amendment request for Marketplace rules

[liquidh2o]

Most of my time on Macrumors is spent on the Marketplace because it's a great resource to buy/sell mac(s) and accessories. I genuinely feel that I'm not only dealing with quality people, but buying/selling macs here is like keeping it in the family.

With that said, the biggest problem I see daily is thread crapping, which stems from people feeling the need to add input on a price if they don't think it's right or can find it cheaper elsewhere regadless if there's feeler/solicitation for advice or not.

Most people doing this are not genuinely interested in the product unless they can get it at a substantially below market value price, others just do it out of what they feel is civic duty.

Regardless of the reason, most of these "suggestions" turn into a debate on price, and degrades and detracts from the original post. This creates an unwanted headache for both the original poster as well as the mods.

Which leads me to...proposing an amendment to the rules that may help alleviate most of these problems. (I'd like this to be open for discussion as I'm always open to better suggestions and/or honest criticism).

Original rules quoted below followed by proposed changes (highlighted)

1. If you are interested in the sale/trade, you may ask questions or make an offer by posting or by contacting the seller privately through Private Message or e-mail (if enabled). If you have trouble contacting them or you don't hear back after more than a day, you can post in the thread to ask if they got your message (see Seller Rule 9 above).

2. Offer to buy or trade only if you are serious. If you don't like the price, make what you consider to be a reasonable offer or see Rule 3 below.

3. If you have no need for the items or don't like the price, items, payment method, or other terms, ignore the thread. Do not post negative remarks about the sale or seller based on their offer, or suggest to others that they buy other products or buy/trade at other sites. Do not try to derail somebody else's sale by posting in the thread. Let shoppers make their own decisions.

Exception 1: You may post comments about prices or comparable offers elsewhere for threads named "Feeler" or for which the thread-starter has explicitly solicited advice.

Exception 2: You may send Private Messages to other members involved in a transaction, including pricing suggestions to a seller, with the understanding that they are free to heed or ignore your advice and that you may not send repeated unsolicited e-mail to other members.

1. If you are interested in the sale/trade, you may ask questions by posting or make an offer by contacting the seller privately through Private Message or e-mail (if enabled) only, unless the original poster requests otherwise. If you have trouble contacting them or you don't hear back after more than a day, you can post in the thread to ask if they got your message (see Seller Rule 9 above).

2. Offer to buy or trade only if you are serious. If you don't like the price, make what you consider to be a reasonable offer in accordance with Rule 1 or see Rule 3 below.

3. If you have no need for the items or don't like the price, items, payment method, or other terms, ignore the thread. Do not post negative remarks about the sale or seller based on their offer, or suggest to others that they buy other products or buy/trade at other sites. Do not try to derail somebody else's sale by posting in the thread. Let shoppers make their own decisions.

Exception 1: You may post comments about prices or comparable offers elsewhere for threads named "Feeler" or for which the thread-starter has explicitly solicited advice.
Threads in which the original poster states "Or best offer (obo)" is not a solicitation for advice, and offers should still be made in accordance with Rule 1.

Exception 2: You may send Private Messages to other members involved in a transaction, including pricing suggestions to a seller, with the understanding that they are free to heed or ignore your advice and that you may not send repeated unsolicited e-mail to other members

 

[Koodauw]

I don't see how the 1st highlighted section has changed.
Anyways if you see thread craping just report it. It will get deleted.

 

[liquidh2o]

I don't see how the 1st highlighted section has changed.
Anyways if you see thread craping just report it. It will get deleted.

1st highlighted portion was changed to state that offers should be via PM or Email only unless original poster requests otherwise. Will re-word it so it comes across better.

I agree about reporting thread crapping, but there seems to be a gray area that tends to get abused a lot. I think it would be easier to prevent the problem instead of fixing it after the fact.

 

[Kwyjibo]

I'm sick of people who open up feelers and then get all pissed off when you tell them its not in the same ballpark that they originally imagined.

I think the marketplace is going downhill, half of the posts are "trades for this" or "highly reccommend this user" but its not always a simple reference its more to act like a bump. I liked the old system when the majority of the recommendations came from doing searches not the same people posting in each other's thread everytime they post a new list of their junk.

I also think its useless to Post "PM SENT" if you sent a PM anybody who's selling is going to be checking their PMS, they don't need constant posts that they're corresponding via PM's ... its a pet peeve to me and it seems redundant.

So thats what pisses me off abotu the marketplace but its not really all that major ...

 

[aquajet]

I think the marketplace is going downhill, half of the posts are "trades for this" or "highly reccommend this user" but its not always a simple reference its more to act like a bump.

