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Aperture 2? RAW support?

G

gryffinwings

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 25, 2012
118
0
So I just got Aperture 2 installed. I have. While I have my Nikon D5100 in the shop, I'm trying to find out what I can do with this program.

I normally shoot in JPEG, but if I wanted to shoot RAW, what are my options?

NOTE: I have a Mac G5, so Aperture 3 is not an option. Right now I'm looking for work arounds or program modifications.
 
A quick www search revealed this:

File Formats
  • Native RAW import and editing of images from leading digital cameras and camera backs (See RAW support page for model listing.): .ARW, .CR2, .CRW, .MOS, .NEF, .RAF, .RAW, .SRW, .TIF, .OLY, .FFF, .3FR, .DNG2
  • Compatible with all major still image formats: JPEG, GIF, TIFF, PNG, PDF, PSD3
Click to expand...
from Aperture 2 - Technical Specifications

Another quick www search brings you here.
 
Your machine is too old, it doesn't support the D5100's RAW files: neither Apple (requires 10.6.8 or later) nor Nikon nor Adobe support PowerPC Macs. I'm sorry to say, but your best bet is to update your machine (it's old enough so that you should look into putting money aside for a new machine anyway).

But you can still use Aperture 2 while shooting jpg.
 
Ok, so there is a bit of conflicting information. According to the Apple page for Aperture 2 Technical specifications it does support .NEF files.

However, I don't understand the camera support at all and how this is tied in.
 
gryffinwings said:
Ok, so there is a bit of conflicting information. According to the Apple page for Aperture 2 Technical specifications it does support .NEF files.
Click to expand...
It's not at all conflicting: even though all Nikon RAW files share the .nef suffix, each model has actually its own format. While it is generally true that newer versions of a piece of software can read all of the older .nef formats, the contrary is not true. If you have a hard time understanding this, perhaps this analogy helps: you cannot open a Word 2004 document with Word 1998, even though both share the .doc suffix, they're actually different file formats. At the time of creation, Apple, Adobe and Nikon couldn't have known about the sensor they use 4 years down the road.

So again, I'm sure that you will not be able to work with your camera's RAW files with any popular software of choice: Aperture, Lightroom, Photoshop, Adobe Camera RAW or iPhoto. And your computer is too old to ever support this format. Sorry for being the bearer of bad news.
 
gryffinwings said:
Ok, so there is a bit of conflicting information. According to the Apple page for Aperture 2 Technical specifications it does support .NEF files.

However, I don't understand the camera support at all and how this is tied in.
Click to expand...
If you go to Apple's RAW support page, it tells you what version of Aperture are needed for what particular camera models. And the D5100 is marked to show that it needs Aperture 3.

In addition there is also OS X Lion: Supported digital camera RAW formats which lists camera raw support by which patch version of lion adds support for it.
 
Well upgrading is not a viable at this point in time, it looks like I need to convert the NEF files into DNG, which is one thing I've heard I can do, any recommendations on this?
 
gryffinwings said:
Well upgrading is not a viable at this point in time, it looks like I need to convert the NEF files into DNG, which is one thing I've heard I can do, any recommendations on this?
Click to expand...
Try it, DNG files should produce better results than jpegs.

Even if you go the NEF to DNG route, you will want to keep the NEF files for later use as it will still give you the best results.
 
Bear said:
Try it, DNG files should produce better results than jpegs.

Even if you go the NEF to DNG route, you will want to keep the NEF files for later use as it will still give you the best results.
Click to expand...

What do I lose when I convert from NEF to DNG.
 
gryffinwings said:
Well upgrading is not a viable at this point in time, it looks like I need to convert the NEF files into DNG, which is one thing I've heard I can do, any recommendations on this?
Click to expand...
I was doing this on a regular basis when working on my G5.. even photoshop CS4 did not support my raw files from Olympus. There was never any visible loss even the camera metadata files remained intact. Other than the extra time it took to convert to dng, there was no downside imo. My shots were just as sharp and dynamic either way, as I discovered later when upgrading to an intel chip and using CS5/Aperture 3.

Adobe's dng converter is a free download, btw.. and does support your Nikon's native format.;)
 
srf4real said:
I was doing this on a regular basis when working on my G5.. even photoshop CS4 did not support my raw files from Olympus. There was never any visible loss even the camera metadata files remained intact. Other than the extra time it took to convert to dng, there was no downside imo. My shots were just as sharp and dynamic either way, as I discovered later when upgrading to an intel chip and using CS5/Aperture 3.

Adobe's dng converter is a free download, btw.. and does support your Nikon's native format.;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, just got the Adobe DNG converter. Now I just can't wait to get my D5100 back from the shop to start trying this.

Actually, it's not working, I actually ended up installing the newest because it said 10.4-10.7 was supported. So now what?
 
gryffinwings said:
Well upgrading is not a viable at this point in time, it looks like I need to convert the NEF files into DNG, which is one thing I've heard I can do, any recommendations on this?
Click to expand...
gryffinwings said:
Actually, it's not working, I actually ended up installing the newest because it said 10.4-10.7 was supported. So now what?
Click to expand...
You need to install version 6.4 of Adobe's Camera RAW (which includes the DNG converter), it is the last version which supports PowerPC Macs -- and luckily for you, support for the D5100. If you try to install later versions, they will no longer work since they require Intel-based Macs.
 
