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It is met.

The legal definition of a monopolistic company does not require an economic monopoly in the true sense of the word (see here and here, for instance).
It is not met. I’ve seen that website as well as the government websites. But I suppose we can be arm chair barristers and argue the case in front of the macrumors jury.
It does not prove it.
Though it clearly suggests they saw current antitrust legislation as insufficient.
It was not illegal was the point.
Apple recently being fined by the EU commission according to existing antitrust law also suggests that Apple's practices were not legal but illegal. Though of course the final word hasn't been spoken on that.
Correct. The fine means they didn’t like the outcome. Doesn’t mean apple will wind up by paying it.
I think we can at least agree, that
  1. finding Apple guilty of violating pre-existing antitrust law
  2. enforcing that law in a timely and convincing manner and
  3. having that finding withstand a legal challenge
was deemed as at least "difficult" by the EU.
True. But governments can make any laws they want.(at least they can try)
That's why, given the didn't like such business practices, they resorted to enacting specialised law.
I agree that was a good and correct decision and we probably agree that you disagree.
Yes, we agree that we disagree.
 
So why doesn't Apple just comply by allowing third party stores on equal commercial terms, Spotify to have their "call to action" linking to their web site and just move on, rather than incurring the wrath of regulators and be mired in protracted legal battles?
Because this quickly turns into a terrible user experience. When it’s one or two apps from big publishers do this it’s already annoying. Imagine every paid app you use requires you to go out to their web page, create an account, and give them your credit card info.

Again, developers don’t deserve access to Apple’s customers just because developers want them. They shouldn’t get access to the tools and services Apple provides to reach those customers without compensating Apple. If they don’t like Apple’s terms and conditions, no one is forcing them to develop for Apple.
 
Apple's appstore survives because it is the only one in the town. That is why, in spite of thousands of scam apps, dismissive behavior towards developers, and discriminative behavior, it is still tolerated

Whereas on the Mac, the Mac App Store is just a wasteland of garbage and I haven’t been in there in maybe a year? I think it was to get a redownload of something.

I literally wouldn’t even use a Mac if I was constrained to what’s in and/or allowed by the Mac App Store
 
Yeah, when they initially accepted the iPad as not being a gatekeeper, then included it even though it absolutely doesn’t meet some of the requirements…
The first decision was obviously stupid: the iPad is just a minor variant of the iPhone and so they should be treated together. As I said at the time, not doing that would just leave a giant loophole for Apple to release iProOS, iSOS, iMaxOS, and so on and so bring each branded variant below the threshold.
 
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Nor DMA nor EU nor blablabla.

Apple just wants you to think that is EU or DMA problem. I really think Apple still does not have enough servers to support its AI devices outside the US.
So, in my opinion, they are just making excuses in order to delay the expansion of its AI model.

Do not worry, they want to keep selling as much as they done until now so they'll bring all the features, sooner or later.
 
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LOL...now, there is even less reason to upgrade from the iPhone 14 Pro to the iPhone 16 or even iPhone 17....at least for folks in the EU...
This is how I feel too, I was ready to throw money at Apple to upgrade early from my amazing and not ready to be decommissioned 14 Pro, but there's no reason now if there's no Apple Intelligence feature.

While this sucks, it's fair game for Apple to do this, if they think that this is the best way to make money in the EU then good luck to them, but the reality is that they've built kickass devices that last far longer than their feature gating is making people upgrade, so if there's no feature gating I suspect EU buyer will chill on new purchases.
 
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This is just funny. EU should just pass a law saying all the European nations get all updates first, except the bureaucrats need to approve every feature first and the phones should be free.
 
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This is how I feel too, I was ready to throw money at Apple to upgrade early from my amazing and not ready to be decommissioned 14 Pro, but there's no reason now if there's no Apple Intelligence feature.

While this sucks, it's fair game for Apple to do this, if they think that this is the best way to make money in the EU then good luck to them, but the reality is that they've built kickass devices that last far longer than their feature gating is making people upgrade, so if there's no feature gating I suspect EU buyer will chill on new purchases.
Which is exactly why all the users saying Apple is doing this out off spite are off their rockers. Apple is a publicly traded company. Apple wants to sell more devices. They want to delight customers. They have a fiduciary duty to shareholders - they’re not doing things out of spite or to prove a point.

They’re holding these features back because they have serious concerns about their ability to introduce them and comply with this regulation. Maybe you disagree with their assessment, but unless you work at Apple, you don’t know what private APIs are being called behind the scenes, what user data is needed, etc.
 
This is just funny. EU should just pass a law saying all the European nations get all updates first, except the bureaucrats need to approve every feature first and the phones should be free.
No, this is Europe. The law will say the bureaucrats will only review every feature AFTER it is introduced and if found out of compliance will charge 20% of Apple’s worldwide revenue for daring to institute that feature and will require Apple let competitors copy that feature’s code for free in their own apps and hardware. 🤣
 

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I am no longer bothered by such things. It's just one more thing on a long list. Below features are already NOT available here. Not that I need them, but some day, price and features will no longer match. iPhone base models range from €530 (SE) to €1450 (Promax) incl. VAT.