I agree. And on a side note, the marketplace seems to be overwhelmingly dominated by a select group of members. Granted some of them contribute to MR, and that's great. But quite frankly, it's pretty tacky when certain users run a business here without paying their dues.

I'd like to see a fee system established in the Marketplace. Perhaps $2 per ad? It's a system that works great at another forum I frequent.

 

[Kwyjibo]

I'd like to see a fee system established in the Marketplace. Perhaps $2 per ad? It's a system that works great at another forum I frequent.

I think if you're infrequently sellinng things I disagree ... once in a while everybody just wants to get rid of something but to constantly be posting every little thing ... its filtering out those once in a while type people. I have a feeling if people paid they'd feel obliged to constantly bump their junk.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Thread crapping is a matter of who is viewing the posts.

I have no problem with myself or anyone posting what they feel is an honest price for the product. As I have no problem with reasonable responses as to why when that offer is rejected by the seller.

This back and forth is how I was able to get a good deal on an eMac awhile back. It is also how I found out that I could get a better deal on an EyeTV through Egato than through a poster (a point of reference that seller did find someone that would pay his price).

I am against negative responses by all parties about the details.

Maybe some changes are needed for the Marketplace. First would be allowing only those that are paying contributing members to post original threads in the Marketplace. And limit the number of the number of times each month that one can post items for sale, with a limit on the number of items in each new thread.

 

[macEfan]

Thread crapping is a matter of who is viewing the posts.

I have no problem with myself or anyone posting what they feel is an honest price for the product. As I have no problem with reasonable responses as to why when that offer is rejected by the seller.

This back and forth is how I was able to get a good deal on an eMac awhile back. It is also how I found out that I could get a better deal on an EyeTV through Egato than through a poster (a point of reference that seller did find someone that would pay his price).

I am against negative responses by all parties about the details.

Maybe some changes are needed for the Marketplace. First would be allowing only those that are paying contributing members to post original threads in the Marketplace. And limit the number of the number of times each month that one can post items for sale, with a limit on the number of items in each new thread.

I think that is a little harsh.... I mean if someone only sells something once or twice a year, they have to contribute? A limit like 5 for sales threads per month sounds even better to me. If they want to most more, then you can charge them, like say, $1 per thread. And if you bump too often you get banned for a week. Lastly, I think you sould make the minumim post count 250, so at least they would have to contribute some information into the forums before they can sell stuff.

 

[iGary]

Ditch the Marketplace. Problem solved.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

I think that is a little harsh.... I mean if someone only sells something once or twice a year, they have to contribute? A limit like 5 for sales threads per month sounds even better to me. If they want to most more, then you can charge them, like say, $1 per thread. And if you bump too often you get banned for a week. Lastly, I think you sould make the minumim post count 250, so at least they would have to contribute some information into the forums before they can sell stuff.

Not really when you consider what it costs to run a website like this.

If one wants to post something for sale here as it stands now, then don't grouse about the rules and the problems till you pay financial support. And even then like eBay, you don't like it, go else where.

Ditch the Marketplace. Problem solved.

As it stands now, the Marketplace should go. On the other-hand I have been able t deal with some great people and get some good deals. Th problem is that some want MR to be their private and free eBay.

 

[Blue Velvet]

I believe moves are underfoot to deal with some of the problems of the marketplace... let the mods decide on the best course of action.

The marketplace is a valuable resource and should remain, albeit it with a different set of policies.

 

[kalisphoenix]

I like the Marketplace. Everyone knows that almost everyone on the board is a mac fanatic, so there is a spirit of generosity that's missing from something like eBay.

I like it the way it is, even though I'm a bit of a cynical bastard who sorta likes thread-crapping. It's not a matter of "not letting the buyer make up his own mind." If the buyer cannot make up his own mind, then he shouldn't be engaging in a financial transaction at all. Maybe there should be mandatory thread-crapping

 

[robbieduncan]

Ditch the Marketplace. Problem solved.

Or spin it off onto it's own site (with it's own Moderators, I'm sure it must consume more that it's fair share of Mod time here). Arn seems to have almost every URL ever. I'm sure he could compete with eBay

 

[iGary]

Not really when you consider what it costs to run a website like this.

If one wants to post something for sale here as it stands now, then don't grouse about the rules and the problems till you pay financial support. And even then like eBay, you don't like it, go else where.



As it stands now, the Marketplace should go. On the other-hand I have been able t deal with some great people and get some good deals. Th problem is that some want MR to be their private and free eBay.

It has become nothing more than a place for greedy people to use as their own little Mac Reseller site.

I used to enjoy the marketplace, it's a miserable mess now. As with most things, the actions of a few trash it for everyone.

