated. Do you not tell them reasoning that the lesson that they learn will do them in good stead for the future?

We may just have to agree to disagree on this matter.

In order for yours to be an accurate analogy, I would have had to pay a fee at the decision making point and upon my return to the original point I would have had to charge a similar fee to the other hikers. There would have been fees associated with the transaction and if they changed their mind half way down the path, they would expect me to refund their money and wait for more hikers. The idea doesn't even make any sense really.

Your analogy is inaccurate to say the least.

Lastly, and most interestingly, I think... the problem with the phone was not a result of remote areas as I had experienced. He was attempting to use the phone on a Cingular network and this phone does not support those frequencies. If he had done his research, as I should have, he would he realized this phone is not compatible with Cingular. He bought something that will not work for his provider and that also, I think, should not be my problem.

Again, I just can't help but think of the powerbook g4 I owned three years ago.. I sold it because it was too slow for my taste. Accordingly to your morality, it would have been important for me to state in the auction "I'm selling this laptop because it is too slow" and that idea just seems kind of silly to me.

Again, we might just have to disagree on this one. Your ideas are very interesting though and I can appreciate the good will and kindness of it all.