A stupid question..

[rjett]

Mac OS X is Unix based, so why can't it be installed on a PC?

 

[firewire2001]

Re: A stupid question..

Originally posted by rjett
Mac OS X is Unix based, so why can't it be installed on a PC?

this isnt really very stupid...

its cause of the way that its compiled... so basically when you compile something it has code that goes to the cpu and the mmotherboard and all that... so basically there are complex instructions for the cpu to do different functions -- functions that ell the processor to do everything you see..

technically apple could compile a version of os x for windows.. but the main problem is that it wouldnt be compatible with everything... so ou couldnt even get the instructions to the cpu because it wouldnt be compatible with the motherboard...

basically apple has done this, though.. darwin is the unix underpinnings of os x which CAN be run on a pc.. but its nothing but a console... you cant run any mac apps on there...

does this answer your question?

"there arent any stupifd questions.. just stupid answers"

 

[rjett]

thanks! I guess it wasn't that stupid of a question after all. Now my next question how can I install OS X on a Performa 410! haha.

 

[D0ct0rteeth]

nice post firewire.

Originally posted by rjett
thanks! I guess it wasn't that stupid of a question after all. Now my next question how can I install OS X on a Performa 410! haha.

step 1: sell the performa

 

[rjett]

No one wants to buy it.

 

[Sun Baked]

step NeXT: Read the side of the OS X Box.

Usually listed under "System Requirements"

Confirm that your hardware can run Mac OS X Version 10.2 Jaguar Mac OS X Version 10.2 requires a Power Mac G3, G4, G4 Cube; iMac; PowerBook G3, G4; iBook; or eMac computer; at least 128MB of physical RAM and a built-in display or a display connected to an Apple-supplied video card. Mac OS X does not support the original PowerBook G3 or processor upgrade cards. Verify your hardware is supported from the list below.

 

[rjett]

Darn.. guess i'm gonna have to rob the bank to get a new powermac.

 

[SilvorX]

save up money for a g4 imac or powermac (or whatever else mac u want) then when u buy a new mac, donate the puter to a school or something

 

[bousozoku]

UNIX version 7 ran pretty well on the 68010 or 68020 and it would be possible to get a version of Darwin onto 68030 hardware, but the GUI part of Mac OS X takes too much power.

 

[firewire2001]

Originally posted by rjett
thanks! I guess it wasn't that stupid of a question after all. Now my next question how can I install OS X on a Performa 410! haha.

haha.. its actually possible!

think unsupported...

http://eshop.macsales.com/osxcenter/XPostFacto/...

it may support your system.. you may want to PM mc68k as he seems to know a lot of the sort...

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by firewire2001
it may support your system.. you may want to PM mc68k as he seems to know a lot of the sort...

The performa 410 is not a PCI-based mac, and therefore not supported. The only reason Old World mac support is possible is because of the Beige G3. The Beige G3 is really close to a OW mac, so as long as Apple keeps it on the support list, then mods can be made to support machines close in configuration.

The performa is prob nubus based, even if it has no nubus slots.

 

[firewire2001]

Originally posted by mc68k
The performa 410 is not a PCI-based mac, and therefore not supported. The only reason Old World mac support is possible is because of the Beige G3. The Beige G3 is really close to a OW mac, so as long as Apple keeps it on the support list, then mods can be made to support machines close in configuration.

The performa is prob nubus based, even if it has no nubus slots.

oh.. i see.. my bad..

what does it mean to be "nubus based"? is that different standard in the calss of pci and agp..? or...?

 

[mc68k]

Re: A stupid question..

Originally posted by rjett
Mac OS X is Unix based, so why can't it be installed on a PC?

There is an x86 version of Darwin, the Unix underbelly of X. It's just a CLI. So technically Darwin runs on x86, but not OS X. The latest version of Darwin as of 10.2 is v6.0.

Unix is made to be portable, with a core or kernel being made of pure platform-dependent machine code, with it's libraries being made from C. So Darwin is relatively "easy" to port.

But all the Aqua interface is Apple owned, under the FreeBSD license, so that will not be ported unless Apple wills it so.

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by firewire2001


oh.. i see.. my bad..

what does it mean to be "nubus based"? is that different standard in the calss of pci and agp..? or...?

NuBus was an Apple's first stab at "standardized" expansion on the mac. It was a proprietary design that ran about the same time as ISA/EISA. PCI slots run at 33MHz, Nubus runs at like 2-3 times slower than this (I'm not sure of the exact figure).

NuBus was dropped in favor of PCI in the 4400, 5500, and 7200 series of macs first, AFAIK. The 7200 is has a 601 and the others a 603e. You see more 601-based systems today than 603-based.

