all this talk about Tibook next week, but where's the IBOOK?

[GeorgeC97]

well, it seems like the new Tibook should be expected next week... and that's fine and dandy, provided you are willing to spend close to 3 grand on a laptop (tax, shipping, case, extra ram etc) --- that's just a bit too much for a 'non-professional' user (in my opinion). (btw - I'm a medical student -- i really need it for running AOL, internet exploror, powerpoint, word, and Palm desktop mostly)

But when is the ibook going to come out for the rest of us? do you know anything about this, "educational sale," so that it HAS to come out before July? Would it be significant, or is the extra $1000 really worth it? This whole G3 thing is confusing to me -- really, i don't any graphic editing etc... but then when i see all the PC laptops my friends are getting (now P4!) -- certainly a P4 will last them easily the next 3+ years... but could I expect to get the same longevity out of a G3?

I want an Ibook so badly (seems perfect), but I don't want to be left in the dust 1 year from now... with a cool looking laptop, but just ancient. Granted i don't need speed toooo much, but I'd like a "zippy" computer.

any opinions from the mac veterans out there?

Oh yeah -- the above programs I mentioned -- with the ibook - would I have problems if ALL of those programs were open at the same time? I go back and forth btwn Office applications and the internet (AOL and IE) and even my palm. would i have to wait for screen redraws?? anyone know this?


thanks all !
------------------------------
*I started off on an apple II C then Mac SE, then the Color classic - before switching to PC hell for the last 9 years... it's time for me to go back ! i can't wait.

 

[rainman::|:|]

See the current thread, "When do think apple will update the ibook and what will the specks be?"

Usually best to check the current forums on stuff like this, because there's almost always a relevant discussion happening...


pnw

 

[Grokgod]

Do not buy a G3, anything!

From what i can tell, if you want to get a few years of use out of a laptop.
Then there is no doubt that you should not under any circumstances buy a g3
ibook. I can safely say that without any fear of leading you astray.

If money is your concern then you should purchase a G4 powerbook when the newer speed bumped models come out which will reduce the price on the lesser models. The 550 or the 667, the g4 will get your through a few years hopefully. And if Apple continues to work on the speed issue of OSX then your investment will last even longer.

Go g4 or stay at home and dream, you will be happier in the long run.

You can take that to the bank!

If money is your only concern you can always pay a lot less and get a lot less with a Pchesse laptop. But that has holes in it like swiss cheese.

 

[alex_ant]

Re: all this talk about Tibook next week, but where's the IBOOK?

Originally posted by GeorgeC97
But when is the ibook going to come out for the rest of us? do you know anything about this, "educational sale," so that it HAS to come out before July? Would it be significant, or is the extra $1000 really worth it? This whole G3 thing is confusing to me -- really, i don't any graphic editing etc... but then when i see all the PC laptops my friends are getting (now P4!) -- certainly a P4 will last them easily the next 3+ years... but could I expect to get the same longevity out of a G3?

Probably not... unless you won't be using OS X. The G3 is barely fast enough today - or way too slow, depending on who you talk to - but you don't sound like you'll be pushing it very hard, so I would say the 600MHz G3 would be fast enough for you at the moment. No matter what, though, it's not going to last as long as a P4 laptop will in terms of performance.

Keep in mind though that iBook will give you a very good return on investment - even better than a PC laptop - so if in a year or two you decide you need something faster, you could always just eBay the thing and buy the new model.

I want an Ibook so badly (seems perfect), but I don't want to be left in the dust 1 year from now... with a cool looking laptop, but just ancient. Granted i don't need speed toooo much, but I'd like a "zippy" computer.

The iBook is not zippy in OS X, not even with its RAM maxed out, unless you are either a masochist, a Mac fanboy in denial, or are upgrading from a 386 running Windows 95. For perspective, I have a 550MHz PowerBook G4, which is slightly faster than the 600MHz iBook at most non-AltiVec tasks, (the G3 doesn't have AltiVec.) and performance-wise, it's not too great. I wish it were a lot faster. It gets the job done with very few problems, and I think I push my computer a lot harder than you would be pushing your iBook. I don't regret my purchase, but, yeah... it's generally nowhere near a P4 laptop.

Oh yeah -- the above programs I mentioned -- with the ibook - would I have problems if ALL of those programs were open at the same time? I go back and forth btwn Office applications and the internet (AOL and IE) and even my palm. would i have to wait for screen redraws?? anyone know this?

As long as you have enough RAM, you'll be alright. (In OS X, at least.) I would recommend at least 384MB. It's pretty sad that you need that much RAM to do what you need to do smoothly, but that's the way it is...

Alex

 

[PB180]

Get the iBook!

