Activation Lock and second hand devices

[kh3khalid]

Hi all

I'm curious about this topic. What if someone buys a used iPhone and the seller then locks the device, being the original owner of the device?

Is there a way to transfer the ownership of the device or register the device with a new Apple ID?

 

[Armen]

Hi all

I'm curious about this topic. What if someone buys a used iPhone and the seller then locks the device, being the original owner of the device?

Is there a way to transfer the ownership of the device or register the device with a new Apple ID?

Coulda sworn activation lock was optional?

 

[C DM]

Coulda sworn activation lock was optional?

In what sense (as far as it relates to this kind of situation)?

 

[batting1000]

You can't turn on Activation Lock remotely. You just have to be sure it's off before the person wipes the phone.

 

[Gjwilly]

You can't turn on Activation Lock remotely. You just have to be sure it's off before the person wipes the phone.

And you can't wipe the phone without first turning it off so that takes care of that.
People buying legitimately have nothing to worry about.

 

[Armen]

In what sense (as far as it relates to this kind of situation)?

As in you could turn off activation lock, restore your phone then sell it to someone. You can't then turn around remotely and activate it again.

 

[batting1000]

And you can't wipe the phone without first turning it off so that takes care of that.
People buying legitimately have nothing to worry about.

Exactly. I think people buying off eBay or something like that would should worry more because you don't know if the owner will turn it off before sending it to you. If you meet someone in public (like at a carrier store, etc), you can be sure the Find My iPhone / iPad option is turned off before the device is wiped.

 

[C DM]

As in you could turn off activation lock, restore your phone then sell it to someone. You can't then turn around remotely and activate it again.

I guess the question seemed to come more from the thought that someone might sell the phone where it has been or at least can then be enabled by the original owner.

 

[kh3khalid]

And you can't wipe the phone without first turning it off so that takes care of that.
People buying legitimately have nothing to worry about.

So basically if I buy a used iPhone and receive the device with everything wiped (when turning it on it takes me to setting up the device), then Activation Lock is turned off for sure. Is this correct?

 

[Gjwilly]

So basically if I buy a used iPhone and receive the device with everything wiped (when turning it on it takes me to setting up the device), then Activation Lock is turned off for sure. Is this correct?

No, if you didn't see the person perform the wipe then you can't be sure.
An unscrupulous seller or an iPhone thief could still put the phone into DFU mode and then restore without setting up the device.
Then when you go to setup and Activate it would still ask for the previous owner's credentials.
I think all future second-hand sales are going to have to be in-person to be 100% sure.

 

[kh3khalid]

No, if you didn't see the person perform the wipe then you can't be sure.
An unscrupulous seller or an iPhone thief could still put the phone into DFU mode and then restore without setting up the device.
Then when you go to setup and Activate it would still ask for the previous owner's credentials.
I think all future second-hand sales are going to have to be in-person to be 100% sure.

So it's better to do the wipe in person, and when the resetting process is done, Activation Lock gets turned off too, right? Or should it be turned off manually with internet connection?

I found a good deal on a clean iPhone, just used for a few days, but I don't want to risk it and I want to be 100% sure of the steps that should be followed since I don't know the seller.

 

[Gjwilly]

So it's better to do the wipe in person, and when the resetting process is done, Activation Lock gets turned off too, right? Or should it be turned off manually with internet connection?

I found a good deal on a clean iPhone, just used for a few days, but I don't want to risk it and I want to be 100% sure of the steps that should be followed since I don't know the seller.

You can't initiate a wipe from the phone or from within iTunes without first turning it off. If you forget and try to it will actually prompt you to do it.
The only exception is putting the phone into DFU mode which forces the wipe. After the DFU wipe and reset -- because Activation Lock was never turned off -- the phone will remain locked to the previous user.
That's the point of Activation Lock -- to prevent people stealing, wiping, and using stolen iPhones.
The problem you've identified is that it doesn't stop people from stealing, wiping, and selling stolen iPhones to uninformed buyers.
I'd say try to meet face to face and watch them perform the wipe and reset.

 

[kh3khalid]

And what about current iOS 6 devices? Is it necessary to turn off Find My iPhone, or is a complete reset enough?

 

[Gjwilly]

I'm not sure.
The Activation Lock resides on Apples servers so if a device ever had it activated it will remain so until deactivated.
If it never had iOS 7 then no worries.
But if the device had iOS 7 and was downgraded to iOS 6 without deactivating it will still prompt for the prior owners credentials during iOS 6 activation.
What I don't know is what happens to the iOS 6 device the next time it goes through a wipe and reset while using iOS 6.
My guess is that the device won't prompt you to turn off Find My iPhone when you try to wipe it and the Activation Lock will remain.
And even if you do turn off Find My iPhone within iOS 6, will that be enough to send the deactivate flag to Apples servers or is that a command that can only come from an iOS 7 device?

 

[Mrg02d]

You guys are thinking too much into this...

If some eBay seller screws you, eBay will refund you.

Get phone in mail. Turn it on. If you are prompted for credentials, call eBay and force a buyer protection case. There.

 

[Gjwilly]

You guys are thinking too much into this...

If some eBay seller screws you, eBay will refund you.

Get phone in mail. Turn it on. If you are prompted for credentials, call eBay and force a buyer protection case. There.

LOL!
Touché!

But thinking is fun!

 

[kh3khalid]

You guys are thinking too much into this...

If some eBay seller screws you, eBay will refund you.

Get phone in mail. Turn it on. If you are prompted for credentials, call eBay and force a buyer protection case. There.

