Apple Agrees to Help India With Anti-Spam App After Initially Refusing Due to Privacy Concerns

[MacRumors]

Apple has agreed to help the Indian government develop an anti-spam app for iOS devices, after initially refusing to do so because of privacy concerns, according to Reuters.

In early September we reported that the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI) attempted to get its Do Not Disturb (DND) software on the App Store. The app lets users share spam call and text message logs with the agency, which then sends the data to mobile operators for them to block the spammers.

Apple originally told regulators that the DND app violates its privacy policy, however today's report suggests the tech giant has had a change of heart.

Facing public criticism from the regulator, Apple executives flew to New Delhi last month and told officials the company would help develop the app, but only with limited capabilities, according to a government official aware of the matter.

Apple's executives have told India that its current iOS platform might not allow for some of the government's requests, such as making call logs available within the app that would allow users to report them as spam, the official said.

According to Indian officials, Apple has offered to help develop an app that can solve the regulator's requirements "to an extent".

Meanwhile, an Apple spokesman has confirmed that the new iOS features to combat spam text messages would help the government build the app, but he didn't comment on the app's potential inability to access call logs for reporting spam. The spokesman also underlined the fact that Apple had not changed its stance on privacy.

Marketing cold calls and unsolicited commercial text messages have become a big problem in India. Mobile users have the option to register themselves under a "do not disturb" service to block marketers, but businesses have gamed the system by using multiple phone numbers for promotions, according to Reuters. TRAI's Do Not Disturb app has been available on Android since last year and has been downloaded more than 100,000 times.

Before the app launches, it asks the user to allow it access to contacts and view text messages. Users can then start reporting numbers as spam. This kind of access has evidently concerned Apple. "The app can peep into logs, Apple had conveyed that their (privacy) policy does not allow this," said a cited industry source familiar with the matter. Those concerns prompted Apple to ask for talks with state regulators, but the proposal has apparently frustrated officials.

"The whole exercise in organizing the proposed meeting would be a waste of resources ... please share concrete solutions that have a likelihood of addressing the issues we have been discussing over the past one year," the regulator wrote in September.

Later the same month, Apple told TRAI it had identified potential solutions, but that it would need to have further discussions with the regulator's technical staff. Those discussions are said to have taken place in October, with Apple subsequently confirming that it would help develop the first version of the app with limited features.

Apple has been in talks with the Indian government to open retail stores and to gain permission to sell used iPhones imported into the country. The company is also seeking economic concessions including tax breaks as it sets up local manufacturing plants there, but those efforts could have been negatively impacted by Apple's refusal to approve the anti-spam software.

Article Link: Apple Agrees to Help India With Anti-Spam App After Initially Refusing Due to Privacy Concerns

 

[SBlue1]

I would welcome such an app for Europe as well. At the moment its a very time consuming process of filling out a website of the regulating office just to report a spam number.

 

[69Mustang]

"The whole exercise in organizing the proposed meeting would be a waste of resources ... please share concrete solutions that have a likelihood of addressing the issues we have been discussing over the past one year," the regulator wrote in September.
My wife says this sounds rude... and like something I would say to someone. Just sounds direct to me, and efficient, and truthful. Probably saved about 6 months of back and forth.

On topic: I wish someone would find an answer for spammers using local numbers.

 

[Avieshek]

Bring 'Kundli' & 'Tally' to macOS, unless, it wants to disappear itself with time and only specific to Windows.

 

[err404]

Apple didn’t reject the concept of a DND app. Many exist on iOS already. The issue was the proposed implementation. If they make a more compliant app it shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

click-bait-y headline since the salient piece of the article is "but only with limited capabilities." The big sticking point was that the Indian government wanted full access to call logs in their app which would give them the ability to do whatever they wish with those data. What Apple has proposed back is similar to Apps other telecoms have (e.g. ATT) that report on spam blocking and allow you to report. Key difference being that the App doesn't get direct access to call data on the device.

 

[sirozha]

I have exactly the same problem in the US. I wush such a system existed in the US so that mobile operators would at least mark these calls as spam and users could block all spam-marked calls on their devices. As it stands now, I have to block each such call manually in my phone after I answer it, but the spammers use a different number in their CallerID every time

My mobile carrier - T-Mobile marks some of these calls as Spam Likely, but there’s no way to block such calls by their Name CallerID, so they still ring on my cell phone with the name CallerID “Spam Likely”.

