A world without AT&T?

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Imagine a world where the iPhone wasn't restricted to the tragedy that is AT&T... Imagine no plan cancelations, no 2 year contracts, and no inferior cell phone providers... That my friend is truly a desired world.

Why do you think Apple made AT&T the exclusive carrier of the iPhone? If you're thinking "Because they get a hefty sum from AT&T in return" well. my friends, you'd be absolutely correct. But still was it worth it? Or do you think Steve Jobs still has nightmares about the moment he made that decision?

Yes I'm sure the amount of retribution from AT&T is quite substantial, but I still can't imagine that this would outweight the effects of making the iPhone available to all. Apple has sold over 1 million iPhones... in under 3 months!! Try to comprehend the number sold if no plan was required. Over 2 million for sure, with 3 million just on the horizon. Jobs might not have even needed to make the price drop, at least not until closer to the holiday season. iPhones are sold for way more than they cost to make. With these kinds of substantial gross profit per iPhone just imagine the marginal profit that would have been accrued.

That's not even taking into account the increase in consumer base. "Hey, if an OS is this good on a phone imagine on a computer..."

AT&T is the number one complaint about the iPhone... and there is nothing Steve can do about it... at least not for a few years.

So what do you think? Do you think Apple should have not gone exclusive with AT&T? I probably would have bought one. Would you?

 

[CWallace]

Apple has sold over 1 million iPhones... in under 3 months!!

I would very much like to know what Apple felt the "penetration rate" for the iPhone would be. I am inclined to believe that, at least in part, Apple might have felt that it would not be one million units in three months and therefore wanted some security as well as someone to help "hold their hand" as they entered a totally new environment for them.

Also, while the iPhone is the ultimate phone now, will it be so in six months? Or twelve? Perhaps Apple is signing these deals to ensure that when the iPhone is superceded in the market by the next "best thing" and they need to cut the price down to $39 instead of $399, they have a nice revenue stream coming in from each unit sold.

Also, consider how much more difficult it would be for Apple to, out of the gate, support scores of GSM providers around the world? Because you know the most likely first stop for an iPhone customer with an issue is going to be their local Apple Store or 1-800-MY-APPLE. And many (if not most) of those customers are not going to take too kindly to being "handed off" to their local provider.

And I've been on AT&T since I bought my first cellphone, so frankly, having AT&T was a benefit to me, not a detriment.

 

[anubis]

I switched to AT&T from Verizon. I love AT&T. My verizon phone was a crippled piece of crap. The ability to use my own third party bluetooth accessories? The ability to download pictures off the phone with a cable? These are utterly foreign concepts for Verizon. Long live AT&T!!!

As a side note, I do believe Steve Jobs stated that the iPhone has the highest customer satisfaction rate of any product ever made by Apple. You whiners constantly talk about how the iPhone will fail, everyone hates it, everyone will abandon it, etc., but the customer satisfaction polls seem to paint a different story.

 

[RichP]

So much dribble on this forum about ATT, I dont understand it. Most people buy plans with contracts. If the phone was unlocked, the only other US Carrier would be T-Mobile. I dont see how that is much better than where we are. Its not a CDMA phone, so Verizon and Sprint are not options, nor can you even have an "unlocked" phone for either of those companies (no SIM)

Be grateful ATT agreed not to meddle in the iPhone UI, and give a reduced rate on the unlimited dataplan.

 

[rdowns]

<naive rant>

No offfense but before I see another of these rants, I'd like to see the marketing credentials of the people posting them.

Do you think ATT is any worse than any other carrier? Give me a break?

Jobs is likely happy as a pig in sh**. His first phone on the market is selling like gangbusters. He has gotten more free press than any other product since the Segway was introduced.

 

[PDE]

As a side note, I do believe Steve Jobs stated that the iPhone has the highest customer satisfaction rate of any product ever made by Apple. You whiners constantly talk about how the iPhone will fail, everyone hates it, everyone will abandon it, etc., but the customer satisfaction polls seem to paint a different story.

The point is that the iphone COULD (and may still in the future) have been the new ipod throughout the world if it had been sold unlocked and without long binding contracts and permanent shackles to various carriers. As it is, many countries might never get to enjoy the iphone , and many potential buyers both here and (especially) abroad will shy away from it because of the unprecedented greed and lack of customer understanding demonstrated in Apple's restrictive business plan.

BTW, I wouldn't really trust Steve to tell the whole truth about customer satisfaction...just a thought.