I agree with BV, though, let the site admins sort it out.

 

[7254278]

Me being an overly active marketplace user(more back then then now) think it should remain. It is a great resource, but some members who will be left nameless, ONLY use the marketplace, I dont have a problem with this but in the end this is a community not a mac oriented ebay. I like the limited number of threads per month idea but I dont like having to pay to use it. . . However thread crapping is getting out of hand and I hate the USELESS feedback messages. Im sure arn can come up with a good solution, the marketplace might suck now but a while ago it was a great place to pick up some games, cables, accesories and even a new mac!

 

[edesignuk]

If you see bumping or thread crapping report it, we are taking this seriously and those that cannot abide by the rules will simply be removed.

Hopefully if people begin to get the idea that they will be banished if they can't behave themselves, then we won't have to spend the amount of time we currently do policing the damn thing.

 

[thedude110]

Just to display my own ignorance about internet terminology ...

Am I correct in assuming that we're defining "thread crapping" as vaguely consipiratorial bumping (or simply OP bumping) that has nothing to do with actual consumer interest in a product that's being sold?

 

[edesignuk]

Thread crapping: for example, someone puts up a computer for $500 and someone comes and "craps" in their thread saying that it can be had for $400. That may or may not be the case, but there is not need to crap all over someone elses sale.

 

[macEfan]

or you could restrict even viewing the market place to people with under 500 posts.... that would keep most of the thread crapping, lowballs, and other stuff out.

 

[MacsomJRR]

GO BUNNY!

Does that count as a thread crap?

 

[Xtremehkr]

I'm a little disappointed about how suggestions, good or bad, are received.

New ideas are not necessarily detrimental to the system as it exists, unless you feel that things are perfect.

I don't think that things are perfect, which doesn't mean that things are bad either.

There are a contingent of people who seem to step forward and trash every suggestion made, regardless of the merits that may exist.

The site forum and feedback section exists for a reason. Just by its existence alone, it suggests that there are improvements that could be made.

I understand that there are some who are perfectly happy with things as they are now. Defending a site that you like is not wrong. But it does not mean that everyone feels the same way, and it does not mean that there could not be broader appeal with a few tweaks to make certain aspects work better.

If people are willing to make what they think is constructive criticism, they should at least be treated with enough respect to let them properly explain there point.

Otherwise there is no use for this section at all.

Sites like this benefit from broad appeal.

There is a reason why some of the people whom make suggestions get a little "pissy." They take the time to make a suggestion that they think is beneficial and are almost immediately jumped on by a contingent of people.

Let the forum serve its purpose and explore the suggestions that are being made. That is its purpose isn't it?

Ideas can at least be respectfully entertained.

 

[bousozoku]

GO BUNNY!

Does that count as a thread crap?

No, but it counts as spam and/or off-topic.

As far as Marketplace goes, I'd like to see it continue but I think that it would be a whole lot better if people would stop congratulating each other as good sellers/buyers. Of course, since that no longer helps their post counts, that may stop on its own.

Threadcrapping is another matter. Of course, better deals are out there and some people want more than the items are worth (xbox 360, PSP anyone?). Leave the thread alone and it will die peacefully.

Besides that, report the stupidity. If we moderators don't see it, we can't do anything about it.

 

[Blue Velvet]

There are a contingent of people who seem to step forward and trash every suggestion made, regardless of the merits that may exist...

...If people are willing to make what they think is constructive criticism, they should at least be treated with enough respect to let them properly explain there point.

Point well made although publicly putting forward a suggestion means that it has to stand or fall on its own merits — and part of that process means the proposal coming in for criticism from other forum members.

As far as I can see in these cases, very few people tend to diss the individual directly... however once in the public domain, their suggestion is fair game.

No idea put forward here should be immune from scrutiny and furthermore, these suggestions shouldn't be protected from comment while Arn or one of the other gods considers, puts forward or withholds their opinion.

 

[Kwyjibo]

I'm a little disappointed about how suggestions, good or bad, are received.

I think you're a bit short sighted about this topic. Is posting in this forum your only chance to make a suggestion? NO ITS NOT!

You have choice, you can email the gods, especially ARN, he loves this site, if you had a really good idea or improvement, I guarantee he'll consider it. Maybe he won't implement it right away but the guy is constantly looking to improve things around here as is the whole mod team.

When you post your idea to the public, you're giving it two opportunities, it can be tested amongst the public (what does everyone else think). This also might produce better ideas, as we can see with the new Rules in the marketplace things are improving and taking greater attention.

so the bottom line, if you want to make a private suggestion, fine, I think its more than encouraged ... if its public though it should be open up to public scrutiny, whether that be praise or total obliteration