Activist Groups Challenge UK Demand for Apple Encryption Backdoor

[MacRumors]

Two human rights groups have filed a legal complaint with the UK's Investigatory Powers Tribunal (IPT) in an attempt to quash the UK government's demand for Apple to allow backdoor access to its encrypted data (via Financial Times).

Earlier this year, the UK government invoked the Investigatory Powers Act to demand that Apple create a backdoor granting secret access to encrypted user data stored in iCloud globally. However, Apple refused to comply.

In response, rather than granting the requested access, Apple withdrew Advanced Data Protection from the UK, ensuring it would not be required to provide decryption capabilities. Advanced Data Protection offers end-to-end encryption for iPhone, iPad, and Mac users' data stored in iCloud.

Apple subsequently lodged a legal complaint to the IPT. "We have never built a back door or master key to any of our products, and we never will," Apple said at the time.

Now Privacy International and Liberty have done the same. The groups argue that Apple's appeal should be heard in public, and that ordering Apple to compromise the security of its products breaches its customers' free expression and privacy rights.

"The UK's use of a secret order to undermine security for people worldwide is unacceptable and disproportionate," said Caroline Wilson Palow, legal director at Privacy International. "People the world over rely on end-to-end encryption to protect themselves from harassment and oppression. No country should have the power to undermine that protection for everyone."

"It would be an entirely reckless and unprecedented move from the UK government to open up a back door to this data, and one that will have global consequences," said Akiko Hart, Liberty’s director. "We need concrete guarantees from the UK government that they won’t proceed with these plans."

The matter is being considered at a closed hearing of the tribunal at the High Court on Friday. Apple is not able to discuss the order made by the UK in public due to the terms of the law.

Several UK media organizations, including the BBC, Reuters, Sky News and the publishers of The Guardian, The Times, The Telegraph, Computer Weekly and Financial Times, have also made a submission to the IPT arguing that the Apple case should not be heard in private.

The US government is also looking into whether the UK's demand has violated the CLOUD act, which keeps the UK from asking for data from US citizens, and vice versa.

In a February interview with The Spectator, US president Donald Trump said he confronted UK prime minister Keir Starmer over the move and compared it with Chinese government surveillance.

"We told them you can't do this," Trump said. "We actually told [Starmer]... that's incredible. That's something, you know, that you hear about with China."

Note: Due to the political or social nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Political News forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Activist Groups Challenge UK Demand for Apple Encryption Backdoor

 

[JonathanParker]

Something rotten in London

 

[scgf]

I am wondering how many of these people actually had ADP enabled in the first place? I don’t know anybody who had enabled it or even knew what it was. I suspect that’s the case for 99% of iOS or macOS users. It’s a lot of hot air IMO.

 

[Dr McKay]

I am wondering how many of these people actually had ADP enabled in the first place? I don’t know anybody who had enabled it or even know what it was. I suspect that’s the case for 99% of iOS or macOS users. It’s a lot of hot air IMO.

I had it enabled but only because I saw an article on MacRumors about it releasing, probably wouldn’t have known about it otherwise. I disagree with your take on it though, it’s fine to not use something but also not want the ability to have it taken away from you. I use my freedom of speech pretty seldomly (I occasionally protest against a government bill I deem unfair), some people never use it, they’re still entitled to feel upset if the government tried to remove it.

 

[scgf]

I had it enabled but only because I saw an article on MacRumors about it releasing, probably wouldn’t have known about it otherwise. I disagree with your take on it though, it’s fine to not use something but also not want the ability to have it taken away from you. I use my freedom of speech pretty seldomly (I occasionally protest against a government bill I deem unfair), some people never use it, they’re still entitled to feel upset if the government tried to remove it.

I would be happy for *anything* I say privately to be made public. I never post anonymously and stand by what I say. A lot of the dissent comes from Americans who conflate being thoroughly nasty to others as ‘free speech’ and who have this strange adversarial relationship with their authorities. I can say what I like about the government, the King, whoever, without fear of retribution. It’s only when I cross the line and what I say can be construed as hate speech, or something worse there is a problem. It bothers me greatly as to what people are saying that they feel needs hiding from the security services. In a dictatorship the authorities would have access to your material anyway. Don’t mete out tired clichés about those of us who have nothing to hide as somehow anti-democratic. It doesn’t wash. It’s about responsibility and respect of others.

