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And so it begins! Amazon bans Macmillan over iPad

Check Google News or Amazon Kindle Discussions. There's no definitive word about what happened.
 
It has been widely known book publisher's have been unhappy with amazon forcing them to price best sellers lower and devaluing the value of their product.

Perhaps McMillan, seeing a more controllable future with Apple, aksed Amazon for the same conditions, and Amazon refused so they pulled their own product.

This is the situation Amazon is in. Amazon subsidizes a lot of best sellers to sell them at 9.95. The publishers don't like it, because then consumers believe their product is only worth that much. So they have never been happy. With Apple in the mix now, and allowing publishers to price their own works, even with Amazon subsidizing the difference between 9.95 and 12.95 for now, publisher still might balk at Amazon, because it is devaluing their product.

So either Amazon has to raise their prices and allow publishers more control on pricing and thus matching Apple, or they need to stick to their guns and risk losing a lot of content.

They are not in a good position. Apple has painted them into a corner they will not easily get out of...Amazon's ultimate leverage would be to threaten to not carry a publishers paper bound versions of their books, but I don't think either side wins in that case.
 
colmaclean said:
Where does the article mention that Amazon has banned Macmillan?
Click to expand...

Sounds like a ban to me, albeit maybe temporary. From the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/technology/30amazon.html

"Amazon.com has pulled books from Macmillan, one of the largest publishers in the United States, in a dispute over the pricing on e-books on the site.

The publisher’s books can be purchased only from third parties on Amazon.com.

A person in the industry with knowledge of the dispute, which has been brewing for a year, said Amazon was expressing its strong disagreement by temporarily removing Macmillan books."

miles01110 said:
It doesn't. As far as I can tell there is no "ban."
Click to expand...

"http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/te.../30amazon.html

"Amazon.com has pulled books from Macmillan, one of the largest publishers in the United States, in a dispute over the pricing on e-books on the site."

To ban means to "prohibit, forbid or bar." That certainly seems to be what is happening here.
 
Macmillan confirms titles pulled from Amazon...

due to a price conflict. Here is a quotation:

"Macmillan's US CEO, John Sargent just confirmed that Amazon pulled its inventory of Macmillan books in a powerful response to Macmillan's new pricing demands. Macmillan offered the new pricing on Thursday, just a day after Apple announced Macmillan as a major publishing partner in its new iBookstore..."

And here is the URL: http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/31/amazon-pulled-macmillan-titles-due-to-price-conflict-confirme/

Here's what I think is happening. Apple wants to compete, among other places, in the book reader space. The presentation made that clear, even showing the Kindle and casting it as a good first effort. So he's offering the publishers better (higher) pricing. MacMillan then went to Amazon, said "here's our new pricing," and Amazon pulled the plug in an effort to get them to relent. I think it's noble (on behalf of the consumer, at least--maybe not so much for publishers and authors) of Amazon to insist on low pricing, but the iPad may very well change the game in that respect. How many publishers can Amazon say "no" to on pricing once Apple is in the e-reader game?
 
I've never heard of a company overcutting someone on price. The consumer will decide. What Amazon did is just kill Macmillan revenue for the next 60 days. I think Amazon may win this one. Macmillan will not remove itself from the number one book store just to get a better price on a niche device.
 
bobsentell said:
I think Amazon may win this one. Macmillan will not remove itself from the number one book store just to get a better price on a niche device.
Click to expand...

We'll see, and I agree that the concept is peculiar, but one thing--I don't think the iPad is going to be a niche device. Or, I'll put it this way--the Kindle has sold about 2,000,000 units. The iPad will easily sell 5x that many. E-readers in general are currently niche, but the iPad will easily compete.
 
I'm actually ok with the $15 dollar price point for new releases on books because a new hardcover cost about 30 (usually) so your getting half off if your going the E-route. I do have a couple of things to say though.

-Paper back releases better damn well be under 7.99 other-wise it would be a ripoff

- Apple really needs to work out a deal with publisher where physical books come with digital download codes like they often do with blu-rays. It would make me actually want to buy ebooks because as of now I won't buy them if i can't have a physical copy.
 
bobsentell said:
I've never heard of a company overcutting someone on price. The consumer will decide. What Amazon did is just kill Macmillan revenue for the next 60 days. I think Amazon may win this one. Macmillan will not remove itself from the number one book store just to get a better price on a niche device.
Click to expand...