I just got an ibook last week... 600 Combo 12.1" version

It's quite "zippy" and certainly gets the job done. Don't listen to the "pro" users who are only happy with the very top of the line models. For basic word processing and simple Photoshop tasks, the G3 is great. And with enough RAM, any computer can run OS X fine.

The iBook is great because of its tiny size and bright screen. It also is built a bit tougher than the TiBook. If you aren't doing rendering and other processor intensive tasks, a G3 is great - especially the 600 with the 100 bus (versus the slower bus in the 500). I myself had a perfectly fast G3 desktop on my desk for several years... when I bought it, it was very very fast. It seemed less fast compared to more modern ones after a few years, but it didn't matter.

Besides, I found that I still did 90% of my work on a Powerbook 180 that is now nearly ten years old! Portability is the key for a laptop - not fancy speed. If you can wait for the next update, there is always something new around the corner. But I wouldn't let the lack of a G4 stop you, especially since it also means the iBook lacks a fan to cool that chip down!

Good luck with your purchase.

 

[alex_ant]

Re: Get the iBook!

Originally posted by PB180
It's quite "zippy" and certainly gets the job done. Don't listen to the "pro" users who are only happy with the very top of the line models.

On a 550MHz G4 in OS X.1.4, having AIM open, two web browser windows open, and iTunes playing an MP3 all at once brings the G4 to its knees. The fan comes on high and the load shoots up past 3.0. If doing all that makes me a pro user, then I guess I'll shut up, but if not, be very very careful about getting a G3. At the very least, try the iBook out before you buy it.

And with enough RAM, any computer can run OS X fine.

Many would disagree with you here - not just the pro users either. If by fine you mean barely adequately and occasionally quite painfully, then I would agree that any computer can run OS X fine.

The iBook is great because of its tiny size and bright screen. It also is built a bit tougher than the TiBook. If you aren't doing rendering and other processor intensive tasks, a G3 is great - especially the 600 with the 100 bus (versus the slower bus in the 500).

Yes, the 100MHz bus is a must. Are they still selling the 66MHz model? If so, steer clear of that sucker. The iBook is indeed a great design and is very well built - no one's going to argue against that. And the lack of a fan, as you mentioned, is very nice. I would have probably bought the iBook myself, actually, if not for the PowerBook's better video... although I would have been even more disappointed with its speed than I am now.

Alex

 

[Backtothemac]

Hey Alex, long time not talk....

Anyway, look I agree totally on the G4 being a better processor, but that doesn't mean that the Ti is a better value for this guy.

I have an iMac 600 SE with a gig of ram, and an iBook 600 with 640. I can say that right now as I write this I have Virtual PC open installing Office 2000 Pro. (my wife needs frontpage for schoolwork ) I also have Mozilla open, Mail, Terminal, and Word. I can switch between them with almost no laitency at all. I know the G3 is not perfect, but for average users, it is more than fine.

As far as value and lasting long. Go to e-bay and look at what the original iBook are selling for. This guy can get one like mine from smalldog for 1449, and sell it in two years for 700 bucks. Buy a 1.8 GHZ Dell laptop today for 2400 bucks and sell it in two years for what about 400 - 600? Much better return on the Mac.

Also, OS X on the iBook 600 is more than adequate. Everyone talks about it as if it is slow. Well, go to a CompUSA or to an Apple store and compare the two. You may be suprised.

 

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Anyway, look I agree totally on the G4 being a better processor, but that doesn't mean that the Ti is a better value for this guy.

Oh, I never meant to say that it was...

I guess I can't argue with your firsthand iBook experience, having never specifically used an iBook myself. I only felt qualified to comment on its performance based upon the slew of benchmarks barefeats.com did awhile back. The bottom line is that if the computer does what you want/need it to do, then that's all that matters. I was just worried for the thread-starter's sake that the iBook might not be that computer a couple years down the line.

Whether or not it would be a good idea to buy an iBook now, though, with a probable speed bump coming sometime before or during this summer, is kind of a tough call... Would Jesus buy an iBook right now? No, he'd probably buy one of those 10GHz notebook BeBox G7s, which happen to be available only in Heaven... and he'd get it free anyway, because, he's, you know... Jesus.

Alex

 

[herbsbuck]

Re: Re: Get the iBook!

Originally posted by alex_ant

On a 550MHz G4 in OS X.1.4, having AIM open, two web browser windows open, and iTunes playing an MP3 all at once brings the G4 to its knees. The fan comes on high and the load shoots up past 3.0. If doing all that makes me a pro user, then I guess I'll shut up, but if not, be very very careful about getting a G3. At the very least, try the iBook out before you buy it.


