Adobe Premier Elements for Mac

[PenguinMac]

Adobe has released Premier Elements 9 for the Mac, the first time this PC video editing program has been available for OS X. I'm eagerly waiting to see if it solves 2 of my Mac video editing issues: read AVCHD .mts files directly without having the full disk structure available (an annoying requirement of Apple video editing software for those of us with years of older AVCHD videos) and read MPEG2 files with Dolby Digital audio directly without first converting them to an Apple-acceptable format. I have 28 years of home movies from 1982 to 2010 that I'd like to edit on my Mac Pro, all in .mts or .mpg with AC3 audio that i'd rather not pre-convert before editing.

On the other hand, if the program is buggy or slow or only outputs to non-Apple standard MPEG4 formats, then it won't be as helpful as I'm hoping it will be. I'll know soon....

 

[martinX]

This is a big thing. It even claims to be able to make Blurays ... interesting.

The main thing I'm looking for is for its ability to shut some people up

 

[PenguinMac]

The main thing I'm looking for is for its ability to shut some people up

Yes, working with AVCHD .mts files and MPEG2 .mpg files with AC3 audio are among the biggest complaints from people new to OS X - including me .

 

[akdj]

Really? Have you been editing native AVC footage on Windows? With what software? I was under the impression that's a relatively new option and relegated to users of CS5 Premier ONLY...along with the best in todays processor technology...both CPU and nVidia 'cuda enabled GPUs...is that not correct?

AVC is not an editing format. I think you guys may be looking at it backwards. it's a delivery codec. We need the cameras to change their acquisition formats. The ability to edit native AVC is not a limit of software...that's some gnarly number crunching...and more limiting due to hardware choices, and until recently (CPU architecture) choices have been limited.

For instance, Canon has released a nice little FREE algorithm for FCP...and it's awesome...speeds up the L&T process significantly. Due to the amazing popularity of the video abilities in their new lineup of cameras, they just released the plug in this past spring. Not sure if they've done so with other NLE's...but for each NLE programmer to come up with an algorithm for processing EVERY camera manufacturer's AVC brand of codec (there are many dozens of them!!!), seems to be asking a lot.

Perhaps you guys are right though...and as the future rolls on, we'll see updates as commonplace, like they do with Aperture or ACR...the addition of the RAW convertors for cameras a month or two after they drop. As it is kind of the same thing...these codecs are proprietary to each camera and specific manufacturer.

If I'm totally off base here, and you X-Windoze converts have been happily editing native AVC footage on consumer grade computers, my bad. Please enlighten me!!! Otherwise, the conversion process is the best option to speed up the editing process, and efficient workflow IMO.

All that said...I am excited to see them release Premier Elements on the Mac. I also love the capabilities of CS5 all the way around...HOPEFULLY this will kick Apple in the butt to update FCP...and more importantly, IMO...for the enthusiast market..>FCP Express. Both could benefit from Adobe's move...assuming Apple is content to stay active in the Professional software/hardware arena...and hasn't become happy with consumer level gadgetry. Time will tell

J

 

[PenguinMac]

Really? Have you been editing native AVC footage on Windows? With what software? I was under the impression that's a relatively new option and relegated to users of CS5 Premier ONLY...along with the best in todays processor technology...both CPU and nVidia 'cuda enabled GPUs...is that not correct?

See my sig for the Dell I used to edit AVCHD with Adobe Premier Elements for Windows. Of course it was a very fast PC, and used all the drives I now have in my Mac Pro. The problem? Premier Elements could only output to AVCHD, and not even a camera-specific format at that, so was unplayable on media players (like Windows Media Player) that could otherwise play AVCHD perfectly. So you payed for the convenience of AVCHD editing with no output options.

AVCHD is a bastardized format of H.264 inside an MPEG2 transport stream container. When the camera makers agreed on the format, they were still using tape so I guess needed a transport stream container their hardware and software could work with, inherited from HDV. And our complaint is that Apple software cannot ingest .mts files without having the disk format, which is long gone for us because the camera makers Windows software built .mts files for us and tossed the original disk formats they were stored in. ClipWrap is my only option for getting these files into FCE without any transcoding (replaces the MPEG2 transport stream container but leaves the H.264 intact). I just want to see if there's a better way.

 

[martinX]

AVC is not an editing format. I think you guys may be looking at it backwards. it's a delivery codec.

No argument from me.

All that said...I am excited to see them release Premier Elements on the Mac. I also love the capabilities of CS5 all the way around...HOPEFULLY this will kick Apple in the butt to update FCP...and more importantly, IMO...for the enthusiast market..>FCP Express. Both could benefit from Adobe's move...assuming Apple is content to stay active in the Professional software/hardware arena...and hasn't become happy with consumer level gadgetry. Time will tell

Once again, agreed.

I use FCE at home because I use FCP at work, but another entrant in the consumer arena is certainly welcome. Is Prem Elements good enough to be "prosumer"? F'rinstance, I could certainly do my job just with FCE and Livetype. Would Premier Elements be up to that level, or is it "iMovie Plus"? (I know, I could d/l the trial...)

