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May 30, 2023
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Assume next year a M3 will be released with a 17" display at the same 281 ppi as all Macs.

Would you be inclined to get it at $1499?

The $1499 base model's M chip, RAM and SSD would be the same as the future base 13" & 15" Price diff of the 13" & 15" is $200.

17" is a tad more popular than a 12"... this is why I bring it up.

A 3nm M3 chip will have more raw performance than any/all Intel Macs.

The LG gram, that competes in the same space as the MBA has a 14", 15", 16" & 17" screen sizes.
 
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The LG Gram 17 is 1.35kg (iGPU) and 1.45kg (dGPU) respectively.

M2 MBA 13 and 15 are 1.24kg and 1.51kg respectively.

A MBA 17 is likely 1.8kg or heavier and that's kinda heavy. But for a 17-inch laptop is still kinda lightweight, relatively speaking.

The LG Gram 17 at 1.35kg feels unreal when held in hand. The cardboard box that it ships in feels heavier. That's a 17-inch that I don't mind carrying around.
 
I'd have to have a full sized keyboard to go larger. The one thing missing from the 15'' Air that I could really use is a number pad. I cope in various ways when working on my laptop, and I'm not that bad at keying numbers into Excel via the top row but I am definitely faster with a number pad and would appreciate having one on my laptop.
 
I'd like to see a 17" (or even 18") Mac Laptop option, but I think it would better suit being a MacBook Ultra, using the extra space/ mass to bring the Mx Ultra chip over to the notebook form factor. Whether this would realistically have an economically viable market is questionable, but if it did, it would probably be positioned like that. It's going to be a big, heavy machine no matter how much they try to slim it down, so I think 15" is better for a larger Air option. Additionally, paying even more money for a bulkier/ heavier machine starts to move well outside the sweet spot the 15" occupies, and starts to become a significantly harder sell. And I say this as someone who will only consider 15" machines and up.
 
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I'd have to have a full sized keyboard to go larger. The one thing missing from the 15'' Air that I could really use is a number pad. I cope in various ways when working on my laptop, and I'm not that bad at keying numbers into Excel via the top row but I am definitely faster with a number pad and would appreciate having one on my laptop.
I bought external USB Number Pads for our laptops without them. Have you tried any USB-C ones?
 
I'd like to see a 17" (or even 18") Mac Laptop option, but I think it would better suit being a MacBook Ultra, using the extra space/ mass to bring the Mx Ultra chip over to the notebook form factor. Whether this would realistically have an economically viable market is questionable, but if it did, it would probably be positioned like that.

Speaking of an Ultra. MBP 17"/18" Ultra would sell for $5.5k for binned & $6.5k non-binned.

Would that be a fair price range?
 
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Speaking of an Ultra. MBP 17"/18" Ultra would sell for $5.5k for binned & $6.5k non-binned.

Would that be a fair price range?
I'd say that's quite possibly why it doesn't already exist! :p It's a shame as I do like larger screened laptops, and a 17" option as you proposed, or an 18" Pro/ Ultra machine would be incredible to use, but the way Apple prices their computers I think would make it quite difficult for these models to compete. So to answer your original question, I may well be a taker, but I'm not sure there's enough of a market that Apple would ever consider making it.
 
I'd say that's quite possibly why it doesn't already exist! :p It's a shame as I do like larger screened laptops, and a 17" option as you proposed, or an 18" Pro/ Ultra machine would be incredible to use, but the way Apple prices their computers I think would make it quite difficult for these models to compete. So to answer your original question, I may well be a taker, but I'm not sure there's enough of a market that Apple would ever consider making it.

Likely they do not have enough Ultra chips to supply the demand for one. Same reason why Mac Pro was delayed to the M2 Ultra.

I was looking at the Mac Studio Ultra's CPU max power consumption and it is well under the 240W of USB PD.

Even if the battery life is 0.5x the "Up to 22 hours Apple TV app movie playback" & "Up to 15 hours wireless web" of the MBP 16" M2 Max it will still be better than any AMD Ryzen 9 7945HX or Intel Core i9-13980HX.

It would likely be 2.0x the weight and thickness.

I expect the SKU be Ultra-only though.
 
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Personally, not interested, but then again I don't even want a 15" laptop. 13" is my sweet spot.
 
