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spiderman0616

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Aug 1, 2010
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I wanted to start a discussion with those of you who have been clamoring for "proper external monitor support" on iPad/iPadOS. I used to think this complaint was just whining for the sake of whining, but I have majorly changed my tune this year. I was kind of interested to see if any of you have the same experience I'm having as far as wanting this feature added in.

In the past, when I wanted to do things for my job somewhere other than my office, I would unhook my work-issued 15" MBP from my dual monitors and take it down to the kitchen or patio. To make up for the loss of the second monitor, I would just set up 2 spaces and 4 finger swipe between the two to get back and forth faster. This is not optimal, but makes out of office work easier.

With the split screen multi tasking on iPad Pro, and now having upgraded to the larger 12.9" model, I can perfectly replicate that workflow on my iPad and have a decent amount of screen space to do it on. The web-based tools I use for work every day that are definitely not touch friendly now work great with the trackpad support, so it's much easier to just grab my iPad Pro than to dismantle my whole desk and grab the Macbook.

This has brought a new functionality gap into the front of my mind though. I would LOVE to be able to hook my iPad Pro up to a monitor and have it act as a second screen, not just a mirror. OR, I would love to be able to use an Apple TV as a Sidecar monitor for my iPad just like I can do with the Mac. Right now, the Mac has both of those external monitor options and the iPad has neither of them.

This is a new item on my wishlist that I didn't think I would have. But the more jobs I give my iPad, the more I want REAL external monitor support. I do kind of wonder exactly how this would be implemented on iPadOS as far as how it would treat that second monitor and what it would be able to display there. Seems like it would be a pretty major feature to add in and would require some pretty crazy changes under the hood. Anyone have any thoughts?
 
Agree. An external monitor running at full native resolution that acted as an extended desktop would make my iPad Pro infinitely more usable for a lot of tasks for me. Haven't heard anything about it being planned so I'm not holding my breath.

People thought it would come in iOS 14 but there was never any rumor from sources of substance. At this point, it's just a dream. But I would certainly like it.
 
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Without getting into the specifics of this particular, "I want iPad to behave like a desktop PC" request... Compared to desktop PCs, minicomputers, mainframes, supercomputers, etc... From the start, the vision for mobile has been "different." Mobile is intended to be a computer that "everyone" can use - put the power of a computer in as many hands as possible. For the sake of the (relative) simplicity necessary to make computing more accessible to the masses, some of the niche-case uses of general purpose computers are going to be ignored. The hardware configuration is less "flexible" (i.e. minimal ports, no slots, etc.).

Flexibility for the few tends to translate to complexity for the masses. That's part of what makes PCs intimidating to so many. Software/OS/hardware "flexibility" breeds complexity, and it's hard enough to fight complexity within the limits set for mobile devices. Extending that flexibility even farther just makes matters that much worse for the vast majority of users.
 
Without getting into the specifics of this particular, "I want iPad to behave like a desktop PC" request... Compared to desktop PCs, minicomputers, mainframes, supercomputers, etc... From the start, the vision for mobile has been "different." Mobile is intended to be a computer that "everyone" can use - put the power of a computer in as many hands as possible. For the sake of the (relative) simplicity necessary to make computing more accessible to the masses, some of the niche-case uses of general purpose computers are going to be ignored. The hardware configuration is less "flexible" (i.e. minimal ports, no slots, etc.).

Flexibility for the few tends to translate to complexity for the masses. That's part of what makes PCs intimidating to so many. Software/OS/hardware "flexibility" breeds complexity, and it's hard enough to fight complexity within the limits set for mobile devices. Extending that flexibility even farther just makes matters that much worse for the vast majority of users.

How would monitor support make matters worse for you? What complexity could it possibly introduce that would impact tablet use?
 
Without getting into the specifics of this particular, "I want iPad to behave like a desktop PC" request... Compared to desktop PCs, minicomputers, mainframes, supercomputers, etc... From the start, the vision for mobile has been "different." Mobile is intended to be a computer that "everyone" can use - put the power of a computer in as many hands as possible. For the sake of the (relative) simplicity necessary to make computing more accessible to the masses, some of the niche-case uses of general purpose computers are going to be ignored. The hardware configuration is less "flexible" (i.e. minimal ports, no slots, etc.).

