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A WARNING on the Vapor Pro

Stealthipad

Stealthipad

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Apr 30, 2010
3,223
7
I am sure it is know but before anyone make the mistake I did they need to realize that the Vapor Pro suck RF!

I have always got 3-4 bars with my iPhone 4 and 4S and with the black anodized model with carbon fiber back I only get 1-2 bars and for the first time ever saw the dreaded E for EDGE!:eek:

I also note that there was an additional 10-15% battery drop from my phone trying to maintain a good signal.

I removed it and back to 3-4 bars!:)

Anyone want to buy this at a discount PM me
 
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I take it this is an authentic Vapor Pro? Not one of the Chinese knockoffs right?
Just checking.
 
Metal cases will always do this.

There are many warning posts in the Element & other similar threads...

They simply go ignored.

Enjoy your Edge iPhone. :p
 
asleep said:
Metal cases will always do this.

There are many warning posts in the Element & other similar threads...

They simply go ignored.

Enjoy your Edge iPhone. :p
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It's not the metal case. The Element Pro does not significantly effect the 3G signal. In this case I'm sure it's the carbon fiber back. If YOU read the warning posts you would find out both of these facts. The polymer insert in the Pro allows the reception to work very well.
 
archrider said:
It's not the metal case. The Element Pro does not significantly effect the 3G signal. In this case I'm sure it's the carbon fiber back. If YOU read the warning posts you would find out both of these facts. The polymer insert in the Pro allows the reception to work very well.
Click to expand...

I have a Vapor 4 bumper as well (w/o no carbon fiber back) and I have no signal loss. So I think this could be the factor.
 
archrider said:
It's not the metal case. The Element Pro does not significantly effect the 3G signal. In this case I'm sure it's the carbon fiber back. If YOU read the warning posts you would find out both of these facts. The polymer insert in the Pro allows the reception to work very well.
Click to expand...


Just beacuse someone posts that something that agrees with your opinion doesn't turn an opinion into a fact.

Sticking to science, Carbon Fiber is a poor conductor which really should have very little impact on the electromagnetic field being generated by the iPhone antenna (unless of course there is metal somwhere underneath the carbon fiber).

On the other hand a metal bumper is in fact a conductor and regardless if it is touching your antenna or not, it will affect the electromagnetic field being emitted from your antenna. If it touches the antenna, it changes the impedance of the antenna so the reception and transmission will no longer be optimal as designed. If the conductive bumper is not touching, it still acts as a plate above the antenna which will cause some impact/absorbtion/attenuation to the field being transmitted by the antenna. The worst case will be if your metal bumper somehow becomes grounded, in this case it will absorb all the eletromagnetic fields being generated by the iPhone antenna (Faraday Cage).

However, fields emit from all directions of the antenna (360 degrees), so its entirely possible that you can still get a good reception even though you have something like a metal bumper modifying/impacting the antenna behavor on the outside. I suspect this is why some people show no change whatsoever when they use these aluminum bumpers. This doesn't say that the bumper didn't affect your signal, but rather your signal was strong enough anyways that the noise created by added the aluminum bumper didn't affect you.

Anyways, just thought I'd share my limited understanding as I noticed people were developing absolute statements based on collaborative empirical evidence. I too think these cases look pretty and I've honestly wanted to buy one myself. However the nerd inside just screams that I shouldn't do it lol.

Edit: looks like Carbon fiber is rather conductive which again would make it like a metal plate which could absorb the RF signals from your phone. Again it would only absorb all the signal if the plate were grounded. And you still have the other directions of the antenna which could broadcast and receive. However you are still limiting the effectiveness of your antenna. May not matter for some, may make a big difference for others
 
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If it's real carbon fiber, it's the carbon fiber.

I had a real carbon fiber case for my 3gs and had terrible reception with it. I found out when I later took the case off my reception jumped through the roof.
 
Knight^mare said:
Just beacuse someone posts that something that agrees with your opinion doesn't turn an opinion into a fact.

Sticking to science, Carbon Fiber is a poor conductor which really should have very little impact on the electromagnetic field being generated by the iPhone antenna (unless of course there is metal somwhere underneath the carbon fiber).

On the other hand a metal bumper is in fact a conductor and regardless if it is touching your antenna or not, it will affect the electromagnetic field being emitted from your antenna. If it touches the antenna, it changes the impedance of the antenna so the reception and transmission will no longer be optimal as designed. If the conductive bumper is not touching, it still acts as a plate above the antenna which will cause some impact/absorbtion/attenuation to the field being transmitted by the antenna. The worst case will be if your metal bumper somehow becomes grounded, in this case it will absorb all the eletromagnetic fields being generated by the iPhone antenna (Faraday Cage).

However, fields emit from all directions of the antenna (360 degrees), so its entirely possible that you can still get a good reception even though you have something like a metal bumper modifying/impacting the antenna behavor on the outside. I suspect this is why some people show no change whatsoever when they use these aluminum bumpers. This doesn't say that the bumper didn't affect your signal, but rather your signal was strong enough anyways that the noise created by added the aluminum bumper didn't affect you.