The LG Gram 17 is 1.35kg (iGPU) and 1.45kg (dGPU) respectively.

M2 MBA 13 and 15 are 1.24kg and 1.51kg respectively.

A MBA 17 is likely 1.8kg or heavier and that's kinda heavy. But for a 17-inch laptop is still kinda lightweight, relatively speaking.

The LG Gram 17 at 1.35kg feels unreal when held in hand. The cardboard box that it ships in feels heavier. That's a 17-inch that I don't mind carrying around.
The old 17” MacBook Pro was 3kg. I really enjoyed it as a laptop. I’d love a 17” Air.
 
Vpro! Vpro! Vpro! All threads dreaming of bigger screen everything and yet weight comes with the expansion. Someone wants an 18" too. Someone else wants a 20". Get that keypad on the keyboard. Put in that bigger battery to make it all work for many hours. Etc.

In other threads, iMac 27" revival. iMac 29". iMac 30". iMac 32"

In other threads, bigger iPad. Apple fold phone. Bigger phone.

All of these "bigger" wants can be realized by virtualizing those screens. Then we can have any size screen available to us anywhere we go/are.

I share OPs desire for a bigger MB. When I go from 40" UW desktop to 16" MB when on the road, it feels cramped and productivity plunges. Yes, we could pack multiple screens in the (then much heavier) laptop bag. Yes, another inch or two would be slightly more screen RE.

But I look at Vpro and I see a new kind of laptop with any size screen or screens... all fitting in a laptop bag... without the weight of trying to approximate the same with physical screens. Like opening a laptop to get to work, slip on the goggles to get to work. Like closing the laptop when done with with work, slip off the goggles when done with work.

My vision in support of this want would be a modernized "throwback"... an accessory to Vpro that is basically Apples cut at a Commodore 64 or Amiga 500 (whole computer under keyboard in one case). We practically have this now if we can think in terms of separating perhaps the MBair computer from the lid. Some people are acquiring MBs with broken screens/lids, detaching computer from damaged part and then using the keyboard + computer "half" as a dedicated computer hooked to regular monitors.

Imagine the same in the laptop bag with Vpro delivering ANY size monitor(s). If Apple is willing, it would also deliver any size iPad and any size iPhone too.

If not the Commodore 64-type "dongle", the demo for Vpro implied using Magic Keyboard + trackpad in this way... perhaps leaning on the M2-based computer being in Vpro. That could be even better in terms of portability (minimizing the size & weight of what is in the laptop bag)... through I suspect the Commodore 64-type device would extend battery life too and offer options for Mx-PRO, Mx-MAX power (Vpro simply being an airplay-like receiver in this scenario). The demo showed that a Mac screen could definitely be tossed to Vpro, so this ability is already core functionality.

There is no stretch of imagination here... no sci-fi leap required. All core functions were already in the Vpro demo. The only new creation would be the Commodore 64-type Mac but even that could simply be a slightly modified MBair keyboard half. Use it with Vpro when mobile and then easily dock it or plug it into a regular desktop monitor when home/office.

The big problem with the ongoing, growing want of "bigger screens" in everything is that that pretty much means more weight. Unless, the form factor is altered to have overhang or folding screens, when it comes to laptops, the bottom "half" has to be as big as the top "half." So as we wish for more laptop screen RE, we are also- perhaps not- wishing for more weight and a bigger overall package. It seems to me, the best way to scratch this increasingly-common itch is to virtualize the screen and then minimize the bottom "half."

An inch or 3 more in a laptop wouldn't add much screen RE at all. But Vpro would allow the keyboard "half" to shrink towards minimum keyboard size (and weight) while allowing us to work on ANY size screen or screens. Look at the thinness of MBair now. Check its weight WITH lid. Imagine both without lid... and that plus Vpro in a new laptop bag instead. That seems VERY appealing to me and is hopefully my next "laptop" with a 16" screen, 17", 18", 20", 24", 30", 40", ultra-wide, multiple screens, etc... all weighing the same and taking up the same amount of space in the bag.

Too many of "us" seem to have a perception that once Vpro is put on, it becomes permanently affixed to our skulls. However, I see it as a new kind of laptop form factor... bringing desktop-sized screens to a relatively small, portable package... to use when we would otherwise use a mobile computer and put away when done. If we can get over the cost, it seems the easiest path to the 17" MB, 18", 20", 27" iMac, foldable iPhone, etc.
 