 

[question fear]

No offfense but before I see another of these rants, I'd like to see the marketing credentials of the people posting them.

Do you think ATT is any worse than any other carrier? Give me a break?

Jobs is likely happy as a pig in sh**. His forst phone on the market is selling like gangbusters. he has gotten more free press than any other product since the Segway was introduced.

Thank you! I am glad someone is pointing out these armchair analysts have as much credibility as the squirrels who live outside my window at predicting market trends.

To the OP:

Dude. First of all, welcome to the business world. We run on these green slips of paper and tiny shiny coins. If you do some work, you get the green slips. More green slips for more work. You can cash those slips in for other people's work in various places. We're thinking of calling the system "capitalism". It's only had several hundred years to develop, though, so we're not sure if this item in exchange for work and goods plan will work. So you say that if a company develops a product, and it sells well, they should revamp their business plan for having the audacity to make money with it? For shame! (on a related note, I suddenly hear a whirring noise...Ayn Rand is spinning so fast in her grave we could probably power NYC with it.)

It is a shame that they can't release the iphone simultaneously worldwide. Ok. Look, the phone is unquestionably a success no matter how you slice it. It's not going to serve everyone, or reach every corner of the world. It's not that different than people not being able to get the N95 in the USA for a long time, or not being able to take full advantage of it, due to the lack of American 3G. **** happens.

Also, a word on ATT: People may not like them but they flip flop regularly with Verizon as #1 and #2 in the USA cellular market. The Verizon horse has been beaten to death, composted, dug up, beaten again, a tree grew there, the tree got chopped down and beaten. Sprint and T-Mobile in the USA are honestly not big enough players for a company like Apple, releasing a huuuuuge hyped product, to waste their time with being exclusive there. So Apple went to #1 and #2, and only one of them chose to do it. Stop whining like ATT kicked your grandma and ate your dog.

 

[Sobe]

The point is that the iphone COULD (and may still in the future) have been the new ipod throughout the world if it had been sold unlocked and without long binding contracts and permanent shackles to various carriers. As it is, many countries might never get to enjoy the iphone , and many potential buyers both here and (especially) abroad will shy away from it because of the unprecedented greed and lack of customer understanding demonstrated in Apple's restrictive business plan.

BTW, I wouldn't really trust Steve to tell the whole truth about customer satisfaction...just a thought.

Basically what this is, is nothing more than a disconnect over whose vision of the iPhone should win out.

People like the OP want it to be their vision of the iPhone.

On the other hand, Apple has its own plans and designs.

Considering that people having these opinions had nothing to do with the creation, marketing, or development of the iPhone, for them to say how it should be sold after the fact when they themselves shoulder no risk or burden of any kind reveals how shallow the argument is.

Apple does not exist to sprinkle iPhones from the sky to every corner of the globe that may desire one.

 

[RichP]

Fundamental to the Apple Experience is ease of setup and use. Granted, there were issues with activation early on. However, most people dont buy unlocked phones. They dont go swapping SIM cards. Teaming with ATT gave people a familiar level of phone purchase and setup. It also ensured features like Visual Voicemail would work, and there would be no programming of the phone to get internet/email to work.

 

[aristobrat]

AT&T is the number one complaint about the iPhone...

Don't tell that to any of the gazillion people complaining about the version 1.1.1 bricking and lockdown!

 

[Unspeaked]

Don't tell that to any of the gazillion people complaining about the version 1.1.1 bricking and lockdown!

But aren't they tied together...?

 

[anubis]

The point is that the iphone COULD (and may still in the future) have been the new ipod throughout the world if it had been sold unlocked and without long binding contracts and permanent shackles to various carriers. As it is, many countries might never get to enjoy the iphone , and many potential buyers both here and (especially) abroad will shy away from it because of the unprecedented greed and lack of customer understanding demonstrated in Apple's restrictive business plan.

Steve Jobs doesn't care if the iPhone is the new iPod. No, Steve Jobs doesn't WANT the iPhone to be the new iPod. The iPod Touch is the new iPod. What difference does it make if Apple only sells a million iPhones because of "greed and lack of customer understanding" if they sell 100 million iPod Touches? If everyone person who bypasses the iPhone because of Apple's "restrictive business plan" buys an iPod Touch, does Apple really care? No.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

you forget one thing. Cingular did a lot to their network so it could deal with the iPhone. They had to set up for visual voice main and little things like that.

