Any way to fix an iPhone's Trust Score?

[davidg4781]

I did a backup and restore of my iPhone 11 Pro a few weeks ago. Once it was back up, I wasn't able to add my Wells Fargo, Credit Union and a couple of other cars to my account. One of them is sending me a new card with the hopes that works but it looks like their virtual card will work for me (helps to fund Apple Cash).

Today, Wells Fargo completed their investigation and said my device's Trust Score is 01. There's a list of causes on Apple's legal site but the only one that looks like I may have violated is attempting to add a card too many times. Wells Fargo says I have several attempts and I need to cancel them but I'm not given that option. Wells Fargo said this score will stay with the device even if I sell it to someone else. They also said I will be able to add my card to my MacBook and Apple Watch but not my iPhone. Today, it was removed from Apple Watch by either Wells Fargo, Apple, or Visa (email came from Wells Fargo).

So does anyone have any insight into all this? I looked online and there were a few posts that were years old. I also tried posting on Reddit and my post was removed because it's a "repetitive question" that "the community never really answers".

 

[aihpcfl]

BLUF: I don't know what you can do except wait it out.

Details:

I was curious and did a search. So, it seems this is something Apple computes, there are a number of imputs, but the score can be improved over time, though Apple doesn't give details.

 

[davidg4781]

I tried another card and still getting the error. Some cards allow me to add them, though.

Part of me wants to not even use Apple Pay anymore. I'm also having problems with adding some banks to my Apple Watch and MacBook Pro.

I really hope the time between now and when the next iPhone comes out is enough time to clear this up. I really would like to upgrade but don't want that phone tainted with whatever messed up mine.

 

[aihpcfl]

Had to read through again to refresh memory --- Was everything ok before you did the backup and restore?

Also, I'm wondering, the trust score being the issue is based on what Wells Fargo told you. Is that really the issue? Did you get that explanation from anyone/anywhere else?

I'm wondering also if the "reputation" is linked to your Apple ID and not the device. Not saying it is, only just wondering.

Have you tried applying for an Apple Card?

Another thought. Is your device jail broke?

Thinking "what if this happened to me" it would be nice to have solid and complete information about what's going on.

 

[davidg4781]

Everything was great before the backup and restore. I had several cards loaded, I'd use 1-2 regularly (I kept a credit card or two in case of emergencies and to look cool 😎 ).

Wells Fargo says it has to do with the trust score. I don't think the other cards mentioned that (it's been a few weeks). Apple keeps saying they don't know what I'm talking about with the trust score until I mention it's on their web site. They have an investigation opened.

It may very well be linked to my Apple ID. The last person I talked to asked me to confirm some information from there. I had originally called because I want to buy a cheap, used iPhone to see if that will work. When I said I was having issues with other devices, she seemed to get concerned. Someone mentioned a token or security issue somewhere and maybe that's the case. I certainly haven't had any charge backs or anything.

I've had an Apple Card I think since it launched.

When I started having this issue, I came upon a few posts on Apple's help site, Reddit, and here. No one had any real resolution and they just stopped responding. If these people can't sort it, I'll wait a week, try again, then get on the public beta and file an issue through there. Maybe that will get a different set of eyes on it.

 

[aihpcfl]

You have Apple Card and it is in your wallet, and there's been no issue with that? Interesting. I mean, if this is the case, Goldman Sachs doesn't see a problem.

Please, if you figure this out, post the explanation.

 

[chown33]

I did a bit of searching and came up with this MR article from 2018 regarding "Device Trust Score".

Apple Using a 'Device Trust Score' to Identify and Prevent Fraud on iTunes and App Stores

With the release of iOS 12, tvOS 12, and watchOS 5 yesterday, Apple made some quiet changes to its iTunes and App Store privacy policy on iOS devices...

www.macrumors.com

Unfortunately, it's from 2018, so it's difficult to determine how much of what it says is still relevant.

Also, I had to quote the word "trust" when doing the search, otherwise I got lots of results that talk about credit score or "trusted storage".

I'm curious how this turns out, too.

 

[ab22]

...Unfortunately, it's from 2018, so it's difficult to determine how much of what it says is still relevant...

Legal - iTunes Store & Privacy - Apple

Data & Privacy

www.apple.com

Published Date: September 20, 2024

edit : although there's no mention there of adding cards; or of 'device trust' at https://support.apple.com/en-us/101554 or the links .

https://discussions.apple.com/threa...260451755022&sortBy=oldest_first#260451755022 has informed-sounding info. from Jeff Donald

 

[davidg4781]

You have Apple Card and it is in your wallet, and there's been no issue with that? Interesting. I mean, if this is the case, Goldman Sachs doesn't see a problem.

Please, if you figure this out, post the explanation.

Correct. They have no problem adding this card back and taking my payments on it.