 

[Dr McKay]

I would be happy for *anything* I say privately to be made public. I never post anonymously and stand by what I say. A lot of the dissent comes from Americans who conflate being thoroughly nasty to others as ‘free speech’ and who have this strange adversarial relationship with their authorities. I can say what I like about the government, the King, whoever, without fear of retribution. It’s only when I cross the line and what I say can be construed as hate speech, or something worse there is a problem. It bothers me greatly as to what people are saying that they feel needs hiding from the security services. In a dictatorship the authorities would have access to your material anyway. Don’t mete out tired clichés about those of us who have nothing to hide as somehow anti-democratic. It doesn’t wash. It’s about responsibility and respect of others.

If you don’t care about privacy then that’s your choice, don’t push your opinions of what level of privacy is acceptable onto others. Your insinuations about people who do want privacy are frankly insulting, a right to a private life is a human right, if it can be revoked on a whim then it’s a privilege, not a right. Wanting privacy does not mean I have things to hide. Nowhere did I “mete out tired cliches” about people having nothing to hide, nowhere did I claim it was anti-democratic. I don’t even know how to address your unrelated tangent about Americans.

Please do try to stay on topic and refrain from making arguments up to attack.

 

[scgf]

If you don’t care about privacy then that’s your choice, don’t push your opinions of what level of privacy is acceptable onto others. Your insinuations about people who do want privacy are frankly insulting, a right to a private life is a human right, if it can be revoked on a whim then it’s a privilege, not a right. Wanting privacy does not mean I have things to hide. Nowhere did I “mete out tired cliches” about people having nothing to hide, nowhere did I claim it was anti-democratic. I don’t even know how to address your unrelated tangent about Americans.

Please do try to stay on topic and refrain was making arguments up to attack.

Please don’t use that patronising attitude, it lessens your argument. My ‘unrelated tangent’ about Americans is very relevant. There is a *lot* of noise across the pond about this issue. We pick up these attitudes and act on them regardless. The US media is throwing up its hands about what the UK government has done and the hysteria reaches us and we react. Please do try to see what’s actually happening rather than acting in a pompous, patronising way.

 

[Shirasaki]

My gut feeling tells me that despite those people’s best efforts, UK will prevail and start a new era of surveillance similar to the scale and depth of what China is doing right now. Many more advanced cameras will be installed nationwide, and privacy will likely become a thing of the past. Worse, arrests for “what if” crime could start to creep in. UK has fallen a very long way. Is there even anything left to reverse the course at this point?

 

[JonathanParker]

My gut feeling tells me that despite those people’s best efforts, UK will prevail and start a new era of surveillance similar to the scale and depth of what China is doing right now. Many more advanced cameras will be installed nationwide, and privacy will likely become a thing of the past. Worse, arrests for “what if” crime could start to creep in. UK has fallen a very long way. Is there even anything left to reverse the course at this point?

They’re already driving cars around doing facial recognition in some areas

 

[Shirasaki]

I am wondering how many of these people actually had ADP enabled in the first place? I don’t know anybody who had enabled it or even knew what it was. I suspect that’s the case for 99% of iOS or macOS users. It’s a lot of hot air IMO.

Even though most people don’t enable ADP, doesn’t mean disabling ADP is acceptable. It takes away choices for people who need enhanced data security, protects privacy and so on. Now, you may want to argue “what about kids”. Well, based on that logic, 99% of stuff adults used to would need to be banned “to protect kids”. Things like alcohol, cigarettes, most books, TV programs etc.

 

[0049190]

This article is deliberately misleading. Oppressed groups worldwide use encrypted messaging apps to avoid detection. That is not covered by this request. Apple already said this is not part of ADP and is encrypted by default with no options to switch it off.

 

[Shirasaki]

They’re already driving cars around doing facial recognition in some areas

Wow that’s novel. I have yet to see China doing the same. Granted that’s not the “leading province” but still.
I wonder why more and more countries look forward to China style surveillance nowadays.

 

[0049190]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this issue I get very angry when Maga idiots use stories like this to spread lies and misinformation to justify their anti-British rhetoric.