My VoIP provider also has a system that assigns a spam probability to incoming calls based on the subscriber reports. There is a tool on their web portal for each subscriber to block all high-spam-probability calls or to send them to voicemail without ringing the phone.

Apple should work with mobile carriers like T-Mobile to develop a feature in iOS that allows all calls marked as “Spam Likely” to be blocked if the user so desires. It would be an extension of the existing iOS feature that already allows users to block calling numbers on an individual basis.

 

[err404]

I have exactly the same problem in the US. I wush such a system existed in the US so that mobile operators would at least mark these calls as spam and users could block all spam-marked calls on their devices. As it stands now, I have to block each such call manually in my phone after I answer it, but the spammers use a different number in their CallerID every time

My mobile carrier - T-Mobile marks some of these calls as Spam Likely, but there’s no way to block such calls by their Name CallerID, so they still ring on my cell phone with the name CallerID “Spam Likely”.

My VoIP provider also has a system that assigns a spam probability to incoming calls based on the subscriber reports. There is a tool on their web portal for each subscriber to block all high-spam-probability calls or to send them to voicemail without ringing the phone.

Apple should work with mobile carriers like T-Mobile to develop a feature in iOS that allows all calls marked as “Spam Likely” to be blocked if the user so desires. It would be an extension of the existing iOS feature that already allows users to block calling numbers on an individual basis.

They do. ATT has an pretty good app. Fraud calls won’t even ring, but may have a notification afterwards, spam is labeled as such as well as telemarketers. You can even maintain your own block list.
It’s not perfect, it has reduced my spam calls by almost 90%.

 

[69Mustang]

click-bait-y headline since the salient piece of the article is "but only with limited capabilities." The big sticking point was that the Indian government wanted full access to call logs in their app which would give them the ability to do whatever they wish with those data. What Apple has proposed back is similar to Apps other telecoms have (e.g. ATT) that report on spam blocking and allow you to report. Key difference being that the App doesn't get direct access to call data on the device.

It's not exactly click bait. It's pretty much what Apple has agreed to do. That "limited capabilities" is a fairly ambiguous phrase. What degree of limited capability are we talking about? The Indian government isn't specifying and neither is Apple. I'm assuming you're guessing (bolded) on this portion of your comment because based on the article's content we don't know what "limited capabilities" actually entails.

 

[mabhatter]

Apple didn’t reject the concept of a DND app. Many exist on iOS already. The issue was the proposed implementation. If they make a more compliant app it shouldn’t be an issue.

I think the problem is that the app seems to want evidence to send as well. So the app is trying to pull the actual call log with numbers and times of unwanted calls? maybe they have to bug you 3 times before you can report a number or something?

Either way, Apple doesn’t open up Phone logs like that to apps, let alone an app that would also reference contacts. They might do it “one time” but the power grab is real to be abused.

 

[Dj64Mk7]

They might do it “one time” but the power grab is real to be abused.

The issue, in my eyes, is that doing it “one time” would set a precedent for other governments.

 

[AbSoluTc]

They do. ATT has an pretty good app. Fraud calls won’t even ring, but may have a notification afterwards, spam is labeled as such as well as telemarketers. You can even maintain your own block list.
It’s not perfect, it has reduced my spam calls by almost 90%.

Yup, I use this app and signed up for the service (free) as well. Going on a year now and it's 98% accurate.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

It's not exactly click bait. It's pretty much what Apple has agreed to do. That "limited capabilities" is a fairly ambiguous phrase. What degree of limited capability are we talking about? The Indian government isn't specifying and neither is Apple. I'm assuming you're guessing (bolded) on this portion of your comment because based on the article's content we don't know what "limited capabilities" actually entails.

fair enough, but Occam's Razer and India stating that Apple hasn't changed it's privacy stance I think my assumptions are pretty safe.

 

[Scottsoapbox]

I wish someone would find an answer for spammers using local numbers.

Don't answer numbers not in your phone's contacts.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

It's not exactly click bait. It's pretty much what Apple has agreed to do. That "limited capabilities" is a fairly ambiguous phrase. What degree of limited capability are we talking about? The Indian government isn't specifying and neither is Apple. I'm assuming you're guessing (bolded) on this portion of your comment because based on the article's content we don't know what "limited capabilities" actually entails.

I also wonder Apple's "limited capabilities" really entail.