As a student that is obsessed with Macs, I chose to buy an iBook last June. With all the talk about iBooks and their inability to run OS X well is crap. I've been running OS X since 10.0.4 on my iBook and love it. My roommate has a TiBook and yes, it is faster; however, for basic Photoshop (especially now with 7), Word Processing, Browsing, listening to and watching multimedia files, and syncing with PDAs the iBook is great--especially for its price. I run multiple programs at once in OS X and it works like a charm. OS X is an extremely stable platform. Since OS 10.1 was released I have had very few crashes (under 5 or 6 since October) and the crashed that occured were related to using Classic in OS X. Keepi in mind that the iBook is relatively inexpensive, small, light, and compact. As far as the G3 processor goes--it is still a great processor. Keep in mind, the G4 is BASICALLY (and I know I'm going to get heck for saying this) a suped-up G3 with Alti-Vec. If you are worried about performance--wait until this summer and see what Apple releases in the portable line. They should be releasing some great new products--faster TiBook and maybe even G4 iBooks (who knows).

 

[cb911]

hey GeorgeC97, if you're not a professional then why are you worried about the TiBooks being too expensive, you shouldn't even need the extra power of the TiBook. i'd say that a iBook would be fine, but it's definitely worth reading other threads about the iBooks. even better than reading other threads is going and trying an iBook for yourself.

 

[mcrain]

Re: all this talk about Tibook next week, but where's the IBOOK?

Originally posted by GeorgeC97
btw - I'm a medical student -- i really need it for running AOL, internet exploror, powerpoint, word, and Palm desktop mostly

What year are you? My wife is graduating in less than a month. If you are just starting out or still in your first year or two, I might be able to help you out with what you can expect to need your computer for. If you are at the tail end of your medical school career, then when you start your residency, your computer buying ability and preferences will change dramatically.

For a MSI, MSII, or even an MSIII I'd suggest whatever is inexpensive but works. A 12" ibook will work for you. Speed won't be all that important when you are typing up H&P's, listenting to music and updating your MDConsult (all at the same time).

On the other hand, if you are an MSIV (or about to be), I'd stick with withever is in the library or whatever piece of junk you can get second hand. You won't have the money for anything good, and it's stupid to buy something cheap when your income potential is about to begin growing.

If you are finishing up Med School (current MSIV), wait a month or so, start your residency, and see whether your program assists the residents with computers. If not, you can still save up some of that money you'll be making (for the first time) and buy something really good (TiBook? or whatver is coming soon) and you may be able to deduct the cost as a business expense (btw, keep track of the cost of all your coats, stethescopes, otoscopes, books, etc... for your tax professional)

Where are you going to school and what do you plan on specializing in? If you have any questions about what the different years are like, let me know.

 

[mcrain]

Oh, as a matter of perspective, once you get done with residency, you will be able to afford the best, top of the line maxed out TiBook with about one weeks take home pay. So, don't worry about it too much.

(edit) and, that's assuming you don't choose one of the exclusive specialties. (edit)

 

[Falleron]

I heard that the Mobile P4 1.6Ghz was only just matching a P3 1Ghz in the tests I read about! As for the G3, I suggest you wait until the new powerbooks come out + then quickly grab a discounted older model. The ibook is a great little machine but the G4 is a good investment. I would say that you could easily get 3 years out of an ibook though (might be a little slow by then). HOWEVER, wait until OSX.2 comes out so we can see how much faster it is (could make OSX on a G3 not even a question + plenty fast enough)

Hope it helps

 

[Catfish_Man]

Re: Re: Get the iBook!

Originally posted by alex_ant

On a 550MHz G4 in OS X.1.4, having AIM open, two web browser windows open, and iTunes playing an MP3 all at once brings the G4 to its knees. The fan comes on high and the load shoots up past 3.0. If doing all that makes me a pro user, then I guess I'll shut up, but if not, be very very careful about getting a G3. At the very least, try the iBook out before you buy it.


Your G4 is slooooooow. My G3 233 does better than that. 2-3 different browsers with at least one window each (I'm testing a bunch of different ones), AIM, Terminal, sometimes mail (although mail slows it down some), and it still runs moderately well (it beachballs, but still gets stuff done fairly quickly).

 

[alex_ant]

Re: Re: Re: Get the iBook!

Originally posted by Catfish_Man
Your G4 is slooooooow. My G3 233 does better than that. 2-3 different browsers with at least one window each (I'm testing a bunch of different ones), AIM, Terminal, sometimes mail (although mail slows it down some), and it still runs moderately well (it beachballs, but still gets stuff done fairly quickly).

Yeah, that's what all the Apple cheerleaders keep telling me. My TiBook is actually an "upgrade" from a 550MHz AMD K6 running Linux, which ran far faster than this machine does at non-Altivec apps... maybe Apple dropped a PPC 603 onto my motherboard by accident or something.