Anyways, just thought I'd share my limited understanding as I noticed people were developing absolute statements based on collaborative empirical evidence. I too think these cases look pretty and I've honestly wanted to buy one myself. However the nerd inside just screams that I shouldn't do it lol.
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OMG I can't believe we're getting into this argument again (previously the argument was about the Element 4, never the Pro model). Not only does the metal not touch the phone there are gaps in the metal that allows for good signal attenuation with this particular case. I have this case it works as well as a caseless phone everywhere I go. You could probably find 50 posts in the Element thread that agree and I think none that disagree. If you Google fairly scientifically preformed tests you will find that they state that this case has maybe a 1 or 2 db drop if any. some actually say there is an improvement. Your empirical evidence doesn't prove anything. There are many variables and a blanket metal cage argument is not necessarily the absolute reality. Isn't it possible that the interaction of these two metal bands may improve the signal. You will probably say you can't argue with physics. The sample of people successfully using this case without complaint is scientific evidence to me.

There are also many, many posts stating that the real carbon fiber back degrades the Iphone's signal. Please read posts 4017 to 4021 of the Element Vapor thread. This is a small example.

I am kind of shocked someone is arguing this.


I just read your paragragh explaining how it can work for me or some people. Sorry I went into my rant without reading that. But really, I've been reading the Element thread from the start and I don't think I've read a single complaint about the Pro's 3G reception. The WiFi and GPS maybe.

Here's the first review I've just relocated. It's not particularly scientific but there are others that are.

http://www.runaroundtech.com/2011/06/02/review-element-case-vapor-pro-spectra/
 
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If you've got the carbon fiber (a real carbon fiber) back on it, I'd be about 99.9% sure that's the source of your reception issues. As I stated in another thread, real carbon fiber is absolutely horrible for RF. I have witnessed this myself in my reviewing of cases (also confirmed by other fellow reviewers) that true carbon fiber backs (whether the adhesive or screw on backs) can negatively impact reception. I have tested true carbon backs from Element, Atomic, and Lucky Labs and all have about the same -10dB drop in signal (which would only be about a "bar" of signal strength), but signal impact can vary based on geographic location. Maybe in your location, it's having a greater impact than what I see here in GA. I have a prototype full carbon fiber case (very thin, almost identical in design to the Incipio Feather, but full carbon fiber) that when installed, competely trashes my iPhone 4's reception. It will take it from 3-4 bars to "No Signal" almost immediately. So I'd almost bet my life most of your signal loss is coming from the true CF backplate. I own 2 Vapor Pros (authentic), and the case only (no CF backplate) doesn't affect my reception at all. In fact, with my white Vapor Pro, it truly (somehow) improves my reception a few dB consistently. I'm known for not being a big fan of Element's customer service side of things, but they made a rock solid product with the Vapor Pro.
 
chris975d said:
If you've got the carbon fiber (a real carbon fiber) back on it, I'd be about 99.9% sure that's the source of your reception issues. As I stated in another thread, real carbon fiber is absolutely horrible for RF. I have witnessed this myself in my reviewing of cases (also confirmed by other fellow reviewers) that true carbon fiber backs (whether the adhesive or screw on backs) can negatively impact reception. I have tested true carbon backs from Element, Atomic, and Lucky Labs and all have about the same -10dB drop in signal (which would only be about a "bar" of signal strength), but signal impact can vary based on geographic location. Maybe in your location, it's having a greater impact than what I see here in GA. I have a prototype full carbon fiber case (very thin, almost identical in design to the Incipio Feather, but full carbon fiber) that when installed, competely trashes my iPhone 4's reception. It will take it from 3-4 bars to "No Signal" almost immediately. So I'd almost bet my life most of your signal loss is coming from the true CF backplate. I own 2 Vapor Pros (authentic), and the case only (no CF backplate) doesn't affect my reception at all. In fact, with my white Vapor Pro, it truly (somehow) improves my reception a few dB consistently. I'm known for not being a big fan of Element's customer service side of things, but they made a rock solid product with the Vapor Pro.
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As an owner of Vapor COMP that came with matte CF back, thanks for the info - I won't put it on. Have you heard of problems with titanium backs? I really like Mas Elements backs, but don't want it to kill reception on my 4s.
 
Rusdude said:
As an owner of Vapor COMP that came with matte CF back, thanks for the info - I won't put it on. Have you heard of problems with titanium backs? I really like Mas Elements backs, but don't want it to kill reception on my 4s.
Click to expand...

I've got 3 of the MAS Elements Ti backs (I was in the initial testing batch), and yes, I get a pretty significant amount of reception degradation with them. About 1 to 1 1/2 "bars" of service. What we found early on with the MAS Ti backs is that the reduction in reception varied GREATLY with geographic location. Another reviewer friend on mine a couple of states away showed almost no reception hit with his MAS backs.
 
