Adding another HD

[CommonMan]

I just bought a Blue & White Power Mac G3/350 (code name Yosemite) loaded with OSX (and nothing else). The HD is 6 gigs and I need a lot more so I'd like to add another INTERNAL HD. I read a manual for a G4 (See note 1) and the operation appears to be pretty simple. I am just wondering if there is anything I need to look out for? I'm thinking as long as I am careful and do things like touch the chassis before I begin and not break anything inside I'll be OK. I think it's just a matter of taking a screw out of the "holder" and sliding the HD in and then connecting the power cable and the SISC (or whatever it's called) cable. Then, once I fire up the MAC, I can format or configure the HD to operate correctly. I'm hoping it will work and solve my space/storage problems. Otherwise, I'll have to go with an EXTERNAL HD and this would clutter up the work area.

Note 1: I could only find a manual for a G4 but it looks to be a very similar machine as far as the lay out of the machine.

 

[livingfortoday]

Are you using a SCSI drive, or a regular IDE drive as the second drive?

 

[deebster]

Have a read around in the G3 section at www.xlr8yourmac.com and find out whether you have a Revision A of the B & W.

These models have a problem with second internal HDs that could result in data corruption. It's been a while since I had to deal with this so can't remember if there is a workaround or guaranteed fix, other than the option of buying an SCSI (or other?) card and using that to connect to the second HD.

 

[CommonMan]

Type of Drive

I'm not sure - whatever will work and do the job. I like Seagate drives and may go out and buy one today if I feel confident about installing it. And, I want to get some assurance that it will accomplish my ultimate goal: to have more space on which to store music and to be able to play that music using I-tunes.

 

[CommonMan]

Deebster and Living For Today

Dear responders, IF I have a revision A model, it sounds like trouble. I think I may avoid the whole internal fuss by going with an external HD connected by the firewire port. I was told that the USB ports are the slow kind (less than 2.0) so I would get better data transfer if I used the firewire ports. However, I like the idea of an internal HD because then there's less clutter around and it's connected directly to the board (if this matters).

IF I have a revision B model, will the installation go better?

 

[livingfortoday]

The only issue I really think you'll have to worry about is if you want a drive larger than 120GB in your computer. If you go larger, you'll need a software hack to get it going, or get a PCI ATA or SATA card and hook up the drive that way.

Firewire would be better than USB, unless you get a USB 2.0 PCI card, just because of (as you mentioned) the speed issue. A case and drive will cost you as much as a ATA or SATA card and drive, however.

You can go to macsales.com and peruse their upgrade options for internal hard drives and controllers by system model.

 

[deebster]

Here's the link I was referring to. Also read around on the site about the B&W because it is a bit of a strange one. For instance, it has firewire, but is NOT bootable from an external firewire HD. And as you rightly point out, the USB connection is not USB 2.0, so is gonna be dog slow (1.5 MB/sec).

I bought a second hand Revision A machine for my mum to use, with the plan of doing what you are thinking of, but once I started to learn about the pitfalls I gave up on the idea. It's not a bad machine per se, just a bit of a bugger to do much with, and given the cost of upgrading you would probably be better served getting a second hand G4.

Anyway, somewhere on that site is a photo showing what a Rev A looks like inside. Hopefully yours isn't one. Good luck mate.

 

[CommonMan]

Thanks

LFT and G: thanks for the help.

LFT, no, I don't need to go that big (120 gb). I was thinking more like an 80 gb HD.

I have another question that perhaps I should ask in another section of the forum. However, I'll ask it anyway. If I go with a firewire connected external HD and I put all my music on the external HD, will I be able to play the music using I-Tunes? I think I remember someone saying they tried this and the I-tunes wanted the music to be on the primary HD.

 

[kondspi]

You can, but you may need to download an older version of iTunes and run it in parallel to your iTunes.
Try getting iTunes 1 or 2. After that, iTunes stopped playing music from external folders.

I think it might also be possible for you to move your entire iTunes library to the FireWir HD. Not sure, though...

 

[spinne1]

LFT and G: thanks for the help.

LFT, no, I don't need to go that big (120 gb). I was thinking more like an 80 gb HD.

I have another question that perhaps I should ask in another section of the forum. However, I'll ask it anyway. If I go with a firewire connected external HD and I put all my music on the external HD, will I be able to play the music using I-Tunes? I think I remember someone saying they tried this and the I-tunes wanted the music to be on the primary HD.

The music can be anywhere, however, in order for your iPod to sync correctly, it needs to be on your internal drive. If you don't use an iPod, then don't worry about it and put your music anywhere. As to your hard drive issue, go to ebay and get an IDE ATA 120 GB drive and it will work (DON'T get a SATA drive as it won't work). Make sure it is hooked up as master, and that the jumpers are as master. If you need to run an additional IDE cable inside the computer to the new HD, do it. The hard drive will come with an IDE cable.

 

[CommonMan]

The music can be anywhere, however, in order for your iPod to sync correctly, it needs to be on your internal drive. If you don't use an iPod, then don't worry about it and put your music anywhere. As to your hard drive issue, go to ebay and get an IDE ATA 120 GB drive and it will work (DON'T get a SATA drive as it won't work). Make sure it is hooked up as master, and that the jumpers are as master. If you need to run an additional IDE cable inside the computer to the new HD, do it. The hard drive will come with an IDE cable.

