Apple CEO Tim Cook is not worried about Kindle Fire

[GarytheiPhonema]

This article says Tim Cook isn't afraid of the Kindle Fire. I'm not either! Kindle Fire doesn't have half of what my wife and I need in a tablet. Cant wait for iPad 3

http://bit.ly/rtXEtC

 

[jsh1120]

Different markets. The Amazon Fire will sell very well to many consumers who don't need or want some of the features the iPad has and the Fire does not. Just as the iPad has been purchased by many consumers who don't need or want the features of a small notebook computer.

It all comes down to "filling the gaps" in one's personal technology profile. The Fire will fill those gaps for many consumers. Such folks may have opted for an iPad but many are simply not willing/able to spend $500-$900 for a device that is laden with features they don't use. That is a potentially huge market but it's not necessarily a market that Apple can penetrate with the iPad.

It's more telling that Apple has dropped the price of the iPod Touch to $199 in the face of declining sales and the introduction of the Fire. The iPad isn't likely to face competition from the Fire but the iPod Touch is extremely vulnerable.

 

[GarytheiPhonema]

interesting I had not even though of the iPod touch being vulnerable. I think because of its screen size it is also a different market but we will see. 7inch Apple tablet?

 

[jsh1120]

interesting I had not even though of the iPod touch being vulnerable. I think because of its screen size it is also a different market but we will see. 7inch Apple tablet?

I suspect that may be the successor to the iPod Touch. (SuperTouch?) iPod Touch sales are down nearly 30% compared to a year ago. It's clearly a dying product line (mainly a victim of the iPad, I think) and I suspect the Fire will kill it off. (Actually I think it's dead already. Just no announcement of the funeral.)

By coming out with an iPod SuperTouch with a feature set that more or less matches the Amazon Fire Apple could revitalize the iPod product line (even at, say, $250). In addition, I suspect that branding it as an iPod rather than an iPad would minimize cannibalizing sales from the iPad product line and not invite invidious comparisons to the "real" iPad. Finally, it would avoid embarrassing questions about Steve Jobs' negative comments about tablets with form factors smaller than the iPad.

Just someone with some marketing experience speculating here. I'm sure Apple folks thought of all this long before I did.

 

[Piggie]

But it's a pointless comment from Tim Cook.

Irrespective of what he thinks, as part of his job, just what would you expect him to say, or anyone to say in any company in his position?

 

[Michael CM1]

The iPod Touch vulnerable? Have you tried reading things on a 3.5-inch screen? It can be done, but it's way different compared to a 7-inch screen.

Plus I don't believe you can listen to any music on a Fire that hasn't been purchased through Amazon. With an iPod Touch, you can use iTunes to rip CDs or buy music online. Apples and oranges.

 

[urkel]

This article says Tim Cook isn't afraid of the Kindle Fire. I'm not either! Kindle Fire doesn't have half of what my wife and I need in a tablet.

...but it does have everything that most average consumers need in a tablet.

We're on a Mac Enthusiast message board so our higher demands are not the norm.

Cant wait for iPad 3

I can.

I preordered a Fire on launch day because what i've always wanted is a 7" tablet (10" iPad is too big, 3.5" iPhone is too small). But in thinking it over then I just dont "need" a 3rd device because the iPad can do everything. But every time I go to cancel my Amazon preorder I end up backing out because "it's only $200".

Yes, $200 isn't pocket change but as an Amazon Prime subscriber ($40/yr if you're a student) then the new Amazon Lending Library + Amazon video library are absolutely amazing. And anyone who thinks the Fire has severe limitations is either a power user or hasnt really evaluated their tablet needs.

So when it comes to iPad 3 then I just dont see what they'll add that will make me say "This is worth investing another $700 into". Figuring out how to annually get users to upgrade a $$600+ tablet is going to be a challenge for Apple and im interested in seeing how they'll pull it off without scaling down or offering different sizes.

 

[Mac.World]

The iPod Touch vulnerable? Have you tried reading things on a 3.5-inch screen? It can be done, but it's way different compared to a 7-inch screen.

Plus I don't believe you can listen to any music on a Fire that hasn't been purchased through Amazon. With an iPod Touch, you can use iTunes to rip CDs or buy music online. Apples and oranges.