 

[davidg4781]

Legal - iTunes Store & Privacy - Apple

Data & Privacy

www.apple.com

Published Date: September 20, 2024

edit : although there's no mention there of adding cards; or of 'device trust' at https://support.apple.com/en-us/101554 or the links .

https://discussions.apple.com/threa...260451755022&sortBy=oldest_first#260451755022 has informed-sounding info. from Jeff Donald

Thanks! I don't think I've seen that bottom link in all my searches. I'll read through that.

I kind of want to wait until Apple and Wells Fargo finish their investigation. If it is a password thing or something like what's posted in that link, I want them to find it and hopefully fix it.

 

[ab22]

It may be coincidence, but the image which appeared to show a typical decision making process is now 'not found'

 

[davidg4781]

A few updates.

I've seen a few more posts on Reddit's r/AppleWallet lately with this same issue, all starting a couple of months ago and around when iOS 18.3 came out.

My FordPass Visa (fnbo.com?) was giving me the same issue. I called them and they told me I needed to use the card since I haven't used it in a couple of months but they would escalate. They called back today and told me they relaxed the card on the back end and asked me to try again. It added with no issue. She could not tell me what they meant by relaxing the card.

 

[tominco]

Just want to add this, as I'm having exactly the same problem.

I've been having the exact same issue for just shy of two months now. I did a full reset of my phone at that time, and when it was back up and running, I had issues adding cards. One worked, a couple worked when the issuing bank did a bypass, but most do not. Apple Card was not a problem, but Citi, Chase, Capital One, and Wells Fargo, are all problems. Apple did a deep investigation and pointed to the issuing banks and VISA/MasterCard. All of the banks say things are ok on their end and that it's apple. Chase, CapitalOne, and Wells Fargo all point to the device score of 01 being the issue saying they have no control on that and that it is Apple's problem. Again, Apple denies that even exists.

Oh, and the cards can all be added to other devices using the same Apple ID, so it is definitely device specific.

Seeing as I have AppleCare, I'm about to tell Apple to just give me a new phone.

 

[aihpcfl]

@tominco It's interesting that your problem seems to have begun after the reset; and perhaps not exactly the same case as the OP, but similar. I think if it were me, I would reload the OS. My thinking is that it does sound like something with the device and knowing that hiccups can happen, it seems reloading the OS is worth a try.

 

[davidg4781]

I’m going to leave it alone for the month of March.

I was able to add Wells Fargo to my MacBook and Apple Watch but it was removed a few days later.

Curious… did this start with iOS 18.3?

 

[aihpcfl]

Long story short with a point: I once had the issue where the wallet stopped updating new transactions. It happened to me when Apple rolled out the joint account option and I added my wife. The funny thing was it was only me; wife's wallet was fine. I learned other people had had the issue, some of them well in the past, and I was in contact with someone on Reddit who was having the issue at the same time as me. I reloaded the OS and was in contact with Apple support before and after that. Apple support was supportive, but they didn't fix the problem. However, weeks after I gave up and resolved to wait it out or live with it, the wallet started updating again. I checked with the contact on Reddit, and same thing.

The point is weird stuff happens. It happens to some people but not others, at different times. I never learned exactly what happened. I don't think the Apple support people I talked to knew what happened. I did contact the last person I talked to at Apple and let them know it had started working again, and they thanked me for letting them know, but it didn't sound like they knew that something was broken and had been corrected in the system.

My sense is this issue you guys are having is the same kind of mystery, in the general way. Waiting may be the best use of your time.

 

[tominco]

@tominco It's interesting that your problem seems to have begun after the reset; and perhaps not exactly the same case as the OP, but similar. I think if it were me, I would reload the OS. My thinking is that it does sound like something with the device and knowing that hiccups can happen, it seems reloading the OS is worth a try.

I contacted Apple again today (the person who seemed moderately helpful 6 weeks ago) and at her suggestion did a reset and restore of my phone yet again. Sadly, it did not help at all. She also disavows any knowledge of a device score. I believe she doesn't know, but I also believe it exists, and Apple is ultra secretive about it.

My phone is still under Apple Care, so I'm tempted to ask for a replacement. I may switch to my older phone for a couple of months and let this one sit for a while and see if it clears up in mid May or June.

 

[aihpcfl]

I contacted Apple again today (the person who seemed moderately helpful 6 weeks ago) and at her suggestion did a reset and restore of my phone yet again. Sadly, it did not help at all. She also disavows any knowledge of a device score. I believe she doesn't know, but I also believe it exists, and Apple is ultra secretive about it.

My phone is still under Apple Care, so I'm tempted to ask for a replacement. I may switch to my older phone for a couple of months and let this one sit for a while and see if it clears up in mid May or June.

A couple of concerns. From following the thread, and reading the threads at the links that have been posted, I'm not convinced this isn't related to the Apple account. I mean I just don't really have a clue if it is the device software or what? That is, if it is an issue with your account, a new device may not fix the issue. Of course, if you get a new device, whichever way it turns out will provide answers.

