About SSD...

[Dronecatcher]

Interesting article here about using SSDs and/or SATA for PowerPC:

http://ppcluddite.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/more-ssd-lessons-from-adam-albrec.html

 

[Huginnmuninn]

Looking forward to the follow up on using SSDs with a TRS-80.

 

[eyoungren]

Looking forward to the follow up on using SSDs with a TRS-80.

Talk to @LightBulbFun

He has an Apple 1 with 100TB ram, a 1000TB HD and it's running Windows 10. He can help.

 

[Huginnmuninn]

Sounds like he needs some!

 

[bunnspecial]

I've done several SSD upgrades, and funny enough I haven't experienced the "rampant kernel panicks" that the author reports. In fact, I've never had a KP after doing an SSD upgrade that I could attribute to the SSD.

I've not installed an OWC ATA SSD, though. All the ones I've done have been any of various makes of mSATA in an ATA-SATA bridge. I did one for a co-worker a couple of weeks ago in a 17" PB, and he's been incredibly happy with it.

However you slice it, though, SSDs do make a dramatic improvement in how responsive and usable PowerBooks are.

 

[Dronecatcher]

I've done several SSD upgrades, and funny enough I haven't experienced the "rampant kernel panicks" that the author reports. In fact, I've never had a KP after doing an SSD upgrade that I could attribute to the SSD.

I was thinking that myself as I read it. I've only fitted one SSD (apart from Compact Flash installs on Amigas years ago) and that was painless and trouble free.
I think the article illustrates yet again that not all PowerPC experiences are equal for the same hardware.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Talk to @LightBulbFun

He has an Apple 1 with 100TB ram, a 1000TB HD and it's running Windows 10. He can help.

still working on that machine but in the meantime I did get Steam running on snow leopard

in regards to the SSD stuff, I will mention that OWC SSDs are quite bad, almost everyone I have talked to who has owned or worked with OWC SSDs has had some issue or nightmare story. they also use bad/outdated NAND and controllers. I highly recommend staying away from OWC SSDs.

 

[weckart]

in regards to the SSD stuff, I will mention that OWC SSDs are quite bad, almost everyone I have talked to who has owned or worked with OWC SSDs has had some issue or nightmare story. they also use bad/outdated NAND and controllers. I highly recommend staying away from OWC SSDs.

Just read some of the forum posts on the MBA and MBP threads about OWC SSDs for some anecdotal evidence. I went DIY on my MBA upgrade and it has been stable if not faster.

 

[bunnspecial]

Just read some of the forum posts on the MBA and MBP threads about OWC SSDs for some anecdotal evidence. I went DIY on my MBA upgrade and it has been stable if not faster.

The only OWC I've installed was in a "trash can" MP, and I installed it because the owner had bought a base model with 256gb and he wanted 2TB. OWC is the only option on these SSDs(at least if you want over 1TB). So far, it's worked fine but I've was less than impressed by the performance relative even to the factory drive(he gave it to me, and I have it now as a boot drive in my Mac Pro).

I'm big on Samsungs for most uses, and in fact I run a 1TB Evo in my 2012 MBP.

I did put SSDs in both my MBA 1,1 and 2,1. I was able to find a reasonably priced factory drive for the 2,1, which is good because the SATA interface is somewhat obscure and I'm not sure if anyone else outside OWC carries them.

For my 1,1, I went with a Kingspec SSD. I've overall been pretty underwhelmed with the performance. Since these share the same interface with the iPod Classic, I thought I'd not have any trouble finding an SSD solution. I bought a couple of mSATA adapters advertised for iPods, but none fit the ribbon cable correctly. Even so, it's better than the factory iPod drive in it(the factory drive from that computer is now in a friend's iPod classic).

 

[MagicBoy]

I've been using a Sandisk M.2 SATA SSD in the DLSD via a £6 eBay 2.5" IDE adapter for about a month now. It's not given me a jot of bother. No KPs, no beachballs. Just works.

I'd rather run a reliable brand of mSATA or M.2 SATA SSD in an IDE adapter than a no brand IDE "native" SSD. It's running mature firmware on a proven controller via a straight bridge chip, and the garbage collection is likely to be much better than an old design of IDE SSD from KingMAX or Kingspec etc.