On top of that Apple needed ATT more than ATT needed Apple. With out that deal of locking it to their network it would of been no dice for the iPhone. No cell company would agree to help out apple unless they got a lock on the phone. Apple gets a lot more sells on the iPhone because it is with ATT than it would be if they did not go with ATT. Minus some fan boys and fanatics the iPhone would not of sold very well. A lot of people see it in the ATT store and buy it from there.

 

[calvy]

As an AT&T employee, I'm getting a huge kick out of this thread.

 

[PDE]

oh well, people seem very confident that ATT and Apple did the right thing and that the overall business plan makes sense so who am I to say anything different?


A few things:

a) visual voicemail: big ****ing deal! Nice? yes. Essential at the cost of being locked down? Noooo way.

b) 'the next ipod' doesn't mean LITERALLY the next ipod. It means 'the next huge success'. Is the iphone a huge success? In the U.S. it definitely is. Will it be elsewhere? Remains to be seen, but I doubt very much we'll see the craze that has been going on here and that, I believe, will be because of the way it is being marketed. Does it matter? Only Apple can answer that.

c) The ipod touch is not a an iphone without the phone. If it were, I would have bought one.

d) Just because a person didn't assume the risks of initial investment doesn't mean that s/he can't have valid assessments and opinions about Apple's business strategy. Do they have a say? As customers who can go elsewhere, they actually do. Will it make a difference? Who knows, sometimes it does - especially if the media starts writing about it too.

e) Isn't it absolutely fabulous to have total freedom of speech and be able to voice our opinions openly and freely? God Bless America and God Bless Apple and Master Jobs!

 

[scaredpoet]

a) visual voicemail: big ****ing deal! Nice? yes. Essential at the cost of being locked down? Noooo way.

That's your opinion. It's certainly not mine. See, this is the problem with armchair analysts: they operate under the assumption that they know better than anyone else how a product should operate. What's ironic is that they are so solecistic in their approach, yet they rail against the likes of Apple for being, well... solecistic.

The way I see it, if so-called "analysts," armchair, forum or otherwise, really knew their stuff and had sufficient knowledge to make their ideas of how an iPhone or any other product should work according to their grand scheme, then they would be doing a lot less "analyzing" and a lot more "making it happen." Doing rather than pontificating tends to be more profitable, anyway.

b) 'the next ipod' doesn't mean LITERALLY the next ipod. It means 'the next huge success'. Is the iphone a huge success? In the U.S. it definitely is. Will it be elsewhere?

You made that question irrelevant on your first post. The rail is against AT&T, and AT&T doesn't operate outside of the US.

ON THAT NOTE: I can guarantee you that if Apple has signed an agreement with Sprint isntead of AT&T, this thread would be titled "a world without Sprint." Same goes for any other carrier. And if the phone was sold unlocked, I'd bet real money that there would be threads railing against the "poor state" of cell phone service in the US in general, ignoring the fact that given the geographical challenges the US offers and compared to regions with similar challenges, we're actually doing comparatively well.

There are simply people in this world who make it their business to be unsatisfied, for the sake of being unsatisfied. And that's unfortunate.

c) The ipod touch is not a an iphone without the phone. If it were, I would have bought one.

There's that solecism again...

d) Just because a person didn't assume the risks of initial investment doesn't mean that s/he can't have valid assessments and opinions about Apple's business strategy.

You are welcome to your opinions. But do you have experience in product design an manufacturing? Have you marketed and sold any successful products? If not, then your opinion is not verifiably a "valid assessment." It is merely an opinion.

e) Isn't it absolutely fabulous to have total freedom of speech and be able to voice our opinions openly and freely?

Has anyone banned you yet? No? Then GOD BLESS AMERICA.

By the way: the first amendment does not give you (nor me) the explicit right to post here. It DOES give you the right to go off and lease server space and bandwidth and create your own blog, website or discussion forum where you can spout off opinions at will. You can even claim them to be "valid assessments" if you wish (as long as you're prepared to suffer the potential consequences). But it doesn't mean you can shield yourself from criticism here. Nor does it mean you can prevent others from disagreeing with you (except of course, on your own server, on your own website where you exercise control).