Have you tried reading on a 7 inch screen compared to the 10" iPad screen? How about looking at a magazine on a 7" screen compared to the iPad sized screen" I can't stand trying to read things on a dinky 7" tablet. It's a joke and having to constantly scroll left and right, up and down on a 7 inch screen... Ugghhh don't know how people can deal with that.

 

[soco]

But it's a pointless comment from Tim Cook.

Irrespective of what he thinks, as part of his job, just what would you expect him to say, or anyone to say in any company in his position?

It's not pointless in the sense that he's putting it out there that he stands behind his company's products. I like this.

I know it's one of those 'duh' things. Of course he does. But it's nice to see him say it.

 

[jsh1120]

Have you tried reading on a 7 inch screen compared to the 10" iPad screen? How about looking at a magazine on a 7" screen compared to the iPad sized screen" I can't stand trying to read things on a dinky 7" tablet. It's a joke and having to constantly scroll left and right, up and down on a 7 inch screen... Ugghhh don't know how people can deal with that.

That's odd. I've been reading 7" books for years.

 

[soco]

That's odd. I've been reading 7" books for years.

Hah, what a great point!

 

[master-ceo]

iPad has the perfect screen size and I hope that they never change it. iOS is the leader of the pack because its a solid all around device for just about every niche. Music, gaming, writing, reading, etc.. The list goes on.

Everytime I buy a major music app that supports core midi I smile. I watched the iPad grow into the beast I knew it could be back in March 2010.

All apple gotta do is relax a few more rules and its a wrap.

 

[FloatingBones]

Different markets. The Amazon Fire will sell very well to many consumers who don't need or want some of the features the iPad has and the Fire does not. Just as the iPad has been purchased by many consumers who don't need or want the features of a small notebook computer.

The problem is that it's all under the blanket of the Android brand, and that brand continues to get fractured.

It all comes down to "filling the gaps" in one's personal technology profile. The Fire will fill those gaps for many consumers. Such folks may have opted for an iPad but many are simply not willing/able to spend $500-$900 for a device that is laden with features they don't use. That is a potentially huge market but it's not necessarily a market that Apple can penetrate with the iPad.

The truth is that there are many different perspectives to view the shifting marketplace. iOS apps tend to be compatible among all iOS devices; Android devices are not. That will be an insignificant detail for some people, but will be very important for some individuals (and families).

It's more telling that Apple has dropped the price of the iPod Touch to $199 in the face of declining sales and the introduction of the Fire.

Evidently, I haven't seen the numbers you're citing. Can you please cite a source?

The iPad isn't likely to face competition from the Fire but the iPod Touch is extremely vulnerable.

It will affect different consumers in different ways. A businessman who has an iPad will have an incentive to also get an iPod Touch. With both an iPad and a Touch, he has tremendous versatility for serving up Keynote presentations. All of his software -- and his data -- works the same everywhere.

Do not underestimate the value of the single iOS app store, and do not underestimate the vulnerability of the numerous and fractured Android app stores.

But it's a pointless comment from Tim Cook.

Irrespective of what he thinks, as part of his job, just what would you expect him to say, or anyone to say in any company in his position?

Sure seems like a valid comment to me. With iOS devices, your programs and data are portable. With Android, they may or may not be portable.

Can you explain why you think it's pointless?

 

[Diane B]

Truthfully I only use my Touch for music--now since I've had the Ipad 1 since it came out. I carry it all the time for music in car from my own purchased music, ripped CDs, and downloaded music from Rhapsody. I've considered just hanging onto my Ipad 1 for the same purpose when I buy the Ipad 3. I'm guessing my Touch battery will be going or is already though I have a car charger for Ipad/Ipod which makes that not much of an issue. Can't add all that music to the 64GB Ipad I use daily as I don't have the storage room so have to have additional device. The Kindle Fire wouldn't be that--the point about sharing apps among devices is valid for me.

Diane

The iPod Touch vulnerable? Have you tried reading things on a 3.5-inch screen? It can be done, but it's way different compared to a 7-inch screen.

Plus I don't believe you can listen to any music on a Fire that hasn't been purchased through Amazon. With an iPod Touch, you can use iTunes to rip CDs or buy music online. Apples and oranges.