Flexibility for the few tends to translate to complexity for the masses. That's part of what makes PCs intimidating to so many. Software/OS/hardware "flexibility" breeds complexity, and it's hard enough to fight complexity within the limits set for mobile devices. Extending that flexibility even farther just makes matters that much worse for the vast majority of users.

I think you make a good point here, and I agree that most iPad users wouldn't use the feature I'm asking for. Then again, most Mac users probably aren't hooking up to dual monitors either. I just find it revealing that the workflow I'm using on my iPad when I don't have dual monitors is the same one I use on my Mac when I don't have dual monitors. On the Mac, I put things in Spaces and swipe left and right to access them. On the iPad I make two app pairings and just swipe left and right between them. As a matter of fact, I just leave those pairings set up on my iPad all the time. I can pick it up and instantly start working whenever I want to.

I was talking with someone years ago about this same topic and they asked me, "What if you could have something similar to spaces on your iPad? Would that help you work better?" It hadn't occurred to me until I got my 12.9" iPad that this is exactly what has ended up happening. And the answer is yes--it makes it so I can work every bit as effectively as if I had my Macbook in front of me and not hooked up to dual monitors.
 
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Without getting into the specifics of this particular, "I want iPad to behave like a desktop PC" request... Compared to desktop PCs, minicomputers, mainframes, supercomputers, etc... From the start, the vision for mobile has been "different." Mobile is intended to be a computer that "everyone" can use - put the power of a computer in as many hands as possible. For the sake of the (relative) simplicity necessary to make computing more accessible to the masses, some of the niche-case uses of general purpose computers are going to be ignored. The hardware configuration is less "flexible" (i.e. minimal ports, no slots, etc.).

Flexibility for the few tends to translate to complexity for the masses. That's part of what makes PCs intimidating to so many. Software/OS/hardware "flexibility" breeds complexity, and it's hard enough to fight complexity within the limits set for mobile devices. Extending that flexibility even farther just makes matters that much worse for the vast majority of users.

I can see where you are coming from but I think you are a little bit wide of the mark, especially with the bolded (emphasis mine) point. Take widgets on iOS 14, for example. It is a feature that rewards exploration of the OS, but does not impede on any user who is unaware of its existence. You can quite happily use iOS 14 with a traditional home screen layout and never know widgets exist, unless you go looking for them.

This is the perfect ”power user” feature: one that adds flexibility without complexity. I don’t think one necessarily entails the other.

Adding the ability to dock to a monitor and throw an app on a separate screen, if implemented correctly, will do nothing to confuse the average user who will continue to pick up their iPad and use it like normal, but will turn the iPad into a much more capable machine for an important minority. These are the kind of features that I really hope Apple add in the coming years.

I have to say, I was very surprised this wasn’t announced as part of iPadOS 14. It felt like a dead cert after pointer support was added in iPadOS 13 mid-cycle. It doesn’t seem like they are ideologically against it (since certain apps can display non-mirrored content on external screens), but it does require a rethink of things like Spaces and “window” (I use that term loosely) management on iPad. Fingers crossed for next year.
 
How would monitor support make matters worse for you? What complexity could it possibly introduce that would impact tablet use?

As I stated, I wasn't addressing the specifics of this request, but of the broader principle. The competing goals of maintaining simplicity and expanding flexibility are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but for every case there will be pros and cons - whether it's a larger code base (affecting device storage) or hardware necessary to support the feature. Maybe there's nothing standing in the way of this particular desire, but likely there is.
 
Some tend to throw out phrases like "if implemented correctly" which made me wonder about the complexity issue ApfelKuchen brought up. Having the iPad recognize the situation it is in and react in an intuitive manner when a display is connected might not be as straightforward as people think once variations of peripherals that are connected to a device come into play. In the case of a laptop or desktop both of which always utilize a keyboard and mouse (or trackpad) it is rather intuitive to an individual how to interact with elements on a secondary display.

With an iPad that is predominantly a touch interface not so much. Plugging in a USB-C to HDMI adapter directly into an iPad Pro without any other input device other than the iPad's touch screen leaves an issue of how to interact with the external monitor's content if it isn't purely mirrored. The solution would be for iPadOS to react differently depending on connected device or connection type which could introduce challenges when it comes to compatibility with various devices/docs/hubs.