I grabbed my friends carbon fiber case and a multi meter. Turns out it is conductive lol. Looks like I have to edit my post above. I thought it wasn't very conductive at all because of the insulating fibers they use within the carbon fiber.

Since it is conductive, it again can act a faraday cage absorbing or modifying the field lines coming from your antenna. Looks like I need to modify my post above.
 
chris975d said:
I've got 3 of the MAS Elements Ti backs (I was in the initial testing batch), and yes, I get a pretty significant amount of reception degradation with them. About 1 to 1 1/2 "bars" of service. What we found early on with the MAS Ti backs is that the reduction in reception varied GREATLY with geographic location. Another reviewer friend on mine a couple of states away showed almost no reception hit with his MAS backs.
Click to expand...

You're killing my dreams :p I like JackBacks, but don't think they go with black/red COMP... I got a brushed metal Teksure skin from Lucky Labs, but a full-on replacement back would be cooler.
 
Anyone who is looking to purchase a second hand authentic Vapor case from a private seller should certainly request a copy of the invoice from Element. It's next to impossible to tell a knockoff from an authentic otherwise.
 
yep, gotta show proof. The knockoff is almost identical, including all the accessories.

der-kaiser said:
Anyone who is looking to purchase a second hand authentic Vapor case from a private seller should certainly request a copy of the invoice from Element. It's next to impossible to tell a knockoff from an authentic otherwise.
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Can you give me the pic of it? I have been searching for it for a long time.....:D
 
chris975d said:
If you've got the carbon fiber (a real carbon fiber) back on it, I'd be about 99.9% sure that's the source of your reception issues.
Click to expand...

What about fake carbon fiber like the 3M Di-Noc?

I have one installed recently and I think I've been losing 1 bar from time to time. The sides are covered in brushed alumunium 3M wraps similar to the Lucky Labs wraps.

I thought it was the result of ditching my case, but I tried to put a TPU case on top of the wraps and I was still losing one bar.

Not keen to take the CF back off to do further tests.
 
Simple answer to all this...

You have an aluminum bumper around your phone. To top this off, you also put a carbon fiber backing on the phone (this only applies if you use a real carbon fiber backing like from Lucky Labs). You just doubled your chances of signal loss. Add this to a weak signal area and you just screwed yourself.

Take the backing off and see how your reception is with the case alone. Carbon fiber will block your signal worse than the aluminum that has some padding between the antenna unlike your carbon fiber backing.
 
der-kaiser said:
Anyone who is looking to purchase a second hand authentic Vapor case from a private seller should certainly request a copy of the invoice from Element. It's next to impossible to tell a knockoff from an authentic otherwise.
Click to expand...

Seriously pisses me off that the Chinese can get away with this kind of BS. It's almost as bad as the beats by dre headphones. I mean come on this stuff is actually MADE IN THE USA.

What you guys don't get is if everyone stopped buying the knockoffs then the price of the real thing would actually drop to a more reasonable amount.
 
jdsun1 said:
Seriously pisses me off that the Chinese can get away with this kind of BS. It's almost as bad as the beats by dre headphones. I mean come on this stuff is actually MADE IN THE USA.

What you guys don't get is if everyone stopped buying the knockoffs then the price of the real thing would actually drop to a more reasonable amount.
Click to expand...

Screw you buddy. People like you piss me off with this misinformed ignorant pro "buy American" bs. Tell me what clothes you wear. Tell me what car you drive. Tell me where every single component in your house came from. Tell me what brand computer you use. Tell me what TV brand you own.

Tell me where your iPhone was made. COMPLETE IGNORANCE.

All you "Buy American" people need to go back to school and pay attention in your economics classes. You want to support something for a good cause? BUY LOCAL. That is the only way you're going to make a very positive impact. Buy your produce from local farmers if you can. Support your local ma and pa shops. Go to local bakeries. Keep the jobs in your state.

Buy American... complete and utter trash of a slogan. Something you would realize if you took any economics class worth taking.

NEWS FLASH! BRANDS LIKE HONDA AND TOYOTA HAVE PLANTS RIGHT HERE IN THE USA. Ford has production in Mexico and also works with Mazda parts. Chrysler has long been using Mitsubishi parts.

Get over yourself. Would you be happier if these Chinese companies started naming their Vapor cases a different name with slightly tweaked design?

I GUARANTEE ELEMENT THEMSELVES OUTSOURCES AT LEAST ONE THING IN THEIR BUSINESS. GUARANTEE IT! Yea, they order aluminum overseas and assemble them in the USA probably. Again, complete garbage BUY USA comment. Yea, let's charge $150 for a case that's made from one of the cheapest and easiest metals to obtain and work with.

Nah, I rather dump $80 on a 100% real carbon fiber case which is much more durable, much more exotic, and much, much harder to work with.

Give me a valid reason to spend that much cash on a USA product. $150 aluminum bumper cases is not one of them. Want to know a Made in USA product that's worth every penny? Take a look at Never Summer snowboards. Hand-Made in Colorado with USA materials. High effin quality.
 
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