By this argument the Kindle is also a niche device. It amazes me that after seeing the iPad people think this. Macmillan's move alone disproves this niche device nonsense.

That said, step back and look hat Apple has done for online music and video sales. Anyone who doesn't think Apple can (and will) do the same thing for ebooks has been living under a rock. Macmillan will be just the first who are wanting to rescale their pricing. Amazon has been to ebooks what Apple is to music. The problem is that Apple has a lot more consumer pull with it's products than Amazon does. Now that they are throwing their hat in the ring Amazon is going to have to be on the defensive. I don't think they did that well with Macmillan.
 
Last night on the radio news, it was reported that Amazon would be pulling any content that is offered through the Apple book store.

It was also mentioned on Coast to Coast AM.
 
bobsentell said:
I've never heard of a company overcutting someone on price. The consumer will decide. What Amazon did is just kill Macmillan revenue for the next 60 days. I think Amazon may win this one. Macmillan will not remove itself from the number one book store just to get a better price on the early stages of a digital empire.
Click to expand...

FYP
 
this is what has been missed about the recent announcement of the iPad: the kindle is DOA.

notice that EVERY site that talks about iPad is chocked full of kindle ads? amazon doesn't want anyone to forget they exist, which people will do once they get to actually hold an iPad and see how much better it is than the kindle and how much more they can do with it.

amazon's response is to punish their customers by reducing the number of books they can choose from????

1/27/10 Kindle RIP
 
SpaceKitty said:
Last night on the radio news, it was reported that Amazon would be pulling any content that is offered through the Apple book store.
Click to expand...

That simply isn't true. They pulled a single publisher over a pricing conflict. Why would Amazon remove any content that is also on the iPad? That makes no sense.
 
abijnk said:
By this argument the Kindle is also a niche device. It amazes me that after seeing the iPad people think this. Macmillan's move alone disproves this niche device nonsense.

That said, step back and look hat Apple has done for online music and video sales. Anyone who doesn't think Apple can (and will) do the same thing for ebooks has been living under a rock. Macmillan will be just the first who are wanting to rescale their pricing. Amazon has been to ebooks what Apple is to music. The problem is that Apple has a lot more consumer pull with it's products than Amazon does. Now that they are throwing their hat in the ring Amazon is going to have to be on the defensive. I don't think they did that well with Macmillan.
Click to expand...

Yep, the e-book market is a bit niche at the moment, but to paraphrase abijnk look what Apple did to mp3 players! I had an mp3 player before the iPod came out, but not many of my friends had one. Then came the iPod, it redefined the market and now pretty much everyone I know has some form of iPod, even my dad (63) has an iPod shuffle!

Why did this happen to music? Because everyone has a music collection of some sort and Apple made it fun and easy to listen to music.

The big question is will Apple do the same to the printed material market? Do they have a fun and easy platform for reading e-books, etc? I believe they do, but only time will tell if people agree with me. :)
 
amazon can't do this with to many publishers... because the kindle will loose its worth. What sense makes a reading device if you only read half the content avaible?

It will come to the point where you can read more books on the iPad then on the Kindle. END of game for Amazon then.
 
Bah, this highlights several large problems, imo. First DRM on everything. They got the DRM out of music, why is it still on everything else? People who are paying $300-800 dollars (various eReaders, iPad, etc) for a device which they want to use to read books on shouldn't be subject to this sort of whim. Amazon and a publisher can't get along and *poof* Kindle readers can't buy those books anymore. I don't care if Amazon doesn't want to sell their titles anymore, but you should have the option to go buy the book elsewhere and use it on your eReader. This goes for Apple and the iBook store as well. If they are using DRM (sure they will be) I won't be buying from them. (And if I cant sync eBooks from other sources onto the device I won't use it as an eBook ready, and it will lower my likelihood of buying one).

The second big issue I see here is the fragmenting of the publishing market. If we end up with half of the publishers o in the Kindle store and half of them on the iBook store, we all lose. No good can come of this.