With the advent of the Magic Keyboard I can see Apple developing something now that a reliable keyboard w/ trackpad exists that supports trackpad gestures . . Say for example we were to get mirrored display out of the iPad's own USB-C port but a true secondary desktop out of the Magic Keyboard's port. For now, I don't expect external display support that is universal enough to allow us to use any keyboard and mouse that we wish. I would imagine though, that like me if the prerequisite to getting ideal dual monitor support is having a magic keyboard many would be all-in.
 
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I think you make a good point here, and I agree that most iPad users wouldn't use the feature I'm asking for.

It definitely depends on people setup. Here are the situations IMO that people would want this option:

1. the iPP is their only computing device. Meaning they do not have a laptop or desktop. It is just the iPad. Whenever they use the iPP on a desk with a keyboard and mouse people would want the second screen for two reasons. First 12.9 inch as big as it is, it is still small enough to cause eye strain if you are looking at that thing 8 hours a day. Second so that they are able to for example have both the screen for a video call and to be able to check something to share during the meeting or to write notes while watching presentation. Or to watch a movie on the bigger screen while also checking something else.
2. the iPP is used instead of laptop (portable device at work and at home). Being able to share your screen at work in a conference room is a common need.
3. Specific apps do require a screen bigger than even 12.9 inch. For example Mindnode. I can create quite big Mindmap and I do appreciate the fact that the app itself knows how to use properly a second monitor. Same could be said for PowerPoint and Keynote for example. Being able to send the PPT in full screen mode in the second screen and then leave the notes and comments for the presented on the iPad itself is kind of common for most people.

Overall if people replace laptops with iPP they do need proper external monitor support. If they use the iPad is just tablet (complementary device to their desktop machines) they would need it as the iPP would be their laptop. If they have portable laptop and iPP they would not care that much about the monitor support as they have portable device (laptop) that does this.
 
It always seems to come down to, "I want iPad to be a Mac."

I'm really happy with iPad being iPad. My first generation iPad (purchased on Day 3 of iPad availability) replaced my laptop (Powerbook G4), although that wasn't my intention at the time, and nobody at Apple was even whispering that it might be possible. It just worked out that way. As a touch typist I did need a physical keyboard - for a long time, I carried an Apple Bluetooth keyboard - it wasn't designed for portability, but iPad and keyboard were still much lighter and more compact than that Powerbook, and when I didn't need the physical keyboard, it could stay in my backpack or hotel room. Occasionally I needed to import photos from my camera's CF card - no problem with the right adapter. I had no problem uploading my articles and images for publication. So even back then, way before iPadOS multitasking and iPad Magic Keyboard with trackpad, USB-C ports and external drive support, Sidecar... iPad was giving me what I needed when away from the office.

I'm also really happy with having Macs on my desk. I love having a 27" display, and I love having a second 27" display alongside it - huge desktop spaces across which to spread my work at a comfortable size for my aging eyes. Over the years I've had trackpads and trackballs, but Magic Mouse is a very happy cross between mouse and trackpad. I'm looking forward to the day that Macs will have Face ID's sensor array and can start reading my eye movements and hand gestures in addition to taking mouse/trackpad input (hopefully it'll arrive concurrently with my first ARM-equipped iMac).

But even as a longtime Mac user, I couldn't care less about the demands for iOS to have a "full" file manager like Finder. Simply put, there's nothing I routinely do with Finder that I can't do with iOS Files (well, other than restore iPhones and iPads, now that that aspect of iTunes has migrated to Finder). It's not because iOS Files is fully-featured, but I almost never have to mass-move, or mass-rename, or change permissions and all the other things some users must be able to do (and I don't deny that they need to do it). I don't run multiple OSes, I don't have to test apps on multiple versions of macOS or load archived disk images. Sure, I've needed to partition and format HDs, repair damaged file systems, etc. on Macs and PCs. But never on iPad or iPhone. Since there's no way to add RAM to an iOS device I've had no need to run Activity Monitor to see if RAM is insufficient (and when you consider how many Mac users do not run Activity Monitor and simply assume that their problems are due to insufficient RAM...). Kill a rogue process? It's nice to pinpoint the process and kill it via Activity Monitor, but on those very rare occasions when my iPad or iPhone misbehaves, a force-quit of the misbehaving app followed by a restart works just as well.