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My vision in support of this want would be a modernized "throwback"... an accessory to Vpro that is basically Apples cut at a Commodore 64 or Amiga 500 (whole computer under keyboard in one case). We practically have this now if we can think in terms of separating perhaps the MBair computer from the lid. Some people are acquiring MBs with broken screens/lids, detaching computer from damaged part and then using the keyboard + computer "half" as a dedicated computer hooked to regular monitors.

Apple would never market an headless Macbook, that would be far too niche.
I've used an headless MBP before (after incident), it's a nice way to recycle your computer but there is no way that gets sold as a retail product.

But they could go the other way around and market a Vision "Air"/"Lite", which would be a Vision headset without M2 CPU and without battery.
It would get power and SoC from the attached Mac, and also be lighter and cheaper.
Would drop $2k for it in an heartbeat only for the screen extension feature if I could get 4k per eye.
There are far cheaper headsets for that purpose right now (Nreal Air is the first coming to mind) but the quality is not as good.
I'm also carrying dual 16" USB-C monitors in my backpack and I can't wait for them to be surpassed by a proper VR.
I'm sure it will come sooner or later. They would have too much trouble making them in high volumes if they released it right now.
 
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My vision in support of this want would be a modernized "throwback"... an accessory to Vpro that is basically Apples cut at a Commodore 64 or Amiga 500 (whole computer under keyboard in one case). We practically have this now if we can think in terms of separating perhaps the MBair computer from the lid. Some people are acquiring MBs with broken screens/lids, detaching computer from damaged part and then using the keyboard + computer "half" as a dedicated computer hooked to regular monitors.
I find your post rather interesting, and could be a good guess as to Apple's longer-term plans (or at least hopes). As you say, there's nothing in your post that is dreaming up tech, it was all in the demo really.

I think the key question here is going to be about how realistic is it to wear the Vision Pro for prolonged periods. I see three main obstacles: battery life (or access to wired power), weight/comfort of the device itself - and nausea.

The nausea aspect hasn't been discussed much. I've tried the Oculus (a few years ago - it was a Rift, pre-Meta) and the PS5 VR. Most things were great and didn't affect me - the Horizon game on the PS5 was breathtaking in places. But for both of them I had definite nausea-inducing moments.

However, I think that Apple has made some interesting steps to counter this. For a start they have focused mainly on productivity or fairly static activities such as watching films or FaceTiming - the 3D world is not spinning around you.

Basically I'm very curious about the Vision Pro. Will the resolution be good enough to truly be used as an external monitor(s)?

The MBA is not that heavy, even with a screen, so you'd still be able to use it the way you described (with a V-Pro as a larger screen).

I do think that the V-Pro is a very "personal" device, although again Apple has tried to break down this barrier a bit with the visible eyes (which even in the demos looked a bit creepy) and fading in the real world. But fundamentally, what you are seeing and hearing is just for you. And you'd hardly buy one for the whole family at the price Apple has set! Can't wait to try one though...
 
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Assume next year a M3 will be released with a 17" display at the same 281 ppi as all Macs.

Would you be inclined to get it at $1499?

The $1499 base model's M chip, RAM and SSD would be the same as the future base 13" & 15" Price diff of the 13" & 15" is $200.

17" is a tad more popular than a 12"... this is why I bring it up.

A 3nm M3 chip will have more raw performance than any/all Intel Macs.

The LG gram, that competes in the same space as the MBA has a 14", 15", 16" & 17" screen sizes.
1) M3 performance is moot. MBAs are Apple's lower end laptops so performance is already strong with just the lower end of available M2 performance. M3 performance improvements will matter for MBPs and Studios but not so much for MBAs and Minis.

2) A relatively light (meaning as compared to the 6.6 pound 2011 17" MBP) 17" MBA would be sweet. If such a box had existed and the M2 Studio had existed in January I would have purchased one of each; instead I bought a 16" MBP. I may be forever spoiled now by the superior display of the 16" M2 MBP.
 
1) M3 performance is moot. MBAs are Apple's lower end laptops so performance is already strong with just the lower end of available M2 performance. M3 performance improvements will matter for MBPs and Studios but not so much for MBAs and Minis.