Apple iOS/iPadOS features NOT available in Austria (and other EU-countries)
https://www.apple.com/ios/feature-availability/

Apple News

Apple News+

Apple News Audio

Apple News+ Puzzles

Apple Wallet: Apple Card

Apple Wallet: Apple Cash

Apple Wallet: Driver’s License and State ID

Apple Wallet: Transit

Dictionary: Thesaurus

Health: Download Health Records to iPhone

Health: Share Health App Data with Healthcare Providers

Health: Organ Donation

Health: Lab Results Highlights and Pinning

Health: Lab Results Highlights and Pinning

Health: Blood Glucose Highlights

Grid Forecast

iTunes Store: TV Shows

Maps: Detailed City Experience

Maps: Directions

Maps: Real-Time Transit

Maps: Transit and Payment Cards in Maps

Maps: Transit Fares

Maps: Cycling

(Maps: Look Around)

Maps: Indoor Maps Airports

Messages: Communication Safety Setting

Messages: Safety Warnings

Quicktype Keyboard: Predictive Typing: Inline Predictions

Reminders: Siri Suggested Reminders

Siri: Neural Text-to-Speech Voice

Siri: Movie Showtime

Siri: On-Device Speech Processing and Offline Requests


Apple macOS Services NOT available in Austria (and other EU-countries)
https://www.apple.com/macos/feature-availability/

all the above stated plus:

Keyboard: Grammar Checking

Keyboard: Predictive Typing: Inline Predictions

Proactive Assistant: Suggested Reminders

Siri: Motorsports

Siri: Movie Information

Siri: Movie Reviews

Siri: Movie Showtimes

Siri: Restaurant Information

Siri: Restaurant Reservations

Siri: Restaurant Reviews

Stocks: Apple News and Top Stories
 
I am no longer bothered by such things. It's just one more thing on a long list. Below features are already NOT available here. Not that I need them, but some day, price and features will no longer match. iPhone base models range from €530 (SE) to €1450 (Promax) incl. VAT.


Apple iOS/iPadOS features NOT available in Austria (and other EU-countries)
https://www.apple.com/ios/feature-availability/

Apple News

Apple News+

Apple News Audio

Apple News+ Puzzles

Apple Wallet: Apple Card

Apple Wallet: Apple Cash

Apple Wallet: Driver’s License and State ID

Apple Wallet: Transit

Dictionary: Thesaurus

Health: Download Health Records to iPhone

Health: Share Health App Data with Healthcare Providers

Health: Organ Donation

Health: Lab Results Highlights and Pinning

Health: Lab Results Highlights and Pinning

Health: Blood Glucose Highlights

Grid Forecast

iTunes Store: TV Shows

Maps: Detailed City Experience

Maps: Directions

Maps: Real-Time Transit

Maps: Transit and Payment Cards in Maps

Maps: Transit Fares

Maps: Cycling

(Maps: Look Around)

Maps: Indoor Maps Airports

Messages: Communication Safety Setting

Messages: Safety Warnings

Quicktype Keyboard: Predictive Typing: Inline Predictions

Reminders: Siri Suggested Reminders

Siri: Neural Text-to-Speech Voice

Siri: Movie Showtime

Siri: On-Device Speech Processing and Offline Requests


Apple macOS Services NOT available in Austria (and other EU-countries)
https://www.apple.com/macos/feature-availability/

all the above stated plus:

Keyboard: Grammar Checking

Keyboard: Predictive Typing: Inline Predictions

Proactive Assistant: Suggested Reminders

Siri: Motorsports

Siri: Movie Information

Siri: Movie Reviews

Siri: Movie Showtimes

Siri: Restaurant Information

Siri: Restaurant Reservations

Siri: Restaurant Reviews

Stocks: Apple News and Top Stories
At least some of that list is available in the EU. I definitely used the indoor airport map feature last time I flew into München and used Maps look around when I was in Prague.

If your argument is “they’re not available everywhere” then a lot of that applies to the US too. Things like driver’s licenses and transit are only available in a limited number of cities/states in the US. They’re still building it out and require the cooperation of city/state partners.
 
Because this quickly turns into a terrible user experience.
So?

👉 So why is it allowed for the Amazon store app, Booking.com, DoorDash, Uber, Ticketmaster, my transport authority's ticketing app and whatnot then? Why aren't they forced to at least accept Apple Pay?
Imagine every paid app you use requires you to go out to their web page, create an account, and give them your credit card info.
Why would they require to go out to their web page?
They could easily use Apple Pay, can't they?

👉 You're completely neglecting the fact that that's reality today for the most popular streaming apps, like Spotify or Netflix. And they don't have any subscription management in-app whatsoever (anymore) - certainly an even worse experience.