Life with iPad is so much easier than life with Mac. I'm not granted the kind of access and control to iOS that I have with Mac (or Windows or Linux), but I've never missed it. All too often it's just the illusion of control. The real control is in the hands of the developers who install kexts and decide their app needed to boot whenever I started the system - I need control to undo the messes they sometimes make. And since they can spread their messes beyond the confines of a neat sandbox, there's always the possibility that a drag to trash doesn't actually clean house. I have better things to worry about.

So thank you Apple, for imposing serious discipline on all those devs. Thanks for locking things down and reviewing every app, and enforcing standards, for making iOS/iPadOS into operating systems, rather than operating free-for-alls. (I'm not a developer, as you can tell. If I was, I'm sure I'd be crying 'Freedom!' along with the rest of them.)

So when people say they want their iPads to mimic their Macs... No thanks! I have my Macs, I expect to have Macs for many years to come. But when I leave my desk, I want to leave that all on my desk. To me, mobile is a different mindset with a different set of expectations.

But what about this multi-display dream? I've avoided addressing it directly, but finally I can't resist...

Mirroriing works for iOS/iPadOS because the receiving display is just a dumb display. The originating display is not just a display but an active work surface - a touchscreen. So, let's say you want to drag a window from the iPad onto the external display. You drag the window to the edge of the iPad, and then what? How do you get it to the center of the external display? Well, if the external display is also a touchscreen, you have to move your hand from one screen to the other: drag the window so part of it appears on the external display, then reach over to finish dragging it the rest of the way? What if that external display is not a touchscreen? What if it's on a wall 15 feet away? Ah now... you need to go from direct touchscreen to a mouse/trackpad that can manipulate a non-touch and/or distant object. Or maybe the Touch ID sensor array will allow you to lift your hand off the touchscreen and continue to drag the window using a hand gesture. That'll probably be a bit tricky, since the system will have to know that you're intending to control an element on that distant display rather than waving your hand to emphasize an argument you're making.

And what about using a keyboard with that second display. When you click/tap/point at a text field, does a virtual keyboard open on the iPad? To some extent, that nullifies the benefits of having multiple displays. An external keyboard makes things simpler (just as using a mouse or trackpad makes things much simpler).

But yeah, throw enough intelligence at the problem and it could turn out to be as seamless as manipulating multiple displays with a single mouse (which is much simpler, because the mouse is capable of mapping a much larger set of coordinates than the boundaries of a single display). On a touchscreen there are no coordinates beyond the boundaries of the display - like a flat Earth, you just fall off the edge. Basically, this becomes an exercise in AR - first, map the actual location of the second display, then virtualize it so it can be manipulated as a virtual touchscreen. It's certainly doable, but a much, much more complex and processor-intensive task than a Mac's multi-display mode.

But the fact that I, a non-coder, can describe a seemingly plausible method for doing this means that a team of software and systems engineers will likely be able to turn science fiction into reality. Of course, it's all much easier said than done.
 
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It always seems to come down to, "I want iPad to be a Mac."

To be fair Apple brought this on themselves with their advertising that the iPad is a computer. Well I kind of use two types of computers - desktop and laptop. If someone tells me that the iPad is a computer I naturally could say well then I expect the iPad to do what desktops and laptops can do.

I'm really happy with iPad being iPad. My first generation iPad (purchased on Day 3 of iPad availability) replaced my laptop (Powerbook G4), although that wasn't my intention at the time, and nobody at Apple was even whispering that it might be possible. It just worked out that way. As a touch typist I did need a physical keyboard - for a long time, I carried an Apple Bluetooth keyboard - it wasn't designed for portability, but iPad and keyboard were still much lighter and more compact than that Powerbook, and when I didn't need the physical keyboard, it could stay in my backpack or hotel room. Occasionally I needed to import photos from my camera's CF card - no problem with the right adapter. I had no problem uploading my articles and images for publication. So even back then, way before iPadOS multitasking and iPad Magic Keyboard with trackpad, USB-C ports and external drive support, Sidecar... iPad was giving me what I needed when away from the office.