Yeah but if the deal was face to face and you get scammed, most prpbably you'll say bye bye to your money and use the device to play catch

I'm not sure.
The Activation Lock resides on Apples servers so if a device ever had it activated it will remain so until deactivated.
If it never had iOS 7 then no worries.
But if the device had iOS 7 and was downgraded to iOS 6 without deactivating it will still prompt for the prior owners credentials during iOS 6 activation.
What I don't know is what happens to the iOS 6 device the next time it goes through a wipe and reset while using iOS 6.
My guess is that the device won't prompt you to turn off Find My iPhone when you try to wipe it and the Activation Lock will remain.
And even if you do turn off Find My iPhone within iOS 6, will that be enough to send the deactivate flag to Apples servers or is that a command that can only come from an iOS 7 device?

But how will it ask for the original user credentials if Activation lock is not even in the OS yet. I think it'll only do that if you upgrade to iOS7 again.

The only thing you can do is to go to settings, turn off find my iphone and wipe the device. This should do it for ios6 devices. I guess it's a rare case that you'll end up with a device that was downgraded.

 

[appleisking]

So it's better to do the wipe in person, and when the resetting process is done, Activation Lock gets turned off too, right? Or should it be turned off manually with internet connection?

I found a good deal on a clean iPhone, just used for a few days, but I don't want to risk it and I want to be 100% sure of the steps that should be followed since I don't know the seller.

I'm a little confused. Isn't activation lock limited to ios 7? Are you afraid the person will have a beta installed and will have that?

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I'm not sure.
The Activation Lock resides on Apples servers so if a device ever had it activated it will remain so until deactivated.
If it never had iOS 7 then no worries.
But if the device had iOS 7 and was downgraded to iOS 6 without deactivating it will still prompt for the prior owners credentials during iOS 6 activation.
What I don't know is what happens to the iOS 6 device the next time it goes through a wipe and reset while using iOS 6.
My guess is that the device won't prompt you to turn off Find My iPhone when you try to wipe it and the Activation Lock will remain.
And even if you do turn off Find My iPhone within iOS 6, will that be enough to send the deactivate flag to Apples servers or is that a command that can only come from an iOS 7 device?

That's interesting. If it's stored in Apple's servers, then I think you're pretty much screwed downgraded or not. My guess is once find my iphone is turned on at any point, bam the device is bricked, no matter what you do to it (downgrade, dfu, wipe blah blah blah) and regardless of turning it off (or turning it off could require icloud credentials).

 

[kh3khalid]

I'm a little confused. Isn't activation lock limited to ios 7? Are you afraid the person will have a beta installed and will have that?

Exactly.

But I'm also concerned about who Apple servers identify as the device owner. Is it the first Apple ID to register the device? Because if it has iOS 6 now and I upgrade it to iOS 7 later, and turn on activation lock, what credentials will it ask for? Mine that I registered the device with after wiping the device? Or the original owner that sold me the device? After wiping the device and registering it with my ID, am I now the owner of the device?

 

[Gjwilly]

But how will it ask for the original user credentials if Activation lock is not even in the OS yet. I think it'll only do that if you upgrade to iOS7 again.

Nope it does it in iOS 6 also.
When you go through setup and enter your iTunes ID, if it's the wrong one you'll get an error saying that the phone is already registered to someone else.
At that point you've got a nice paperweight until you put in the correct credentials.

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Exactly.

But I'm also concerned about who Apple servers identify as the device owner. Is it the first Apple ID to register the device? Because if it has iOS 6 now and I upgrade it to iOS 7 later, and turn on activation lock, what credentials will it ask for? Mine that I registered the device with after wiping the device? Or the original owner that sold me the device? After wiping the device and registering it with my ID, am I now the owner of the device?

Whoever activates the device is the owner but after deactivating (turning off Find My iPhone) the next person to activate becomes the owner.
The magic all happens during activation.... and activation can only happen after restore..... and restore can only happen after turning off Find My iPhone.
And around and around and around.

 

[aristobrat]

But I'm also concerned about who Apple servers identify as the device owner. Is it the first Apple ID to register the device? Because if it has iOS 6 now and I upgrade it to iOS 7 later, and turn on activation lock, what credentials will it ask for? Mine that I registered the device with after wiping the device? Or the original owner that sold me the device? After wiping the device and registering it with my ID, am I now the owner of the device?

Here's the info that someone posted directly from Apple's Dev Site.

The only time you would need another person's Apple ID (i.e. Apple would recognize them as the owner) is if they didn't follow the two steps mentioned below before they transferred the device to you.

Activation Lock, a new feature of Find My iPhone, is turned on automatically when Find My iPhone is enabled on any device running iOS 7. Activation Lock requires users to enter their Apple ID and password to turn off Find My iPhone, sign out of iCloud, erase the device, or reactivate the device after an erase.

It’s important to do one of the following before transferring a device to a new user:
Sign out of iCloud.
Turn off Activation Lock in Settings > iCloud > Find My iPhone.

 

[Daveoc64]

I suppose the problem here is that Apple has not documented a procedure for the actual legal owner of a device to get the lock removed.

What happens if someone can't remember their password (and is unable to reset it) remains to be seen.

 

[kh3khalid]

So when buying a used device now with either iOS 6 or 7, as a buyer the seller should reset the device in front of me, then I should setup the device with my credentials, and if it registers the device and takes me to the lock screen, then everything is great and the device is registered to me. Right?

What happens if someone can't remember their password (and is unable to reset it) remains to be seen.

How would anyone be unable to reset it? It would be his/her fault if he/she entered random answers to the security questions.

But I think Apple would help on this matter if documents proving identity are provided, wouldn't they?

 

[Daveoc64]

But I think Apple would help on this matter if documents proving identity are provided, wouldn't they?

Would they?

I don't know what help they give people now, but from the stories I've heard, Apple ID support is pretty poor.