Bear said:
You might want to think about saving money towards upgrading hardware and software at some point. That way you aren't caught by surprise by an emergency upgrade.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
It's like driving a 20-year-old car and expecting it to work for another 10 years. Even if the hardware is still functional, the world of software has moved on. The OP is extremely lucky since the last version of Adobe's RAW converter which supports PowerPC-based Macs adds support for his camera.
 
snberk103 said:
In theory - nothing. DNG is Adobe's RAW file format based on open standards. They are trying to get it adopted as a standard - which is a good thing.
Click to expand...
In theory nothing, In practice what if there's something Adobe improves in the conversion for the raw images for your camera? What is Aperture does a better job with the NEF files (once you finally upgrade hardware) than it can do with the DNG files?

What if a competing "raw image format" gets adopted by a standards body?

For some people it won't matter if they toss their original NEF files once they've converted them to DNG, for others it will.
 
Bear said:
What if a competing "raw image format" gets adopted by a standards body?
Click to expand...
I don't think .nef and .crw files aren't going anywhere anytime soon either. The dng file format is useful for manufacturers of digital cameras that produce in much smaller volume (e. g. medium format digibacks).

I would prefer if Canon and Nikon were to publish the specs for each version of their .nef files to help third-party developers (e. g. Adobe and Apple) write their own denoise algorithms and converters. Even if the manufacturer's RAW converter often has an edge when it comes to conversion quality, their workflow (or lack thereof) make them unusable as a primary tool. I'm still dreading to use Sigma's RAW converter which nevertheless produces very, very pleasing results.
 
Bear said:
In theory nothing, In practice what if there's something Adobe improves in the conversion for the raw images for your camera? What is Aperture does a better job with the NEF files (once you finally upgrade hardware) than it can do with the DNG files?

What if a competing "raw image format" gets adopted by a standards body?

For some people it won't matter if they toss their original NEF files once they've converted them to DNG, for others it will.
Click to expand...

My belief is that DNG files are going to get more support from Adobe than NEF files are from Apple. Adobe is putting a lot of resources into keeping DNG current and to broadening it's adoption. I don't think Apple can put that kind of support behind NEF files ... especially since in a few years that version of NEF file may not even be used by current cameras. There isn't just one NEF - there are several versions that are created by different Nikon cameras.

The DNG format is, from what I've read, very nearly already adopted as a standard. There isn't a "competing" RAW format that is being promoted - there really can't be because all the other RAW formats are tied to specific camera makers. So it's not a case of DNG or " ?? ". It's simply DNG : "yes or no".

Adobe upgrades their 'process' engine every couple of years. So my DNGs - which used 'process2010' can be reprocessed with 'process2012'... and usually this is an improvement for my images.

Just saying....
 
snberk103 said:
My belief is that DNG files are going to get more support from Adobe than NEF files are from Apple. Adobe is putting a lot of resources into keeping DNG current and to broadening it's adoption. I don't think Apple can put that kind of support behind NEF files ... especially since in a few years that version of NEF file may not even be used by current cameras. There isn't just one NEF - there are several versions that are created by different Nikon cameras.
Click to expand...
I don't think DNG conversions work that way: you cannot use the same algorithm to convert Nikon RAW data (even if it is converted to DNG), Fuji RAW data, Canon RAW data or Hasselblad RAW data. Some of these cameras will have a different photo site layout or not even lack the anti-alias filter (think Fuji). And even if this is identical different sensors have different characteristics.

So I don't think you win anything in terms of IQ if you use a common container format for the RAW data. To get anything out of the data, you need to use camera-specific (not just vendor-specific) conversion algorithms.
snberk103 said:
Adobe upgrades their 'process' engine every couple of years. So my DNGs - which used 'process2010' can be reprocessed with 'process2012'... and usually this is an improvement for my images.
Click to expand...
How is that different from other RAW formats? As I understand it, ACR internally works with DNGs anyway.
 
gryffinwings said:
Yeah I noticed the support for my D5100, which means I won't have to change equipment for a while.
Click to expand...

If you want to keep that equipment, your best bet will be to NOT use Apple or Adobe software. Install Linux on that Mac and use free alternatives like Rawtherapee, DarkRoom, The GIMP, ufraw and a bunch of other stuff that basically will do the same job.

The Combo of Aperture 2, PTLens and Photoshop CS3 (Extended) of course will be more comfortable and better integrated than the free alternatives, BUT it is also a pricey dead end street when you want to stay on PowerPC hardware. There won't be any updates or support. That's reason enough not to use those applications anymore.

(Please note that I use Aperture 3, PTLens, Photoshop CS3 Extended and a few other commercial applications myself. It's expensive but powerful software. But I'm on Intel hardware, so it's not an evolutionary dead end, only pricey.)
 
Winni said:
If you want to keep that equipment, your best bet will be to NOT use Apple or Adobe software. Install Linux on that Mac and use free alternatives like Rawtherapee, DarkRoom, The GIMP, ufraw and a bunch of other stuff that basically will do the same job.

The Combo of Aperture 2, PTLens and Photoshop CS3 (Extended) of course will be more comfortable and better integrated than the free alternatives, BUT it is also a pricey dead end street when you want to stay on PowerPC hardware. There won't be any updates or support. That's reason enough not to use those applications anymore.

(Please note that I use Aperture 3, PTLens, Photoshop CS3 Extended and a few other commercial applications myself. It's expensive but powerful software. But I'm on Intel hardware, so it's not an evolutionary dead end, only pricey.)
Click to expand...

This isn't a problem as I have a friend that has the software and is letting me install it on my computer.
 
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