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Any chance Apple will go totally fanless for the new Macs?

F

farmerabc

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 20, 2019
43
52
I've heard a few times a rumor that the new iMac will be like "a big iPad Pro on a stick", and it got me thinking. What if they decide that the passively-cooled performance of the Apple-Silicon chips is so good that NONE of their new computers need fans at all?

IMHO it would be a very Apple thing to do.
 
I think the new version of the standard MacBook might be fanless but we have to wait and see. Even if it had a fan it would be quieter than one cooling an Intel chip
 
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Whichever one of the Air of Macbook that makes this transition I'd expect no fan in it.
 
A fabless laptop using the same chip as an iPad Pro could definitely be an interesting entry level Mac.
 
I doubt it is as easy to pull off as some expect but it would be nice to see one but how much are you willing to give up?
 
Shivetya said:
I doubt it is as easy to pull off as some expect but it would be nice to see one but how much are you willing to give up?
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What we are talking about is using an iPad Pro chip in a MacBook or MacBook Air chassis. This is a no-brainer really — iPad Pro running on two year old Apple technology is already faster than a 13" Ice Lake MBA, has comparable battery life and can be cooled passively in a much more compact iPad chassis. A laptop form factor has a significantly larger cooling surface, can fit a larger battery and has a display in a separate assembly, further improving it's cooling capability.
 
I assumed it was pretty much a given that there will be a low end MacBook/MacBook Air that is fanless.

My post is more wondering whether Apple might decide to also go fanless for the high end MacBook Pro and even the iMac/Mac Mini.
 
farmerabc said:
My post is more wondering whether Apple might decide to also go fanless for the high end MacBook Pro and even the iMac/Mac Mini.
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I don’t see this as a possibility if these machines are to retain competitive performance
 
I can see Apple making fanless versions of low-end Minis and iMacs, but I don't really think that a fanless MBP is a possibility. As much as I admire Apple's engineering prowess, I don't see them making a chip that would match a 45w i9 in performance in a sub-10w TDP. Never mind making that performance sustainable which is super important for pretty much anything that one would buy a 16" laptop for.
 
farmerabc said:
I assumed it was pretty much a given that there will be a low end MacBook/MacBook Air that is fanless.

My post is more wondering whether Apple might decide to also go fanless for the high end MacBook Pro and even the iMac/Mac Mini.
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Probably eventually it would be possible considering how much sustained performance Apple squeezes out of the iPad chips. I think I'm right in saying (and someone please correct me if I have the wrong end of the stick here?) Apple's rated clock speeds are the maximum sustainable in the iPads (i.e. the A12Z can run up to 2.5GHz pretty much indefinitely, that's it's top sustained clock and it doesn't go over it) unlike Intel who quote their base clock speed and then turbo above it for heavy loads (which is when active cooing comes into play). But I think Apple will target more power over fanless running on their performance focused machines.
 
Falhófnir said:
I think I'm right in saying (and someone please correct me if I have the wrong end of the stick here?) Apple's rated clock speeds are the maximum sustainable in the iPads (i.e. the A12Z can run up to 2.5GHz pretty much indefinitely, that's it's top sustained clock and it doesn't go over it) unlike Intel who quote their base clock speed and then turbo above it for heavy loads (which is when active cooing comes into play).
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You are entirely correct. I think this is one if the most interesting differences between Intel and Apple chips.

Intel introduces turbo boost as a way to have both high performance and good energy efficiency. By scaling clock on demands they can adapt to many different scenarios. The range of turbo boost in current Intel chips can be quite ridiculous, from under 2ghz for sustained multi-core scenarios (to hit the advertised 15W limit) to up to 5ghz for burst workloads, on the same chip. The overall behavior of the CPUs is unintuitive to most users, e.g. a 15W CPU can draw much more power for short periods of time. Basically, turbo boost as we have it now renders TDP almost meaningless.

Apple on the other hand has a much lower turbo boost range, I think it’s something like 2.5-2.7 for the A13. But that also seems to be the upper limit for the CPU, as the power consumption spikes like crazy afterwards. To put it differently, Intel architecture has its peak efficiency clock and it’s peak performance clock fairly far from each other, while in Apple designs they are very close together. In practical terms, what this means that if Apple manages to move the performance just a bit higher with the new A14, their peak efficiency will likely match Intel’s peak performance.
 
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Fanless designs in anything but their MacBook (I think MacBook Air will be killed off) or MacMini would be Apple shooting themselves in the foot. Even though Arm is a different type of chip it can’t exponentially grow and compete with Intel without a fan. We probably only have 4-5 years left on even the iPad Pro being fanless.
 
I can seem them going fan less in the super thin lower end MacBooks. Everything else will have a fan.
 
Macbooks, obivously going to be fanless. We already have fanless ultrabooks with intel chips, so this is easy.
I bet entry level iMac and Mac mini will also be fanless. The iPad Pro is fanless and it can already achieve fairly good sustained performance. With proper heatsinks, fanless desktops are possible.
 
thenewperson said:
What?
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You aren’t going to see fanless designs on iPad Pro forever if you also want the speed to improve year over year... I give it about 5 years before the iPad Pro would need some active cooling. If you look at the Nintendo Switch for example, it needs active cooling.
 
Jyby said:
You aren’t going to see fanless designs on iPad Pro forever if you also want the speed to improve year over year... I give it about 5 years before the iPad Pro would need some active cooling. If you look at the Nintendo Switch for example, it needs active cooling.
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No going to happen. Apple has increased performance of the iPad every year without the need for fans.

not sure what the switch has to do with the iPad. iPad handily outperforms the switch by multiple times without needing a fans.
 
thunng8 said:
No going to happen. Apple has increased performance of the iPad every year without the need for fans.

not sure what the switch has to do with the iPad. iPad handily outperforms the switch by multiple times without needing a fans.
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I was talking about iPad Pro... and Yeah iPad Pro is pretty close to the switch if not more powerful. The other issue which is a fact is the iPad speed cant increase forever without needing a fan that’s a fact physics. And I point to the switch because the switch has active cooling fan.
 
My 2017 Macbook Retina 12" i5 is fanless so if they do that type of engineering on an Intel chip; the AS Mac is going to so much more efficient based on a RISC design, it will most likely be able to run fanless.
 
My opinion is on the macbooks possibly. Not not on the iMacs or MBP's.
I also feel the MBA line will be canabalised by the Macbooks. Basically something as powerful as a Macbook but as thin as a MBA.
 
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