 

[Aspasia]

The December 2011 issue of Consumer Reports rated tablets. They had some very nice things to say about the Kindle Fire (they had tested a preproduction model), but also noted its limitations--which included:

"Fire users will be able to download apps only from Amazon's store and just the limited selection that Amazon has determined work well on the device. You won't be able to access the larger collection of apps in Google's Android Market."

CR went on to say they thought for many consumers, its strengths would outweigh its limitations.

Since the price of the iPod Touch and Kindle are similar, I asked two teens in my family if they would prefer a Kindle Fire or an iPod Touch. Both were emphatic they had no interest in the Fire (too large to carry around was one reason) but would love the Touch. I have to agree with them.

I had recently purchased a 32GB Touch for one of the kids and will pick up another in the next few weeks. As for me, I'll stick with my iPad 2 and look forward to free texting with the kids.

 

[Thetonyk123]

iPad 3>kindle fire

I'd rather pay more for apple quality.

 

[Yr Blues]

I think the iPad is the future of computing if they can get pro apps like Adobe CS on the thing. The Kindle Fire won't even go there.

Also, Netflix isn't going to roll-over and not compete.

 

[jsh1120]

Responses are in color below.

The problem is that it's all under the blanket of the Android brand, and that brand continues to get fractured.

Actually the Fire isn't "under the blanket of the Android brand." In fact I doubt if more than 5% of those who purchase the Fire will even know (or care) what OS the device uses. The "brand" that's being sold is Amazon, not "Android."

Further, the "fracturing" of the Android OS is similarly unimportant. Amazon chose to use a particular kernel and take over further development of the OS and its features on their own. They may or may not be successful in that effort, but they won't fail because the Android OS is "fractured" across various manufacturers simply because customers aren't buying Android, they're buying an Amazon device.



The truth is that there are many different perspectives to view the shifting marketplace. iOS apps tend to be compatible among all iOS devices; Android devices are not. That will be an insignificant detail for some people, but will be very important for some individuals (and families).

And for those for whom it's important Apple will find plenty of customers. But the Apple brand fanatics are not for the most part people who are budget conscious in their technology decisions. And again, it's the budget conscious consumers that Amazon hopes to capture.



Evidently, I haven't seen the numbers you're citing. Can you please cite a source?

The sources for Apple's declining iPod sales are numerous and it's been going on ever since the original iPad was introduced. Here's one of many examples.

"...Yet while Apple’s Mac, iPhone and iPad businesses are booming, sales of the iPod – the Shuffle, Nano, Classic and Touch models – fell 27 per cent year-on-year in its September quarter to 6.6m units. It was the 10th successive quarter of declining sales..."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/3fd597e8-0627-11e1-ad0e-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz1chAkLF6f



It will affect different consumers in different ways. A businessman who has an iPad will have an incentive to also get an iPod Touch. With both an iPad and a Touch, he has tremendous versatility for serving up Keynote presentations. All of his software -- and his data -- works the same everywhere.

[I]Could be. Though there's a much, much larger market of "businessmen" with laptops running Windows. Your logic suggests a bright future for Windows 8 mobile devices.[/I]

 

[Yr Blues]

iPad has the perfect screen size and I hope that they never change it. iOS is the leader of the pack because its a solid all around device for just about every niche. Music, gaming, writing, reading, etc.. The list goes on.

Everytime I buy a major music app that supports core midi I smile. I watched the iPad grow into the beast I knew it could be back in March 2010.

All apple gotta do is relax a few more rules and its a wrap.

I think the iPad could use a smaller sister. 7.85" they were testing seems about right.

They need to have server-side flash support. That way we can have flash content and still have good battery life. Amazon's Whispernet is actually a good idea.

I think there's room for the Kindle Fire. Parents that can't afford an iPad just for children's content will be tops on the list. $500+ is way too much for that demographic. And we all know which movies are the most lucrative.

 

[4DThinker]

The Fire and Amazon's bookstore access to school ebooks (along with the $199 price) may make it a great alternative to a backpack with 30 lbs of school books. Not so much risked, and less to carry than an iPad for a student. That market may be one reason Amazon has already had to increase production just to satisfy pre-order demand. Yes, several other 7" tablets would be as good, except that Amazon's reputation and support add to the buyer confidence needed to stand out from the rest.