 

[noht*]

aside from not being pci-based, the 410 would probably suffer a bit from its 68030 which does not support the PPC instruction set that OSX is compiled for. It's rated at 16 Mhz, too
(Talking 'bout Megahertz Myths)


noht*

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by noht*
aside from not being pci-based, the 410 would probably suffer a bit from its 68030 which does not support the PPC instruction set that OSX is compiled for. It's rated at 16 Mhz, too
(Talking 'bout Megahertz Myths)


noht*

Yeah, the best you could prob do is a 68k mklinux. The box is worth very little. You could put in a network card throught the PDS slot, but that's it for expandibility. The network card alone is prob worth as much as the machine itself.

 

[Paolo]

Re: Re: A stupid question..

Originally posted by mc68k
There is an x86 version of Darwin, the Unix underbelly of X. It's just a CLI. So technically Darwin runs on x86, but not OS X. The latest version of Darwin as of 10.2 is v6.0.

Unix is made to be portable, with a core or kernel being made of pure platform-dependent machine code, with it's libraries being made from C. So Darwin is relatively "easy" to port.

But all the Aqua interface is Apple owned, under the FreeBSD license, so that will not be ported unless Apple wills it so.

Your kidding right... relatively easy to port, relative to what? swimming with no arms or legs????

It's actually quite difficult to port... try doing it your self and I'm sure you'll find it hard!

 

[topicolo]

Originally posted by firewire2001


oh.. i see.. my bad..

what does it mean to be "nubus based"? is that different standard in the calss of pci and agp..? or...?

The performa 410 isn't nubus based, it's PDS based (processor direct slot). It was just a fancy schmancy LC II (I have one). 10mb of ram max, 40-120mb hd, 512k VRAM max, 16Mhz 68030 and no cd. It came in what was then called the "pizza box" design because it looked like and probably was slower than a pizza box. The cool thing about it is that the 68030 doesn't even need a heatsink. If you touched the processor while it was running, it only felt warm.

How things have changed...

 

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by mc68k
NuBus was an Apple's first stab at "standardized" expansion on the mac. It was a proprietary design that ran about the same time as ISA/EISA. PCI slots run at 33MHz, Nubus runs at like 2-3 times slower than this (I'm not sure of the exact figure).

NuBus was dropped in favor of PCI in the 4400, 5500, and 7200 series of macs first, AFAIK. The 7200 is has a 601 and the others a 603e. You see more 601-based systems today than 603-based.

Btw, did you know that Nubus was a trademark of Texas Instruments? That was a complete surprise to me. It seems as though the bus speed was kinda odd like 11.3 MHz.

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by bousozoku


Btw, did you know that Nubus was a trademark of Texas Instruments? That was a complete surprise to me. It seems as though the bus speed was kinda odd like 11.3 MHz.

Sounds about right. I didn't know it was TI. Apple was the only major computer manufacturer that adopted of it, that's how come I thought it was them.

PCI is Intel invented.

 

[mc68k]

Re: Re: Re: A stupid question..

Originally posted by Paolo


Your kidding right... relatively easy to port, relative to what? swimming with no arms or legs????

It's actually quite difficult to port... try doing it your self and I'm sure you'll find it hard!

Notice these? ->"easy"<-

I don't know how to port code, but for a team at Apple, it shouldn't be hard. The kernel would have to be re-written. I thought that the kernel is the only machine-specific part of Unix. The rest is written in C, so it can be easily portable. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[firewire2001]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A stupid question..

Originally posted by mc68k
Notice these? ->"easy"<-

I don't know how to port code, but for a team at Apple, it shouldn't be hard. The kernel would have to be re-written. I thought that the kernel is the only machine-specific part of Unix. The rest is written in C, so it can be easily portable. Correct me if I'm wrong.

well.. mac os x isnt what id call "portable"... id call the underpinnings portable, but not the whole system..

perhaps they could re-compile os x for x86.. it would be quite a lot of work to get devices running, etc.. but aside from that it is possible.

however, the biggest problem that i see that almost everyone is overlooking is the fact that ppc applications are compiled to give instructions to the processor - appc processor.. so a huge chunk of the os would have to be re-written to support emulation so that applications would run in the first place... apple could re-compile their own apps.. but think about all the other apps out there.. it would be a real pain to re-compile then and sell them for PC, Mac PPC, and Mac x86... especially apps that take advantage of hardware.. and think about all the thrid party vendors that would have to re-write a lot of their drivers to support the different protocols that run on the motherboard...

-f

 

[mc68k]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A stupid question..

Originally posted by firewire2001


well.. mac os x isnt what id call "portable"...

Me neither. I was talking about Darwin. Mac OS X would have to be re-written for SSE from Altivec among other things. The whole of Mac OS X would be difficult, of course.

 

[topicolo]

Originally posted by mc68k
Sounds about right. I didn't know it was TI. Apple was the only major computer manufacturer that adopted of it, that's how come I thought it was them.

PCI is Intel invented.

Thank GOd they switched to PCI. Apple would've been gone by now if the only thing users could do to upgrade their macs was spend $1500 on an entry-level graphics card or $1000 for a 16bit sound card .