Another example of the Joke we call the UN

[Backtothemac]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/02/19/rwanda.genocide.reut/index.html

Man, in the US if you kill 10 people, you get death. But kill 800,000 in 100 days, and conspire with those that do it, and be a part of it, and do nothing to stop it.

10 and 25 years. That is all they got! If that is the moral of the world, then I would say lets be isolationalist, and stay out of the UN.

10 and 25 years. Un friggin real!

 

[Taft]

I'm not saying this is right, but have you ever watched Law and Order, The Practice, or any other lawyer TV show? This kind of thing is commonplace in our legal system. Even for heinous crimes, the convictions and sentencing depend on the quality of the defense's case vs the prosecution's case, the amount of evidence, etc., etc.

Unless you think our legal system is in shambles as well, this doesn't indicate a massive failing on the part of the UN. Rather it indicates the realities and trade offs of a properly run legal system. I mean the 78 year old minister will likely be dead before reaching the end of his term.

Unless you want to turn this into a discussion about the death penalty. I don't think you want that...

Taft

 

[idkew]

quite amazing.

i wonder if they'll drop my traffic tickets.

 

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by Taft
I'm not saying this is right, but have you ever watched Law and Order, The Practice, or any other lawyer TV show? This kind of thing is commonplace in our legal system. Even for heinous crimes, the convictions and sentencing depend on the quality of the defense's case vs the prosecution's case, the amount of evidence, etc., etc.

Unless you think our legal system is in shambles as well, this doesn't indicate a massive failing on the part of the UN. Rather it indicates the realities and trade offs of a properly run legal system. I mean the 78 year old minister will likely be dead before reaching the end of his term.

Unless you want to turn this into a discussion about the death penalty. I don't think you want that...

Taft

Why not. Remember, I am pro death penalty, and I have a family member sitting on death row. Don't forget, that I stick to my morals even when they actually hurt me.

 

[e-coli]

It's no different than here in America. Guilty until proven wealthy.

And in Germany, the guy who was just convicted of 3,000 counts of accessory to murder (WTC attack) only got 15 years.

You can't blame the UN.

 

[e-coli]

...oops. wrong button.

 

[conceptdev]

The Rawandan genocide made the UN a joke long before this current issue about Iraq.

This all took place while there was a UN peacekeeping contigent in Kigalie - it was lead by a man called Brigadier General Romeo Dallaire The General had advance information relating to the comming genocide and was denied action by the UN. His daily situation reports were ignored by the UN and the US wanted no part of a new resolution under article 6 I believe - peace making allowing the force to take action and to send the force adequate protection. Gen. Dallaire broke ranks with UN and did what he could to prevent the what was the fastest and most brutal genocide of the 20th century.

Eventually a resolution to send more troops was past, but only because of the flood of television images of fleeing Hutu refugees leeving after having commited the Genocide!

The world lost real faith in the UN in Rwanda,
theres a reason why I stopped studying international relations and law. There are more reasons like Srebrenica, The Democratic Republic of Congo.....

 

[Taft]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Why not. Remember, I am pro death penalty, and I have a family member sitting on death row. Don't forget, that I stick to my morals even when they actually hurt me.

I know, it just that those discussion get real ugly, real quick. And when a discussion gets sidetracked by the death penalty, abortion, religion, dems vs. reps, etc. there ain't no savin' it.

Taft

 

[drastik]

The problem with discouraging dealmaking in the judical system is that it makes getting information from those arrested next to impossible. People don't just get deals, the get them in exchange for something, usually information about tohers involved in the crimes.

Were we to say, this is you punishment, and thats it, why would a drug dealer rat on his supplier, or a terroist on his finicial backers.

Police forces are already complaining about this in regaurds to Th Attorney General overturning decisions to go for life isttead of the death penalty. It takes away the incentive for cooperation. You can't force cooperation by threatening to kil them if they no you are going to kill them anyway.

 

[Taft]

Originally posted by drastik
...

I'm not sure if anyone's commented on your 'tar yet. If not, let me be the first to say it friggin' rocks.

It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain.

Taft

 

[3rdpath]

Re: Another example of the Joke we call the UN

Originally posted by Backtothemac
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/02/19/rwanda.genocide.reut/index.html

Man, in the US if you kill 10 people, you get death. But kill 800,000 in 100 days, and conspire with those that do it, and be a part of it, and do nothing to stop it.

10 and 25 years. That is all they got! If that is the moral of the world, then I would say lets be isolationalist, and stay out of the UN.

10 and 25 years. Un friggin real!

i'm certainly horrified by these crimes but i'm not sure i follow your logic.

it seems to me these people were sentenced by a court that recognises the varying degrees of participation...just like in the u.s.

in the u.s., an accomplice to a murder usually doesn't get the same sentence as someone who pulls the trigger.

are you saying our court system and the u.n.'s are both unfair?

and do we sentence people here as if they participated in every crime of a certain nature? well, no...

imho, i don't think there's sufficient reason to use this trial as a reason to vent your displeasure with the u.n.

 

[drastik]

Originally posted by Taft
I'm not sure if anyone's commented on your 'tar yet. If not, let me be the first to say it friggin' rocks.

It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain.

Taft

Thanks...

I'm going to infect you with the back of my hand (pause) The BACK of THE HAND!

 

[mcrain]

Ok, I rarely get upset when I peruse my favorite web site, but this time you've crossed my line.

1. You, for the most part, don't understand the legal system.
2. TV legal shows are pathetic.
3. Jurisdiction is a very important word you should all look up.
4. The difference between a nation killing a million people and one person killing one other person is both jurisdiction and national autonomy.

I won't tell you your business (tech, whatever) if you don't tell me mine.

M

 

[mikulashek]

Let's not be so quick to judge others court systems, all court systems do not work or are based on the U.S.'s, and we ourselve have plenty of flaws.

 

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by mcrain
Ok, I rarely get upset when I peruse my favorite web site, but this time you've crossed my line.

1. You, for the most part, don't understand the legal system.
2. TV legal shows are pathetic.
3. Jurisdiction is a very important word you should all look up.
4. The difference between a nation killing a million people and one person killing one other person is both jurisdiction and national autonomy.

I won't tell you your business (tech, whatever) if you don't tell me mine.

M

I hope that I did not get you upset

 

[barkmonster]

I think it would be wrong to sentence him to death, the guilt he MUST feel deep inside his completely twisted mind must already make him dead on the inside. Ending his suffering is the wrong thing to do. It would almost be a mercy killing. He deserves to live with it, he's going to die of old age before he begins to rot in jail.

He'll only pay if he does't die and carries on suffering for the crimes every moment he's still drawing breath. Maybe they could have the relatives of his victims kick him swiftly in the family jewels every hour of every day so he never get's any sleep and goes insane but maybe that's just going too far.

 

[Taft]

Originally posted by mcrain

2. TV legal shows are pathetic.

OK, they are. But nonetheless, they do display that there are many mitagating factors that go into prosecuting and sentencing a criminal.

My point was that even in our legal system, its never as simple as "he's a bad guy and commited crime X so he gets sentence Y." At the very least, a show like Law and Order shows you that.

Taft