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After updating to Sequoia Finder does not find system files anymore

A

amok-san

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 12, 2008
92
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A couple of days ago I updated from the last Sonoma to Sequoia 15.2.
Since then the Finder is unable to find any system files or folders. The search option "include system files" has no effect anymore.
I tried rebuilding the Spotlight index a bunch of times to no avail.
Does anyone have a similar problem or any idea on how to solve this?
 
Just to clarify - you mention "Finder" does not locate them but I presume you're really referring to Spotlight, is that right? In other words - if you KNOW the location then Finder DOES see it, it's only searches not working?
 
Yes, I can navigate to system files no problem.
It's just the search won't find them, even with "include system files" enabled.
It used to work in Sonoma.

I also did reset the Finder by deleting its preference file to no avail.
 
OP:

Can you provide us with an example of WHICH files you're searching for?
A name or two, so that others may try what you tried?
 
Well, for example the file "com.apple.animoji.plist" in the folder /Users/yourhomefoldername/Library/Preferences.
It's there, but even with the "include system files" option turned on, it won't turn up in a search.
Am I misremembering that this used to work? I mean what's the point of the "include system files" option then?
 
Hmm, I also see this problem. Pretty sure it used to work.

fisherking said:
did the finder ever search system files?
Click to expand...

Pretty sure it did. In the drop down used to build an advanced search, you can choose "System files" to be included or not. You might have to get that using the "Other..." choice in the drop down.
 
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I'm getting random results. Originally when I searched for the animoji file it wasn't found. Then I toggled System Files on and off a few times. Now that file is always found, no matter the choice.
 
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Very weird. Are you searching in the specific folder (Users/yourname/Library/Preferences) or "This Mac"?
 
"Well, for example the file "com.apple.animoji.plist" in the folder /Users/yourhomefoldername/Library/Preferences."

I tried using the free utility "EasyFind", and it found that file right away.
Clicking on it (in EasyFind) and typing command-R (reveal in finder) takes me to where it is.
I can then "operate" on it as required.

Personal experience:
When I need to find a file, I use either EasyFind or Find Any File.
I NEVER use Spotlight (in fact, I disable it), nor the finder's "find" function...
 
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amok-san said:
Very weird. Are you searching in the specific folder (Users/yourname/Library/Preferences) or "This Mac"?
Click to expand...

Perhaps I wasn't paying enough attention during my earlier test. Now, when I search "This Mac", the file is never found, no matter the setting. When I search in "Preferences", the file is always found.
 
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These are hidden files by default.

to see them a hotkey is needed: Ctrl+shift+: //i have a windows keyboard ;)
to hide them same hotkey again.
 
olavsu1 said:
These are hidden files by default.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean.

The preference files have never been hidden in Finder on my mac computers over many generations of macOS. The ~/Library file can be set to be shown or not in Finder using the view options (cmd-J) for the home folder. I have mine set to show that folder. But even if I have Library set to not show, I can still navigate into it and see the preference files without making any effort to show hidden files.

Whether plist files are found during spotlight searches is a different matter. If one were to believe the search option for "System files", which says "Include system files, such as preference files and plug-ins", then there is a bug.

sl.jpg
 
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i got into using 'find my files' when i wanted to clear out all files from a demo, or a discarded app... or anything generally unfindable in the system. anyway, that app is my go-to...
 
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svenmany said:
Perhaps I wasn't paying enough attention during my earlier test. Now, when I search "This Mac", the file is never found, no matter the setting. When I search in "Preferences", the file is always found.
Click to expand...
amok-san said:
Well, for example the file "com.apple.animoji.plist" in the folder /Users/yourhomefoldername/Library/Preferences.
It's there, but even with the "include system files" option turned on, it won't turn up in a search.
Click to expand...
Confirm I get this behaviour. Finder search in ~/Library for name contains "Animoji" finds com.apple.animoji.plist and a couple of folders. Search in boot disk (or "This Mac") finds nothing.
 
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olavsu1 said:
These are hidden files by default.

to see them a hotkey is needed: Ctrl+shift+: //i have a windows keyboard ;)
to hide them same hotkey again.
Click to expand...
They're not hidden files, just system files macOS doesn't want you to see in the search results.


Anyway, thank you guys for confirming this behaviour for me!
At least now I know I don't have to mess with reinstalling the OS or similar.
Guess I'll take to using FindAnyFile from now on.
 
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I just installed an audio plugin and I would routinely delete the versions I don't use.
Searching for these file and clicking on "include system files" was muscle memory and they didn't show up like they used to.
I'm now 100% sure that something changed from Sonoma to Sequoia.
 
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amok-san said:
Well, for example the file "com.apple.animoji.plist" in the folder /Users/yourhomefoldername/Library/Preferences.
It's there, but even with the "include system files" option turned on, it won't turn up in a search.
Am I misremembering that this used to work? I mean what's the point of the "include system files" option then?
Click to expand...
I asked the developer of HoudahSpot (a better way of searching the Spotlight index) what is happening with this file. My paraphrase of the response and using your example file:

1. At some point in the past (before Sequoia), Spotlight stopped indexing ~/Library/Preferences. You can see this with the Terminal command mdls ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.animoji.plist which returns only kMDItemFS fields - that is just file system data, the file has not been indexed by Spotlight.

2. When searching with Finder in ~/Library or This Mac, Finder uses the Spotlight index to find files. And so fails to find unindexed files, like ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.animoji.plist.

3. But when searching with Finder in a specific directory (like ~/Library/Preferences), Finder does a direct search of the file system (not Spotlight) for simple file data like file system name. So when searching in ~/Library/Preferences for "animoji" as part of a name, a Finder search does successfully find ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.animoji.plist.

4. When searching in ~/Library/Preferences for file content, this will always fail because its files are not indexed.

This has nothing directly to do with hidden or system files.
 
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Interesting.
I also tried manually importing the ~/Library with mdimport , to no avail.
What irritates me is that it used to work, now the function to include system files is completely useless.😤
 
Last edited:
amok-san said:
Interesting.
I also tried manually importing the ~/Library with mdimport , to no avail.
What irritates me is that it used to work, now the function to include system files is completely useless.😤
Click to expand...

If it makes you feel better, I just tested for this on a Catalina system and it's not working there for me...
 
amok-san said:
I also tried manually importing the ~/Library with mdimport , to no avail.
What irritates me is that it used to work, now the function to include system files is completely useless.😤
Click to expand...
Don't confuse importing with searching.

The problem with files in ~/Library/Preferences is with importing/indexing. Since some time in the past (pre macOS 14.7) the importer was changed to not import files in ~/Library/Preferences, even if you explicitly ask it to with mdimport.

Since these files have not been imported, they can't be given in any search results using just the Spotlight index. The search options regarding system and hidden files are irrelevant when that is the case.

There has never been an option to include system files in the index, only ever in the search results. We have always been constrained by what Apple has chosen to include in the index. That can change at any time and most likely without any fanfare.
 
gilby101 said:
There has never been an option to include system files in the index...
Click to expand...

I don't know how to reconcile that with your other comment

gilby101 said:
At some point in the past (before Sequoia), Spotlight stopped indexing ~/Library/Preferences.
Click to expand...

So, at some point preferences were indexed but system files were not. So preferences must not be considered system files. Does that follow from your comments? I guess I'm reading "There has never been an option" as "There has never been the ability". Did I get that wrong?
 
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