 

[Mac.World]

That's odd. I've been reading 7" books for years.

Really? Every book you have read was 7"? Amazing. How about magazines? I'm guessing they were 7" in size too? And I'm guessing your newspapers are that exact size as well?

Not everything you read is a book. Nice try though.

----------

They need to have server-side flash support. That way we can have flash content and still have good battery life. Amazon's Whispernet is actually a good idea.

Not needed. Photon web browser is already out there and allows the user to choose when and if they want Flash content displayed.

 

[jsh1120]

I said, "I've been reading 7" books for years." You said...

Really? Every book you have read was 7"? Amazing.

Reading is a wonderful skill. You should try developing it. Logic is worthwhile, too. Try this one. All white stallions are horses. Are all horses white stallions?

 

[Yr Blues]

Not needed. Photon web browser is already out there and allows the user to choose when and if they want Flash content displayed.

I like Safari. It just needs server-side flash support. Then they can advertise that iPhone has the whole internet available.

 

[FloatingBones]

Responses are in color below.

That's a rather goofy way to respond to a message. It makes it difficult for someone to respond in the ordinary fashion. Why do that?

Actually the Fire isn't "under the blanket of the Android brand." In fact I doubt if more than 5% of those who purchase the Fire will even know (or care) what OS the device uses. The "brand" that's being sold is Amazon, not "Android."

Acually, it's very difficult to hide the branding. I'd bet that Kindle Fire apps will indeed be sold through Amazon's Android App Store.

Further, the "fracturing" of the Android OS is similarly unimportant. Amazon chose to use a particular kernel and take over further development of the OS and its features on their own.

What you have just described -- a kernel of their own -- is the quintessence of fracturing.

What happens when Kindle Fire users try to run the same app on their Android phone and the Fire? Will it work? Will it fail?

What will you be buying in Amazon's Android Appstore? Will it be Fire apps, or will it be apps for other Android devices?

They may or may not be successful in that effort, but they won't fail because the Android OS is "fractured" across various manufacturers simply because customers aren't buying Android, they're buying an Amazon device.

You're just playing language games. It is an Android device, and it will be confusing.

Apple will be happy to point out the inherent confusion of Amazon's forking of the source code with their own version of Android.

The sources for Apple's declining iPod sales are numerous and it's been going on ever since the original iPad was introduced. Here's one of many examples.

"...Yet while Apple’s Mac, iPhone and iPad businesses are booming, sales of the iPod – the Shuffle, Nano, Classic and Touch models – fell 27 per cent year-on-year in its September quarter to 6.6m units. It was the 10th successive quarter of declining sales..."[/qutoe]

In other words, you have no source citing any numbers, and you can't draw a clear correlation to the announcement of the Fire. Thanks for clearly communicating that.

Could be. Though there's a much, much larger market of "businessmen" with laptops running Windows. Your logic suggests a bright future for Windows 8 mobile devices.

Just like the 7.5 phones, the later versions of the Zune were quite well-designed. They never took off. MS will have to do something very different with their new phones to ensure they don't suffer a similar fate.

I do think there is great strength in having documents that can be manipulated and displayed on a whole family of computers from phone to tablet to laptop. MS is way behind on the phone side, and Google is way behind on the laptop side. Both of them are way behind on the tablet side, and the fractured Android marketplace will hamper Google there.

The Fire and Amazon's bookstore access to school ebooks (along with the $199 price) may make it a great alternative to a backpack with 30 lbs of school books. Not so much risked, and less to carry than an iPad for a student. That market may be one reason Amazon has already had to increase production just to satisfy pre-order demand. Yes, several other 7" tablets would be as good, except that Amazon's reputation and support add to the buyer confidence needed to stand out from the rest.

I hadn't noticed that many textbooks were available in Kindle format yet.

Do you really think that 7" tablets will be able to competently read and annotate the big college textbooks?

 

[thewitt]

Fire Apps will be sold through Amazon's Kindle Fire store, and they have modified the OS enough that stock Android apps will not run until they are built specifically for the Fire, and released through the Kindle Fire App Store.

Android is not part of the Fire world, and apps built for the Fire will not run on stock Android devices.