 

[philgxxd]

I just saw Toshiba's A100 240gb Ssd at my supermarket for a good price so I will try to buy 2 or 3. If they aren't going to work in my MDD (have a cheap ide-sata adapter in there) or in my G5 quad (I heard they can be fincky about drives) I will use them in my MBP or ultimately in my only Windows desktop I have (old 2.66Ghz Intel Duo Core).

I hope to be able to report back soon.

 

[AphoticD]

I've been using a Sandisk M.2 SATA SSD in the DLSD via a £6 eBay 2.5" IDE adapter for about a month now. It's not given me a jot of bother. No KPs, no beachballs. Just works.

I'd rather run a reliable brand of mSATA or M.2 SATA SSD in an IDE adapter than a no brand IDE "native" SSD. It's running mature firmware on a proven controller via a straight bridge chip, and the garbage collection is likely to be much better than an old design of IDE SSD from KingMAX or Kingspec etc.

Quick question... Does a PATA/IDE adapter do much in terms of controlling and/or garbage collection or is this all done on the mSATA / M.2 chip alone?

Reason I ask is I just bought another two 32GB KingSpec mSATA mini-PCIe cards for US$26 each (free ship from HK), but I cheaped out on the adapters and bought two eBay specials for AU$8.99 each (also, free shipping from HK). Previously I've bought the Lindy caddies, which cost me around AU$45 each out of Poland (which has been the cheapest to ship to Australia).

I have already sunk hundreds of dollars into SSD conversions on my three AlBooks (12, 15 and 17"), so I wanted to try a cheaper option for the Pismo and TiBook. If the cheap adapters work as planned, these 32GB conversions will total to about AU$40 each (~US$32).

 

[LightBulbFun]

all the garbage collection etc is handled by the SSDs firmware

the PATA adapter is a dumb thing just a bridge as @MagicBoy says, so your going to want a good SSD with good garbage collection since you wont have TRIM in these setups. I usually recommend Samsung SSDs for these setups right now theres a US seller selling a bunch of new (old stock?) 32GB Samsung mSATA SSDs for $19.99 with best offer, sounds ripe for a Pismo or something (one of these days ill deck one of my PPC systems out with an SSD)

 

[MagicBoy]

The garbage collection, wear levelling etc is done by the controller as it directly manages the NAND memory. That controller will also have a SATA interface on it for communicating with the host system.

The IDE adaptor translates host PATA/IDE to SATA commands so your shiny new SSD can talk to the Mac. It just deals with data, doesn't care how it's stored. Newer technology like TRIM and Secure Erase won't be supported, which is why a decent controller is important. There's an overhead for the translation, but given the IDE interface will run at 100MByte/sec where the SATA drive is going to be at least twice as quick it's not really a concern.

 

[skinniezinho]

Here are some benchmarks both on Tiger and Leopard.Powerboook G4 12 1.5GHz
Original Apple 60Gb Hitachi IDE
Kingston SMS200 60Gb Msata SSD (latest firmware) on Lindsy Ide adapter

 

[bunnspecial]

FWIW, I don't know the model but for all of the conversions I do myself I buy adapters that come with a white plastic cover to duplicate the 2.5" HDD form factor.

I've used probably a half dozen of those adapters. They were from different vendors, but probably all came from the same factory in China. Regardless of the make of SSD, I get 92 mb/s peak on an ATA/100 interface.

 

[Cox Orange]

Isn't a peak performance of 92MB/s (or 97MB/s as skinniezinho shows) a bit unrealistic considering the overhead of ATA, when it goes through the ATA-100 IDE bottle neck?

Xbench has been pointed out to be massively unreliably several times. They usual sugguest AJA Test, if it has to be free, nowadays (don't remember the other one right now).

I always do a real life test. I take a folder with lots of small files and/or one big file and let it duplicate on the SSD itself and look at the starting and end time and calculate the average time. My reault with a 12" iBook G4 1,33GHz, 1,5GB RAM was arround 66MB/s with a 15,-EUR mSATA adapter and two crucial M4s (said to have the best Garbage collection at the time, both SSDs failed in the next two years, without prior signs).

Compared to a 320GB 5400rpm WD Scorpio Blue IDE drive I didn't see the advantage for me personally (faster Boot and application start up times weren't that overwhelming for me either). Where I see a real advantage is in modern Intel Macs. Again only for me personally. The experiences (as always with the same PowerPCs) seem to differ in a huge variety.