2) A relatively light 17" MBA would be sweet. If such a box had existed and the M2 Studio had existed in January I would have purchased one of each; instead I bought a 16" MBP.
The point I am getting across is how it compares to other products.
 
1) M3 performance is moot. MBAs are Apple's lower end laptops so performance is already strong with just the lower end of available M2 performance. M3 performance improvements will matter for MBPs and Studios but not so much for MBAs and Minis.

"Performance is already strong" is the true moot point.

When the first Intel Macs came to overtake the G4 notebooks, performance seemed strong enough as well.

If VR is the future, we'll be buying all the speedbumps we can get until 2030 at least.

If VR apps really gain momentum, you'll be seeing people begging for M3 Ultra in a portable form factor as well.

M3 Ultra MBP + CPU-less Apple Vision for like $8000 total would be an heck of a workstation.
Would probably have absymal battery life but plug it into a train or plane outlet and you'll have a portable workplace you can't even dream of today.

Even in the baseline, if M3 brings ray-tracing, you'll have people upgrading that didn't even think about needing it today.

Not to mention that M3 will bring a big power efficiency boost for casual users as well (that the M2 failed to deliver).
 
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I bought external USB Number Pads for our laptops without them. Have you tried any USB-C ones?
Yeah an external number pad works when in desktop mode, but in desktop mode my preference is for a full-on external keyboard with number pad anyway. I am working in the field right now with paper-filled ad hoc horizontal spaces around me and the laptop in my lap; since I usually do data input using the full desktop setup I am really inefficient doing numbers on the MBP keyboard.

I would love a 17" with a number pad on the laptop, but looking at the 16" MBP in my lap I do not see how it would ever fit, even if the excellent speakers were relocated (which would probably be a bad thing anyway). EDIT: I have a solution. Make it an 18" laptop!
 
"Performance is already strong" is the true moot point.

When the first Intel Macs came to overtake the G4 notebooks, performance seemed strong enough as well.

If VR is the future, we'll be buying all the speedbumps we can get until 2030 at least.

If VR apps really gain momentum, you'll be seeing people begging for M3 Ultra in a portable form factor as well.

M3 Ultra MBP + CPU-less Apple Vision for like $8000 total would be an heck of a workstation.
Would probably have absymal battery life but plug it into a train or plane outlet and you'll have a portable workplace you can't even dream of today.

Even in the baseline, if M3 brings ray-tracing, you'll have people upgrading that didn't even think about needing it today.

Not to mention that M3 will bring a big power efficiency boost for casual users as well (that the M2 failed to deliver).
No. My "performance is already strong" comment was not about M2 versus M3 in general, it was only relative to the lowest end boxes that are intentionally limited so that they do not even get the top competence from M2, making M3 gains moot.

We agree that we all will want and benefit from M3 performance on higher end boxes. And the low end will get pulled along a bit too, but most of the (relative) limitations of the low end will remain - -because those boxes are lower end, by definition.
 
Add me to the "would kill to see this happen" category.

However, I just don't see it.

Apple is keeping product lines as simple as possible (with a few exceptions) and moved to the 2-tier system a while back, leaving behind the old "good, better, best" setup Steve Jobs put in place.

iPhone, iPhone Plus --EDIT: the iPhone Plus replaced the Mini.
iPhone Pro, Pro Max
iPad Pro 11", 12.9"
iPad Air, iPad Mini
MBA 13", 15"
MBP 14", 16"
Watch 41mm, 45mm
Watch SE 44mm, 40mm

With Mac desktops Apple is aiming at a single form-factor, thus the iMac 24" splits the difference between the two old 21"-27".
 
I scan though these forums, and it appears that some people will just never be satisfied.

Apple launches probably the most desired device, yet someone is already speaking of an even bigger MBA.
 
The 15" Air weighs around 3.3lbs iirc (American here, not gonna do the kg thing sorry lol).
That's 0.6lbs heavier than the 13" -- so let's assume that the 17" would add at least another 0.5lbs.
An "Air" approaching 4lbs. doesn't seem like much of an "Air" to me at that point. I think 15" is the biggest they should go.
A 17/18" Pro would be interesting though. It would be heavy...but there may be a market, especially if it has an option for the Ultra chip.
 
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