Also, it does sound like the trust score is a real thing, and there a multiple inputs, and the idea of it is to differentiation normal use from other types of possibly malicious uses. One of the inputs may be movement like going to and from work, going shopping, etc. In other words, letting the phone sit and then suddenly using it may be the wrong thing to do. Using the phone as you normally would may be the right thing to do.

Of course, I'm just speculating. Just thinking out loud.

 

[tominco]

For now, rather than getting my 6 month old (to me) refurb iPhone 13 mini replaced, I switched back to my 2 1/2 year old iPhone 13, and was able to add all the cards I wanted to it, with no issues. It sure seems like a device problem to me. And before you say the refurb was the problem, all of the cards worked for 4 months, before I did a reset on the mini in January.

 

[aihpcfl]

For now, rather than getting my 6 month old (to me) refurb iPhone 13 mini replaced, I switched back to my 2 1/2 year old iPhone 13, and was able to add all the cards I wanted to it, with no issues. It sure seems like a device problem to me. And before you say the refurb was the problem, all of the cards worked for 4 months, before I did a reset on the mini in January.

That does seem to point to the device, or something with the software installation on that device. But I can't help but again think of the issue I had with the wallet not updating transactions. My wife and I had the same device model, same OS version, yet I had the issue and she didn't, plus I reloaded the OS and that didn't fix it--and then one day it corrected because of nothing I did. There is more going on than just the device, I think.

 

[Jeff Donald]

I see that my name came up in a post amongst all the replies. I’m happy to share what I know, in most instances what I know comes from Apple public articles, friends at PNO’s, banks, credit card processors and Token Service Providers (there’s a term I haven’t seen mentioned in this thread yet).

Just start by asking me questions will be easiest. General questions get general answers. Specifics come with specific questions.

 

[tominco]

I see that my name came up in a post amongst all the replies. I’m happy to share what I know, in most instances what I know comes from Apple public articles, friends at PNO’s, banks, credit card processors and Token Service Providers (there’s a term I haven’t seen mentioned in this thread yet).

Just start by asking me questions will be easiest. General questions get general answers. Specifics come with specific questions.

I'll ask about the device score. I'm guessing there really is such a thing. Who controls it? Credit card companies/banks point to Apple. It's impossible to talk to the PNOs, and Apple denies its existence, but points to the PNOs. How does a device get a bad score, and is it possible to raise the score? If so, how? It seems some banks are willing to override, while others deny that it can be done. Is there anyway to determine what your device's score is?

This has been very frustrating, as I purchased a refurb 13 mini from Apple in August and in January, it appears the score is 1 and the phone is pretty useless for Apple Pay.

 

[Jeff Donald]

.

 

[Jeff Donald]

The control rests mostly with the Apple Account (formerly known as Apple ID) owner. The information that your iPhone shares anonymously is listed below.

• Your credit, debit, or prepaid card number
• The name and billing address associated with your Apple Account
• General information about your Apple Account activity (for example, whether you have a long history of transactions within iTunes)
• Information about your device and, if using Apple Watch, the paired iOS device (for example, a device identifier, phone number, and the name and model, for both your Apple Watch and paired iOS device)
• Location at the time you add your card (if you have Location Services enabled)
• Account or device history of adding payment cards
• Aggregated stats relating to the information from payment cards you’ve added or attempted to add to Apple Pay

Yes, the owner could enter the wrong details off the card. If the CVV2 number is off, it’s an automatic decline by the Payment Network Operator or PNO (Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Discover etc.). The vast majority of banks use the PNO for all the preliminary verification. A few of the larger US banks do there own including Chase, BoA and Citi all do their own and rarely are their issues with there cards. Occasionally Citi and BoA, though it’s uncommon. It’s almost never Chase. They may also do it for smaller banks.

Wrong address is a big issue. Make sure the address for your Apple Account, ME contact card in Contacts app and address the bank has all match. This can cause an instant fail if not corrected. But will also instant fail if fixed right before trying to validate the card. A fraudster changes Apple Account information right before verifying a card. Change address and wait 2 to 4 weeks.

Apple Account activity is what it is. If your Apple Account is dormant, instant fail, too new, another instant fail. Dormant account needs months of activity to look normal. A brand new account needs at least one month of activity. Too many Apple Accounts is another instant fail.

There are limits on attempts to add and total number of cards ever attempted. Generally, 5 failed attempts within 24 hours and a minimum 24 hour freeze.

The last item is big. If one card fails to add, every other PBO/bank will know because the aggregated fails are shared with all the PNO’s when you try to add a different card on a different network.

Legal - Apple Pay & Privacy- Apple

I’ll stop here and ask for questions on the above.

 

[davidg4781]

Alright, it's been about 30 days and I'm on iOS 18.4. Should I try adding these cards again? If so, what should my process be?

Should I do a backup and restore? I did that last time before this whole mess started.

Should I call Wells Fargo and have them on the line when I try adding?

Should I wait another month? I don't want to add them only to start the timer or whatever on this whole process again.