It does depends on personal preferences for sure. Key points are the right adapter, the keyboard that was not perfect. For some people this is not a problem, for others it is. For me personally if I thought that the iPad was this amazing tool I would have ignored this part. However I do not think that is. Is it good enough - yes. Is it amazing for me - no. And huge part of me saying no to the last question is iPadOS itself. I do not enjoy the iOS experience nor the iPadOS experience. Some things are just total WTF for me. Settings as a whole is a mess. The fact that some settings are in the app, others in the settings menu for me is a sign of fragmentation. And then the RAM management. The apps and tabs reloads are really affecting my user experience. Lastly some simple things like opening an audio file in music player is a complete WTF on iOS. Like this is so simple thing yet it is so convoluted and needlessly complex. Or files transfer. No progress at all. Sure let's wait watching the files app for 20 minutes until the file is transferred because if we go to the dock or another app, we have no guarantee that the process would work.

But even as a longtime Mac user, I couldn't care less about the demands for iOS to have a "full" file manager like Finder. Simply put, there's nothing I routinely do with Finder that I can't do with iOS Files (well, other than restore iPhones and iPads, now that that aspect of iTunes has migrated to Finder). It's not because iOS Files is fully-featured, but I almost never have to mass-move, or mass-rename, or change permissions and all the other things some users must be able to do (and I don't deny that they need to do it). I don't run multiple OSes, I don't have to test apps on multiple versions of macOS or load archived disk images. Sure, I've needed to partition and format HDs, repair damaged file systems, etc. on Macs and PCs. But never on iPad or iPhone. Since there's no way to add RAM to an iOS device I've had no need to run Activity Monitor to see if RAM is insufficient (and when you consider how many Mac users do not run Activity Monitor and simply assume that their problems are due to insufficient RAM...). Kill a rogue process? It's nice to pinpoint the process and kill it via Activity Monitor, but on those very rare occasions when my iPad or iPhone misbehaves, a force-quit of the misbehaving app followed by a restart works just as well.

Makes sense but you have a Mac. It is different for people that not own laptop or desktop. iPad is their only computing device (that is outside the phone). For them it might be different matter.

So when people say they want their iPads to mimic their Macs... No thanks! I have my Macs, I expect to have Macs for many years to come. But when I leave my desk, I want to leave that all on my desk. To me, mobile is a different mindset with a different set of expectations.

But what about this multi-display dream? I've avoided addressing it directly, but finally I can't resist...

Mirroriing works for iOS/iPadOS because the receiving display is just a dumb display. The originating display is not just a display but an active work surface - a touchscreen. So, let's say you want to drag a window from the iPad onto the external display. You drag the window to the edge of the iPad, and then what? How do you get it to the center of the external display? Well, if the external display is also a touchscreen, you have to move your hand from one screen to the other: drag the window so part of it appears on the external display, then reach over to finish dragging it the rest of the way? What if that external display is not a touchscreen? What if it's on a wall 15 feet away? Ah now... you need to go from direct touchscreen to a mouse/trackpad that can manipulate a non-touch and/or distant object. Or maybe the Touch ID sensor array will allow you to lift your hand off the touchscreen and continue to drag the window using a hand gesture. That'll probably be a bit tricky, since the system will have to know that you're intending to control an element on that distant display rather than waving your hand to emphasize an argument you're making. But yeah, throw enough intelligence at the problem and it could turn out to be as seamless as manipulating multiple displays with a single mouse (which is much simpler, because the mouse is capable of mapping a much larger set of coordinates than the boundaries of a single display). On a touchscreen there are no coordinates beyond the boundaries of the display - like a flat Earth, you just fall off the edge. Basically, this becomes an exercise in AR - first, map the actual location of the second display, then virtualize it so it can be manipulated as a virtual touchscreen. It's certainly doable, but a much, much more complex and processor-intensive task than a Mac's multi-display mode.

But the fact that I, a non-coder, can describe a seemingly plausible method for doing this means that a team of software and systems engineers will likely be able to turn science fiction into reality. Of course, it's all much easier said than done.