Lastly is the failure of old media to adapt to the digital world. Again. A new hardcover book runs $25-30 cove price. Most are discounted to $15-20 from their release day up through the <$10 paperback edition. $10 for an eBook copy seems pretty reasonable when you figure there's no printing cost, no shipping from printer to seller, and the consumer loses the ability to resell the book (so a person who would have bought a used copy and netted the publisher $0 would end up with a $10, all profit digital copy). Personally, I think both Macmillan and Amazon are stupid. Macmillian for thinking they should charge more than $10 and Amazon for trying to stop them - I believe that the market would sort the pricing out eventually (of course the DRM factor would likely push prices about their natural floor).

Really hoping that I can just drop a text, PDF, RTF, or HTML file into iTunes and either convert or just sync it to the iPad for use in iBooks... this would actually really increase the amount I get to read. Unfortunately, the fact that it doesn't appear to be a built in feature, but rather an app makes me feel like I won't be able to do this.
 
backinmac said:
Yep, the e-book market is a bit niche at the moment, but to paraphrase abijnk look what Apple did to mp3 players! I had an mp3 player before the iPod came out, but not many of my friends had one. Then came the iPod, it redefined the market and now pretty much everyone I know has some form of iPod, even my dad (63) has an iPod shuffle!

Why did this happen to music? Because everyone has a music collection of some sort and Apple made it fun and easy to listen to music.

The big question is will Apple do the same to the printed material market? Do they have a fun and easy platform for reading e-books, etc? I believe they do, but only time will tell if people agree with me. :)
Click to expand...

Amazon already did.
 
abijnk said:
By this argument the Kindle is also a niche device. It amazes me that after seeing the iPad people think this. Macmillan's move alone disproves this niche device nonsense.

That said, step back and look hat Apple has done for online music and video sales. Anyone who doesn't think Apple can (and will) do the same thing for ebooks has been living under a rock. Macmillan will be just the first who are wanting to rescale their pricing. Amazon has been to ebooks what Apple is to music. The problem is that Apple has a lot more consumer pull with it's products than Amazon does. Now that they are throwing their hat in the ring Amazon is going to have to be on the defensive. I don't think they did that well with Macmillan.
Click to expand...

The difference was iTunes was keeping prices low, not raising them. And by Niche device I meant that while Apple may end up selling millions of these iPads, it will take a while before a large enough segment of the population has them to warrant removal from Amazon. I just think in the end the books will be put back on Amazon. If anything, Amazon could say that because they are selling Black and White versions only, they should be priced lower.
 
Sounds like Amazon is working for lower ebook prices, which I support. I seem to remember Apple fighting for this awhile back in the mp3 market, while Amazon was charging more for select songs.
 
cube said:
Amazon already did.
Click to expand...

The thing is Amazon has not made much of an impact with the Kindle. To use my mp3 analogy; Kindle is a bit like my old Creative Muvo. The Muvo was one of the first mp3 players and Creative made some fairly good, early mp3 players, but they didn't capture peoples attention, they just didn't have the design 'wow factor'.

Apple has a history of design 'wow factors', and the iPad looks like it is following that trend, er, maybe.:confused:
 
SpaceKitty said:
Last night on the radio news, it was reported that Amazon would be pulling any content that is offered through the Apple book store.

It was also mentioned on Coast to Coast AM.
Click to expand...

Wow, seriously? They're going to take themselves out of the book business.
 
backinmac said:
The thing is Amazon has not made much of an impact with the Kindle. To use my mp3 analogy; Kindle is a bit like my old Creative Muvo. The Muvo was one of the first mp3 players and Creative made some fairly good, early mp3 players, but they didn't capture peoples attention, they just didn't have the design 'wow factor'.
Click to expand...

What, no impact? It was one of the hottest gifts these last holidays.
 
bobsentell said:
The difference was iTunes was keeping prices low, not raising them. And by Niche device I meant that while Apple may end up selling millions of these iPads, it will take a while before a large enough segment of the population has them to warrant removal from Amazon. I just think in the end the books will be put back on Amazon. If anything, Amazon could say that because they are selling Black and White versions only, they should be priced lower.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that the books will be back on Amazon at some point, but my point was that Amazon is no longer a big fish in a little pond. They now have another fish to compete with and pulling an entire publishers work is not the way to do it.
 
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