 

[0049190]

My gut feeling tells me that despite those people’s best efforts, UK will prevail and start a new era of surveillance similar to the scale and depth of what China is doing right now. Many more advanced cameras will be installed nationwide, and privacy will likely become a thing of the past. Worse, arrests for “what if” crime could start to creep in. UK has fallen a very long way. Is there even anything left to reverse the course at this point?

Research carried out by Comparitech revealed that, on average American cities have 11 surveillance cameras per 1,000 inhabitants.

Both facial recognition technologies and mobile ANPR use is widespread among US law enforcement agencies.

This is not a uniquely British problem. Every country uses this technology now.

 

[nt5672]

This article is deliberately misleading. Oppressed groups worldwide use encrypted messaging apps to avoid detection. That is not covered by this request. Apple already said this is not part of ADP and is encrypted by default with no options to switch it off.

But all of us that have been alive a few decades know for certain that the request will be expanded to include messaging Apps once everybody falls in line for this. And it will be done in secret.

 

[0049190]

But all of us that have been alive a few decades know for certain that the request will be expanded to include messaging Apps once everybody falls in line for this. And it will be done in secret.

Apple already said they do not have the keys to switch off encryption on messaging apps.

 

[JonathanParker]

Apple already said they do not have the keys to switch off encryption on messaging apps.

They have the ability to force a migration from encryption to no-encryption by pushing a software update which will change how encryption works on-device, or change how iCloud data is accessed, or a server side update which blocks access to iCloud until your devices hand over the keys (for example it could prompt you to enter your Apple password device passwords). For example, in settings we might see “Enter details to continue using iCloud services” which asks for device passwords and ultimately hand over encryption keys back to Apple who can decrypt the data and migrate data to not being E2EE anymore. If worse comes to worse I mean.

 

[scgf]

I have used personal computers since they were invented. I have used the internet since it was a thing and I have always believed that what I do or say online is visible to someone somewhere. Nothing is truly private on a network. Just accept that and act accordingly rather than arguing about principles. Call it British pragmatism.

 

[JonathanParker]

I have used personal computers since they were invented. I have used the internet since it was a thing and I have always believed that what I do or say online is visible to someone somewhere. Nothing is truly private on a network. Just accept that and act accordingly rather than arguing about principles.

Yes, you’re right that nothing is truly private when it is transmitted across a network or stored on a computer machine if there’s no end-to-end encryption. But there was. That’s what Apple previously offered to UK users with Advanced Data Protection—true cryptographic privacy for your iCloud data. Just to be clear, Advanced Data Protection provided mathematical and objective privacy for iCloud data (through cryptography). Like it’s maths… do you know what maths is? Anyways, unless you are willing to expose a mathematical issue with AES-256 and how end to end cryptography works please do not sit there and tell us to “accept that nothing is truly private on a network” because you are wrong because cryptography is involved. It’s almost reassuring to see the UK government making this request because it shows that our data was properly end-to-end encrypted in the first place.

 

[Ifti]

Something rotten in London

I completely disagree.
There is nothing rotten inside of London.
London as a whole is rotten. The whole thing. Including the Uk government.

 

[scgf]

Let's hope the apoplectic tech-heads spontaneously implode because only they and the criminals give a toss about the issue.

 

[JonathanParker]

Let's hope the apoplectic tech-heads spontaneously implode because only they and the criminals give a toss about the issue.

Even Wikipedia says that your “Nothing to hide” attitude is a logical fallacy.

 

[nnoble]

Something rotten in London

Not yet. And a good chance the visit will be cancelled.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Something rotten in London

and in Washington

It's rotten times all around

 

[JohnC1959]

I am wondering how many of these people actually had ADP enabled in the first place? I don’t know anybody who had enabled it or even knew what it was. I suspect that’s the case for 99% of iOS or macOS users. It’s a lot of hot air IMO.

I'm sure most don't. I've been using it for several months now. It allows me to safely keep my mac documents folder on the cloud so I can have them handy on my phone. If the government has a backdoor then so does a hacker and you can no longer have any documents on the server. And having the backdoor doesn't even help the government get files from criminals since they will just move to something else that is fully encrypted