I'm thinking about going the external HD route now but it's good to know I can do the Internal thing. If I go the Internal route and make the new HD the master, then I will have problems with the operating system won't I? I got this old used MAC with OS 10.3 loaded but I don't have a copy. You can't just copy and operating system over can you?

Regarding the use of the external HD with I-tunes, I posted a comment in the ITUNES forum and they seem to think it will work.

 

[spinne1]

I'm thinking about going the external HD route now but it's good to know I can do the Internal thing. If I go the Internal route and make the new HD the master, then I will have problems with the operating system won't I? I got this old used MAC with OS 10.3 loaded but I don't have a copy. You can't just copy and operating system over can you?

Regarding the use of the external HD with I-tunes, I posted a comment in the ITUNES forum and they seem to think it will work.

You'd need to buy a used copy of Panther or Tiger off ebay ($30-60). You are not legally supposed to run an OS without owning it, and more importantly, you will eventually need the OS discs for troubleshooting, reinstalling, etc. You really need to get another hard drive, then reinstall the OS, then start fresh (there is a chance that the system you have now will start to act up because of many installs over time, and because of lack of maintainance over time, and because of the extremely small hard drive space (OS X is not made to run properly on such a small hard drive)).

But yes, technically you could just copy the hard drive over by using Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper and then boot from the new internal.

 

[CommonMan]

Spinne,

I get a little shakey when thinking about installing or copying an operating system. Maybe this is because all I've ever worked with is PCs and I've done such an operation so infrequently that I can't remember everything. Now there is something new to think about - should I get a copy of the operating system? I guess I can think about it for a while. Meanwhile, I'm thinking about this at work which is my way of procrastinating.

 

[CommonMan]

Legal Issue

If I buy a used computer with the operating system on it, don't I "own" the operating system? I guess not. Could the sellers of the computer be in trouble for copying the OS onto more than one computer?

 

[spinne1]

If I buy a used computer with the operating system on it, don't I "own" the operating system? I guess not. Could the sellers of the computer be in trouble for copying the OS onto more than one computer?

No, and yes.

 

[CommonMan]

Looking Good

Thanks for all the input. Thanks for all your help. I'm impetuous so I went out and purchased a 120-gigabyte Seagate Hard Drive and a External Hard Drive case which will allow fire wire and USB 2.0 connections. I hooked it up and it's working great. I think I've solved the problem of data storage on my MAC with it's limited 6 gig HD. I think I have done the correct procedure to transfer my i-Tunes library to the 120 HD so things are going well. I don't intend to move the 120 or use it in any other computer. My other problem is I still can't seem to get my other USB 40 gig HD to work in both computers. I formatted it using the MAC disk utilities and it was accepted and recognized by the MAC but now the PC will not recognize it. The PC says the external HD is working (when going through the install hardware function) but it won't "show" it on Windows Explorer. Therefore, I can't work with it on the PC. I need to transfer a large amount of data from the PC to the MAC.

 

[spinne1]

Thanks for all the input. Thanks for all your help. I'm impetuous so I went out and purchased a 120-gigabyte Seagate Hard Drive and a External Hard Drive case which will allow fire wire and USB 2.0 connections. I hooked it up and it's working great. I think I've solved the problem of data storage on my MAC with it's limited 6 gig HD. I think I have done the correct procedure to transfer my i-Tunes library to the 120 HD so things are going well. I don't intend to move the 120 or use it in any other computer. My other problem is I still can't seem to get my other USB 40 gig HD to work in both computers. I formatted it using the MAC disk utilities and it was accepted and recognized by the MAC but now the PC will not recognize it. The PC says the external HD is working (when going through the install hardware function) but it won't "show" it on Windows Explorer. Therefore, I can't work with it on the PC. I need to transfer a large amount of data from the PC to the MAC.

In order to use it on both the PC and Mac, you must format it in Fat32. Go to Disk Utility with the drive hooked up and reformat it using MS-DOS File System instead of Mac OS Extended. Make sure there is nothing important on the drive as this process will erase everything on it! After doing this, you should be able to read and write to the hard drive from both computers.

 

[CommonMan]

In order to use it on both the PC and Mac, you must format it in Fat32. Go to Disk Utility with the drive hooked up and reformat it using MS-DOS File System instead of Mac OS Extended. Make sure there is nothing important on the drive as this process will erase everything on it! After doing this, you should be able to read and write to the hard drive from both computers.

I will try to format it in Fat32 but there are 2 problems: 1. OS 10.3 does not appear to give me that option and 2. The drive is 40 gigs and someone said something about FAT32 formating will only allow for a limited amount of gigs under 40 (can't remember exact amount).

So, I think I may have the option of switching to the OS9 operating system by just pointing and clicking for the first problem and for the second problem, will I have to partition the disk drive?

 

[spinne1]

I will try to format it in Fat32 but there are 2 problems: 1. OS 10.3 does not appear to give me that option and 2. The drive is 40 gigs and someone said something about FAT32 formating will only allow for a limited amount of gigs under 40 (can't remember exact amount).

So, I think I may have the option of switching to the OS9 operating system by just pointing and clicking for the first problem and for the second problem, will I have to partition the disk drive?

I already answered your concern in my last post. Simply do what I said to do and you will be fine. MS-DOS option in Disk Utility under OS X *IS* Fat32. It is the same thing using a different name. There is no limit for Fat32 that you need to be concerned with:
http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/hard_drives/file_systems.htm

Lastly, you do not want to run OS 9 if you can help it. Compared to OS X, it is like going back to Windows 3.1 after running XP.

I do not really understand your last question.