Alex

 

[IndyGopher]

Re: Get the iBook!

Originally posted by PB180
I just got an ibook last week... 600 Combo 12.1" version
... But I wouldn't let the lack of a G4 stop you, especially since it also means the iBook lacks a fan to cool that chip down!

I don't know where that rumor got started, but all the dual USB iBooks have fans. I admit I've never heard them run, but I've taken half a dozen of them apart (hard drive upgrades, mostly) and there's a cute little 3/4" inch square fan right there in front of the grill.

 

[jefhatfield]

macs have the best return on investment

my original ibook cost me 1599 and now two and a half years later, it's worth 799

my pc laptop which listed for the same as the ibook now is worth 599 or even 499...and pc laptops being so fast today, there is almost no way i can find a buyer for the 1999 era pc laptop

if i put my ibook up for sale, i know someone somewhere would be glad to take it off my hands

so get the ibook, but if you get the tibook, it will hold up longer and give you better performance from day one...it is what your needs are and that's all you will have to worry about

 

[sparkleytone]

alex i'd say the main reason your g4 is being brought to its knees is your running AIM. if you are truly running the AOL IM client from AOL, then you haven't experienced the way IM clients actually function on Macs. AOL is a POS company that could care less about Mac users and this is obvious by the lack of a passable IM client for OS X. Get AdiumX (AOL only) or Proteus (AOL, MSN, Yahoo, etc) for your IM needs.

 

[alex_ant]

Thanks sparkleytone, but according to top, AIM only averages about 3% CPU usage and approximately just as much memory usage, so that wouldn't explain it. I would switch, except no other AIM client that I'm aware of can do file transfer and send & receive images.

Alex

 

[sparkleytone]

it doesnt really matter what top is telling you, because it doesnt tell you how ridiculously slow AIM is to respond to the user, or how slow its interface is. Its a poorly programmed piece of software, and memory/CPU usage are not valid indicators of usability and performance.

 

[GeorgeC97]

thanks everyone

thanks everyone for your responses.

I will see this week if Apple releases a new Tibook, and maybe I may pick up the 'old' 550 Ti -- i'm thinking the prices should drop for that one.... otherwise I will definitely wait until July Macworld and see what's the deal with the ibook.

I would also like to know when there will be an Apple store in NYC !




btw - mcrain... thanks for the tips

I'm currently finishing up my 2nd year of medical school, i'm taking the boards (USMLE Step 1) in June - then I start my 3rd year rotations at NYU med. As for specialty? can't say that I'm sure yet.... how about your wife? what specialty did she picK? you are right, i just need it for H&P, and a whole bunch of programs that I can sync with my palm -- other than that, mS office, aol, IE, and definitely itunes.

 

[kishba]

i love it when people complain about older powerbooks... i used to do the same

then my parents took my access to the quicksilver away because i "spend to much time on it" and i'm back to my first mac, a powerbook g3 400

i know jef has an older ibook, but i'm also fairly certain he isn't running X on it... i'm coping with X on my laptop (w/192 meg ram)

it's not incredibly bad for Adium, Mail, and Omniweb... just annoying at times

i still love this machine and don't plan on ever getting rid of it... it's an old, but faithful machine... my only real complaint is the sound out is broken (i'm going to call applecare really soon)

 

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by sparkleytone
it doesnt really matter what top is telling you, because it doesnt tell you how ridiculously slow AIM is to respond to the user, or how slow its interface is. Its a poorly programmed piece of software, and memory/CPU usage are not valid indicators of usability and performance.

It's not just AIM that's seeming slow - it's the whole computer. Memory/CPU usage are valid indicators of how much AIM affects the rest of the system.

Alex

 

[sparkleytone]

i really hate to argue, but top is just not a very good indicator on system performance. there have been many time that top seems to indicate that my system should be on fire, and it was fine. there have been other times where everything was fine, and my system was dragging its butt on the concrete. i'll just say that from personal experience AIM lags my whole system. i put it on when i first got my iBook and couldnt stand it. i just KNEW that i wasn't wrong about my switching to Mac and began to try other chat clients. I have had no problems since. and I know that my g3 doesnt overpower your g4.

 

[matznentosh]

It's not just AIM that's seeming slow - it's the whole computer.

Listen, I think there is something amiss about perceptions of OS X speed. Some will say it is dead slow, some say faster than ever. I have a Pismo 400, and it runs great. Remember this is a G3, everybody complains it is so slow. The finder is only slightly slower than OS 9. Also, I never realized how inconvenient bombs were on my desktop (still OS 9) or my PC at work are till I started using OS X. Its plenty fast on a G3. I would suggest if you are having slowdowns, to erase the disk and reinstall the operating system. You may be surprised how usable it is, even on older processors.