If just looking at metadata, blocking spam/robo calls is gamed by callers roaming frequently to new numbers. But there is a "limited capability" solution, as follows:

The analogy I draw in is that of firewall rules, which is guided by metadata (source/destination addresses/ports), whereby one can select "deny all, allow by exception" or, conversely, "allow all, deny by exception". These two models need be aided with machine learning, whereby all answer/reply/calling activities get recorded vis-a-vis that metadata.

It is not perfect, and would allow, selectively, opt-in. But it is better than the present state of affairs, with the avalanche of robo calls one gets.

Just thinking aloud.

 

[69Mustang]

fair enough, but Occam's Razer and India stating that Apple hasn't changed it's privacy stance I think my assumptions are pretty safe.

I disagree. Your assumptions can't be safe because you misinterpreted what you read in the article... either you did or I did. But nowhere in the article is the Indian government stating Apple hasn't changed it privacy stance. I'm thinking you're referencing this:

Meanwhile, an Apple spokesman has confirmed that the new iOS features to combat spam text messages would help the government build the app, but he didn't comment on the app's potential inability to access call logs for reporting spam. The spokesman also underlined the fact that Apple had not changed its stance on privacy.

That's not a representative of the Indian government. That's an Apple rep. That's an Apple rep who didn't comment on the call log access and said Apple didn't change it's stance on privacy. Stance. That is the key word here. Apple's stance is simply what they believe, not their policy. They didn't change their stance on privacy in China either, yet they removed VPN apps. So presented with the problem of making the Indian government happy so that Apple can continue to do business in India, Occam's Razor suggests Apple is going to help them build an app that will make them happy. What's constituted in that happiness, we don't know. That's been my entire point. So that I'm clear, my disagreement isn't with what Apple might do to satisfy the Indian government. My disagreement is with your assertion. There's simply no basis for it and recent history to the contrary.

 

[imronburgundy]

Don't answer numbers not in your phone's contacts.

Great advice /s. Seriously, when you get 5+ calls a day from "local" numbers that are really just spoofed calls, some peoples' jobs require them to answer the phone and it can get tiring.

 

[cmwade77]

"The whole exercise in organizing the proposed meeting would be a waste of resources ... please share concrete solutions that have a likelihood of addressing the issues we have been discussing over the past one year," the regulator wrote in September.
My wife says this sounds rude... and like something I would say to someone. Just sounds direct to me, and efficient, and truthful. Probably saved about 6 months of back and forth.

On topic: I wish someone would find an answer for spammers using local numbers.

I agree completely with both of your statements, although for using local numbers, if we would simply require the phone companies to ACCURATELY identify EVERY caller, then this wouldn't be an issue. Really, they know what number was used to dial the phone, they know what number they dialed, obviously because the call gets connected, even if that information isn't shared with the end user, then they should be required to have a simple way to report the last call as a telemarketer and they should be actively preventing caller id spoofing.

 

[69Mustang]

Don't answer numbers not in your phone's contacts.

Don't I wish. Unfortunately, a lot of my business is referral. Unfortunately, a lot more of my business deals with E-suite types who delegate to assistants that don't always call from the same numbers. My team also does a lot of work on customer sites so strange numbers are a part of my life.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

I disagree. Your assumptions can't be safe because you misinterpreted what you read in the article... either you did or I did. But nowhere in the article is the Indian government stating Apple hasn't changed it privacy stance. I'm thinking you're referencing this:

That's not a representative of the Indian government. That's an Apple rep. That's an Apple rep who didn't comment on the call log access and said Apple didn't change it's stance on privacy. Stance. That is the key word here. Apple's stance is simply what they believe, not their policy. They didn't change their stance on privacy in China either, yet they removed VPN apps. So presented with the problem of making the Indian government happy so that Apple can continue to do business in India, Occam's Razor suggests Apple is going to help them build an app that will make them happy. What's constituted in that happiness, we don't know. That's been my entire point. So that I'm clear, my disagreement isn't with what Apple might do to satisfy the Indian government. My disagreement is with your assertion. There's simply no basis for it and recent history to the contrary.

I fail at reading comprehension today, I mixed up the Apple and Indian Government spokespeople.

 

[69Mustang]

I fail at reading comprehension today, I mixed up the Apple and Indian Government spokespeople.

That's everyday at my house. I live with 3 women. I just fail at everything. Everything 'cept my stellar imitation of an ATM. Apparently I am pretty good at that.

 

[techwhiz]

More than half of the sim call I get come from India. SMH