 

[MagicBoy]

For me with a last of the PowerBook line DLSD with max'd RAM it's a big difference from the stock HDD. The benefit is in the near zero file access times rather than the transfer rate. Application load times are typically 2-3x faster (counting the bounces).

You still got the M4s? There was a power on hours bug in one firmware version that made the drives look like they failed when they reached a certain milestone, something like 6000 power on hours. Firmware update to the fixed version and they'd be fine again.

 

[bunnspecial]

Compared to a 320GB 5400rpm WD Scorpio Blue IDE drive I didn't see the advantage for me personally (faster Boot and application start up times weren't that overwhelming for me either). Where I see a real advantage is in modern Intel Macs. Again only for me personally. The experiences (as always with the same PowerPCs) seem to differ in a huge variety.

The last upgrade I did was in a 1.33ghz 17". I didn't tell the owner what I was doing-I just gave him the parts bill and he didn't ask for an explanation of what it all meant.

In any case, when I took it back to him I got called a "miracle worker" because he didn't think it was possible for that computer to be that fast.

 

[Cox Orange]

For me with a last of the PowerBook line DLSD with max'd RAM it's a big difference from the stock HDD. The benefit is in the near zero file access times rather than the transfer rate. Application load times are typically 2-3x faster (counting the bounces).

You still got the M4s? There was a power on hours bug in one firmware version that made the drives look like they failed when they reached a certain milestone, something like 6000 power on hours. Firmware update to the fixed version and they'd be fine again.

I got a replacement with a MX or bx200 via the rma process.

 

[MagicBoy]

Fair enough. I've had no issues with mine. Did three years in my 2011 MBP, now gets daily use in the gaming rig. Not missed a beat in six years.

 

[Cox Orange]

@bunnspecial
I know a lot here had seen a huge advantage, maybe I did something wrong. I know and it is always a miracle to me.
I took the time for booting, opening Apple works and Photoshop (only the app, no file) and the times were not drastically changed.

But the difference towards the 4200rpm Toshiba stock drive ist noticeable for me as was the WD already.

Also I'd add that the HDD was not very full and had a fresh Install like the SSD or better say was defragmented via SuperDuper's copy and backup function.

 

[amagichnich]

@bunnspecial
I know a lot here had seen a huge advantage, maybe I did something wrong. I know and it is always a miracle to me.
I took the time for booting, opening Apple works and Photoshop (only the app, no file) and the times were not drastically changed.

But the difference towards the 4200rpm Toshiba stock drive ist noticeable for me as was the WD already.

Also I'd add that the HDD was not very full and had a fresh Install like the SSD or better say was defragmented via SuperDuper's copy and backup function.

The ATA interface is limiting very much. But where I really see improvements is multitasking and access time and that's why I have SSDs everywhere. Navigating in finder windows and having many browser tabs and up to say ten applications open is unbearably slow with a HDD. With an SSD and >1gb ram it's not only possible but very fast!
People always think an SSD has to have a high bandwidth but access times are much more important I think

 

[pl1984]

@bunnspecial
I know a lot here had seen a huge advantage, maybe I did something wrong. I know and it is always a miracle to me.
I took the time for booting, opening Apple works and Photoshop (only the app, no file) and the times were not drastically changed.

But the difference towards the 4200rpm Toshiba stock drive ist noticeable for me as was the WD already.

Also I'd add that the HDD was not very full and had a fresh Install like the SSD or better say was defragmented via SuperDuper's copy and backup function.

I've had similar experiences as you with my G5 system. Installing an SSD didn't make it significantly faster. I did notice an improvement in startup time but application opening times were already fast and shaving off a second or two didn't get me excited. Though I have to say this systems primary use is web browsing which, with Java Script enabled, hammers the CPU and that's where the bottleneck lies.

 

[skinniezinho]

Since a lot of people here went with the brand Kingspec I would like how it has performed over the years?
Although I bought a Kingston mS200 for the powerbook, I need a second msata ssd (for my Thinkpad X230, to use linux), and saw the Kingspec MT-128@35eur and the 64Gb@22eur. Anyone here has experiences with them?
They also seem to have two versions, the newer one (green) and older (black). Anyone knows the difference?
This prices can't get me even used msata SSDs.