 

[akdj]

"AVCHD is a bastardized format of H.264 inside an MPEG2 transport stream container. When the camera makers agreed on the format, they were still using tape so I guess needed a transport stream container their hardware and software could work with, inherited from HDV."

In the beginning, and in some cases...sure. Especially on the consumer front. However, keep in mind...as early as '03 the standard DID include High Quality and High rez color info at 4.2.2 and 4.4.4. AVC is suggestive of many, many different delivery methods...from low bitrate internet streaming to broadcast quality HDTV and digital cinema applications at near lossless encoding...Blu Rays to compressed iPhone/iPod/iPad movies....H.264/AVC is an excellent way to save a ton of space (HDD), yet not sacrifice a ton of quality.

Keep in mind...some of new implementations of AVCHD (Panny/Sony) and AVCIntra (Panasonic) are a couple of the "Kings" of codecs right now in some incredible digital motion cameras. I certainly wouldn't consider these "Bastardized" codecs. However, some of the implementations in the consumer gadgetry I would agree. Problem is, there seems to be no rhyme or reason for some of the company's proprietary algorithms. It would be nice if there was some standard across the line...and this would help the software developers significantly.

"And our complaint is that Apple software cannot ingest .mts files without having the disk format, which is long gone for us because the camera makers Windows software built .mts files for us and tossed the original disk formats they were stored in."

Agreed. Hopefully though, we'll get this capability in future iterations of FCP.

"ClipWrap is my only option for getting these files into FCE without any transcoding (replaces the MPEG2 transport stream container but leaves the H.264 intact). I just want to see if there's a better way."

Have you tried MPeg Streamclip? It's been an angel of mine for the past couple of years for converting almost everything that Compressor is incapable of, or too slow to wait for

Lots of good reading to do on AVC though...it seems to get a bad wrap because of some of the products that use the codec for capture. Where I would guess the software implementation is bad or the hardware sucks...giving AVC the undeserved bad name. In November of last year, for instance, a new form of AVC (Called MVC or Annex H) has allowed for multiple bit stream info simultaneously...allowing 3d stereoscopic 3D viewing! Pretty exciting stuff, actually...and it'll be around for a while, is my guess.

J

 

[martinX]

Keep in mind...some of new implementations of AVCHD (Panny/Sony) and AVCIntra (Panasonic) are a couple of the "Kings" of codecs right now in some incredible digital motion cameras.

AVC looks interesting but given that you need to use AVC100 (at 100 mbps) to get 4:2:2, I'd consider getting a Ki Pro Mini to go straight to ProRes (at about 140 mbps) negating the need for any ingesting procedure.

 

[akdj]

Agreed. Any time you can eliminate a step, all is good.

I'm very fond of the new (few month old) plug-in from Canon for FCP for my 5d/7d footage. It's amazingly fast compared to the "old" way through Compressor. I'm working on a 2 year old Mac Pro ('08/3.0ghz), so obviously, improvements have been made and your setup may smoke mine due to hardware.

Have you downloaded Premier Elements yet? I'm going to play around this evening a bit with the Canon footage...and both footage from my HVX and EX1. I've always been happy with the way FCP handles the native footage from both video cameras...and as mentioned, they've made HUGE strides with the Canon plug-in for the DSLRs. It would be VERY nice if the other manufacturers of cameras provided the same relief for AVC to XXX codec conversion...as I'm sure, regardless of how fast the new Premier is...AVC is STILL not the opportune way edit footage. YMMV.

I use a NanoFlash to grab our XDCam footage from the EX...P2 has come down significantly in price since I picked up the HVX...and DVC-Pro is brilliant in FCP. No need to transcode for editing.

But I'm with ya...anytime you can eliminate an entire step, ESPECIALLY conversion or transcoding...it's a HUGE bonus. Not a cheap one though, generally

J

 

[shorafix]

Why don't you simply download the testdrive from adobes webpage? I did so a couple of days ago. Actually I recently re-edited some FPC Projects within Premiere Pro CS5 and was amazed from the convenience and speed of working with AVCHD as well as HDV footage. This experience made me curious what the little offspring Premiere Elements could do. From my limited experience I must say, it's not Premiere Pro and it's not iMovie - it's rather something in between. However, with PE it is in fact possible to edit AVCHD files natively, backup the original files as AVCHD container(.mtsbdmv) and distribute it for instance as Blu-ray easily.

 

[PenguinMac]

Why don't you simply download the testdrive from adobes webpage?

Because I'm stupid ! Thanks for reminding me to do that, and for telling us your experience with Premier Elements. I hope to try it soon. And what I didn't mention was the main reason I used Premier Elements on Windows: it has an excellent facility for auto-exposure of under-exposed AVCHD video. As many of my videos are indoors (children's music performances, etc.), and my previous Canon AVCHD camcorder underexposed indoor scenes much more than my current Sony, it was an important selling point for me. Of course I presume FCE can do the same, but I haven't been able to try that yet.