 

[Sobe]

By the way: the first amendment does not give you (nor me) the explicit right to post here. It DOES give you the right to go off and lease server space and bandwidth and create your own blog, website or discussion forum where you can spout off opinions at will. You can even claim them to be "valid assessments" if you wish (as long as you're prepared to suffer the potential consequences). But it doesn't mean you can shield yourself from criticism here. Nor does it mean you can prevent others from disagreeing with you (except of course, on your own server, on your own website where you exercise control).

Clarification:

It limits what congress can do to infringe on the right.

The right is inalienable, regardless of the presence or absence of any contract among the federal government, the states, or the people.

As far the point on opinions -- armchairing has probably been around since man could form speech.

Just because one hasn't done it, doesn't mean the observations about it cannot be valid.

What I would suggest, however, is that a little more credence be given to an entity like Apple with its impressive track record than a private citizen on the MacRumors forum.

It doesn't mean someone outside of Apple cannot make a valid observation about how they run their business, but rather when someone is going to question their business model and motives, the burden should be on the outsider with the lack of experience to demonstrate why the more experienced party is making the error.

 

[megfilmworks]

Those who can do, those who can't critique.

 

[scaredpoet]

Just because one hasn't done it, doesn't mean the observations about it cannot be valid.

I'm not saying all opinions are immediately invalid. I AM saying opinions are opinions, not facts, and their "validity" should be backed up, and we should not be expected to take that for granted. I submit that quite a few people would like us all to make the leap that their opinions are to be treated as indisputable gospel.

 

[megfilmworks]

a) visual voicemail: big ****ing deal! Nice? yes. Essential at the cost of being locked down? Noooo way.

For me visual voice mail is one of the most important features. And for me it is essential! When I have 20 or so voicemails it would take forever to call the old way and listen in a linear fashion. I need non linear voicemail or I waste the few moments I have
to check and answer the really important calls. Unlocking the phone is not a trade off for me at all. If I really need an iphone in Europe with a local number, I'll buy a European one and carry both phones. That's what most business travelers have been doing for over a decade, what's the big deal??

 

[plumbingandtech]

As an AT&T employee, I'm getting a huge kick out of this thread.

As a person that understands the real world dynamics of the current US phone system, I am too.


Now I have the John Lennon song in my head. GRrrrrrr....

 

[PhightinPhils26]

As an AT&T employee, I'm getting a huge kick out of this thread.

yeah so am i

 

[PDE]

For me visual voice mail is one of the most important features. And for me it is essential! When I have 20 or so voicemails it would take forever to call the old way and listen in a linear fashion. I need non linear voicemail or I waste the few moments I have
to check and answer the really important calls. Unlocking the phone is not a trade off for me at all. If I really need an iphone in Europe with a local number, I'll buy a European one and carry both phones. That's what most business travelers have been doing for over a decade, what's the big deal??

The deal is that it defeats the purpose of having one device - the wonderful integrated iphone, macos x in your pocket. Of course I could carry another phone with me when I travel, but the point of having a device that can do so much is to use it for different things under varied circumstances.

I recognise that people have different priorities, no disagreement there. Visual voicemail is just not mine if it means sacrificing other things that I think are generally more important.


"megfilmworks Those who can do, those who can't critique."

This is not the area that I 'do' in and if critiquing in areas that we are not totally proficient in is something to be avoided, then I think I am not the only one around here who should remain silent. I happen to believe that those that care critique and those are indifferent are silent, and believe that the best favour we can do for Apple is to be highly critical, questioning and demanding.

And that's what I intend to continue to do - critique as a gesture of affection... : )

 

[Bernie-Mac]

A world without AT&T

...is a world without purpose

 

[Sobe]

The deal is that it defeats the purpose of having one device - the wonderful integrated iphone, macos x in your pocket. Of course I could carry another phone with me when I travel, but the point of having a device that can do so much is to use it for different things under varied circumstances.

I recognise that people have different priorities, no disagreement there. Visual voicemail is just not mine if it means sacrificing other things that I think are generally more important.


"megfilmworks Those who can do, those who can't critique."

This is not the area that I 'do' in and if critiquing in areas that we are not totally proficient in is something to be avoided, then I think I am not the only one around here who should remain silent. I happen to believe that those that care critique and those are indifferent are silent, and believe that the best favour we can do for Apple is to be highly critical, questioning and demanding.

And that's what I intend to continue to do - critique as a gesture of affection... : )

If you travel a lot, have you considered emailing or calling Apple and asking if you can "buy out" a contract and have a legit unlocked phone that could be updated without risk?

Has anyone tried requesting that?