Fair but then Apple should not advertise iPad as computer or multi tasking machine because multi tasking involves multiple displays. Like really the way I see it Apple marketing does not touch reality.
 
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The story for iPadOS 14 is really Apple Pencil. It’s telling that there wasn’t a Magic Keyboard anywhere in sight for the WWDC presentation

After 13.4 and Magic Keyboard, the next logical step was to deal with extended support for external displays, but in hindsight that would just be doubling down on one modality.

engaging in pure speculation like with the external display support awhile ago, I’m thinking they are going to take a tick-tock approach to input and user experience with iPad. One release enhancing more traditional computer functionality, the next doing things with Pencil and touch.
 
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Yup, I definitely want an iPad Pro to properly support external monitors. It's the major feature that holds me back from primarily using an iPad Pro as my main computer at home. It kind of boggles my mind that people are willing to spend $1,500+ on an upgraded iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard when it can't do something even a garbage $300 laptop can do.

I do, however, think Apple will eventually address it. I think they're just waiting for more things to fall into place (e.g. the Intel -> ARM transition) first.
 
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To be clear, I didn’t mean this discussion to devolve into the old arguments about if an iPad is a computer or not or who uses their iPad as a laptop replacement and who doesn’t. I personally DO use my iPad Pro as my main computer, and I do that BECAUSE it’s not a Mac. It’s been my preferred computing platform since 2010.

The difference 10 years later is that for me, it’s not just an alternative for quick and dirty triage anymore, it’s my full blown do-everything machine. The app pairings in multi tasking essentially mimic exactly how I use Spaces on my Macbook, but they’re not quite as convenient as being able to connect a second display, not just a mirrored display. I would love if Apple simply started out by just allowing me to put an app pairing on a second display while keeping the iPad screen active. That would be super useful for me. Not having that functionality there is by no means a deal breaker. I’m pretty much a whiz with all the multi tasking gestures and functions and get around iPadOS pretty quickly. It would just be a “nice to have” feature.
 
I've long been accustomed to iPad owner resistance to any advancements like stylus support, mouse support, dual display, etc. With each advancement request comes the responses, "if you want x just buy a macbook", or "it will ruin the iPad experience".

I have had full dual display support on my Android tablets, including the Lenovo Yoga Book (Android) and the lowly Amazon Fire HD 10 for years. It's one of the many reasons why I've relegated my iPad w/Apple Pencil to being my digital project notebook.

I applaud the recognition that full support for dual display is a useful feature. One day I hope that Apple will add that and two other elements to iPadOS. That will allow me to use the iPad exclusively away from my home office desk.
 
I've long been accustomed to iPad owner resistance to any advancements like stylus support, mouse support, dual display, etc. With each advancement request comes the responses, "if you want x just buy a macbook", or "it will ruin the iPad experience".

I have had full dual display support on my Android tablets, including the Lenovo Yoga Book (Android) and the lowly Amazon Fire HD 10 for years. It's one of the many reasons why I've relegated my iPad w/Apple Pencil to being my digital project notebook.

I applaud the recognition that full support for dual display is a useful feature. One day I hope that Apple will add that and two other elements to iPadOS. That will allow me to use the iPad exclusively away from my home office desk.

Yeah, that was my thought on the "too hard or complex" argument - my Android tablets do this. Much like the external storage and mouse functionality ...
 
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I would like to use my 4K tv as a secondary monitor of my iPad Pro. I noticed when I use the screen mirror feature, there are black bars on each side. Is there an app or way I can make it full screen without distortion or having to constantly resize every time I view a different web page etc.?
 
I would like to use my 4K tv as a secondary monitor of my iPad Pro. I noticed when I use the screen mirror feature, there are black bars on each side. Is there an app or way I can make it full screen without distortion or having to constantly resize every time I view a different web page etc.?

No - that's really the issue, lack of aspect ratio support. Though maybe ShiftScreen might help for you -

 
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Would be nice and now possible on big sur that if you connect the ipad to an external monitor it will switch to macos big sur running the ipad apps you have installed (since now those can run on macos) and that the ipad becomes like a drawing tablet for it. And then when unplug it it become ipados again but with all ”data” the same since only the ipad apps was used
 
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