The terrible user experience exists on the most popular apps today! Because of Apple. Because these companies (rightfully!) refuse to pay an extortionate 30% payment commission to Apple - when they can do transaction processing for like 5% or so themselves, at a fraction of the Apple's price.

Again, developers don’t deserve access to Apple’s customers just because developers want them
Given how ubiquitous, big and important mobile applications have become, they absolutely deserve it.

Apple does not deserve to monetise customer access in an unregulated and anticompetitive way.
The EU is the first to translate this notion into law and regulation. Other jurisdictions are going to follow.
 
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When it’s one or two apps from big publishers do this it’s already annoying. Imagine every paid app you use requires you to go out to their web page, create an account, and give them your credit card info.
I definitely agree that a more "centralised" approach to transaction/payment processing can be useful, rather than having every developer cook up their own system or integration.

It would be useful, if there was an aggregator of sorts that enabled convenient transaction processing for developers, without customers having to register separately.

That's basically what we have with Apple's in-app purchasing system for digital content.
And yes, Apple is in a good position to do it safely, securely and conveniently for users and developers alike.

👉 It's just that Apple are grossly overcharging at least large third-party developers. They're charging a 30% commission rate, when others can do transaction processing at single-digit cost cost/commission rates (as evidence by payment card commission pricing, and competitors like Fastspring or Paddle).

And no, the biggest developers of the most popular apps/services (e.g. Netflix, Spotify) don't need or require any "visibility" or additional promotion of their services provided by Apple. They can do very well without that being bundled into the commission rate.

I have no doubt that a major motive in advocating and passing the DMA were Apple's commission rates.
Had Apple reduced their in-app purchase commission rates to a more reasonable and competitive 5-10% or so - and not restricted communicating and linking outside purchase options, we may not even have gotten to where we are today. The DMA may not even have required app installation from third-party sources and more of the big developers would be showing good-will towards Apple and happily be paying Apple's commission rates. The EU may not even have passed a Digital Markets Act at all, with the possible exception of some data portability and interoperability requirements.

👉 Apple however - instead of providing a competitive transaction processing service - chose to go the road of greed and dictating developers how they're allowed to communicate and transact with consumers.

No wonder the EU brought the double 🔨 hammer on them as they did (with their 2 billion fine and the DMA)
 
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My point is that a lot of people are already used to not getting what Apple puts on one side of the scale at its keynotes, but paying full price which fills the other side of the scale.

So it's not a big drama for users not to get Apple Intelligence, unless the old media makes a drama out of it.
 
PS:

I definitely agree that a more "centralised" approach to transaction/payment processing can be useful, rather than having every developer cook up their own system or integration.

It would be useful, if there was an aggregator of sorts that enabled convenient transaction processing for developers, without customers having to register separately.

That's basically what we have with Apple's in-app purchasing system for digital content.
And yes, Apple is in a good position to do it safely, securely and conveniently for users and developers alike.

👉 It's just that Apple are grossly overcharging at least large third-party developers. They're charging a 30% commission rate, when others can do transaction processing at single-digit cost cost/commission rates (as evidence by payment card commission pricing, and competitors like Fastspring or Paddle).

And no, the biggest developers of the most popular apps/services (e.g. Netflix, Spotify) don't need or require any "visibility" or additional promotion of their services provided by Apple. They can do very well without that being bundled into the commission rate.

Had Apple reduced their in-app purchase commission rates to a more reasonable and competitive 5-10% or so - and not restricted communicating and linking outside purchase options, we may not even have gotten to where we are today. The DMA may not even have required app installation from third-party sources and more of the big developers would be happily paying Apple's commission rates.
Developers are ALWAYS going to complain about fees - even if it’s 1%. When the App Store launched 30% was considered very generous - physical stores charged 70%. Now 15% is considered an outrageous form of rent-seeking.

Look at credit cards - all merchants gripe about single digit percentage fees there - most merchants weren’t alive/don’t remember life without credit credits and don’t realize the value and increased business they bring - just see it as a drag on profit.

Do I agree with everything Apple has done? Of course not. Do I think they’ve hurt themselves? Absolutely. Personally, I think they should have required in-app purchase/subscription as an OPTION but allowed apps to say “if you buy from us here it’ll be cheaper”. (After a review to make sure they’re not scam/frauds, assuming that would be feasible).

But, as I’ve made it very (and I’m sure for most of you, annoyingly) clear that I don’t think governments should be able to tell a company with ~30% of the market how to run their business. If they had 75% sure - regulate away. But the competition the EU claims Apple is stifling has an option with majority of users - they just don’t want to use it because Apple’s users are “better.”
 
There are very few companies I trust to store my credit card data securely - and certainly not most third party developers or alternate app stores. Would much rather Apple handle all of that for me.
Do you pay with cash in restaurants and shops or use CC? Do you shop everything from Apple, all your necessities for life? In my country, businesses cannot store CC information, even Apple.
 
That's complete malarkey.

Physical stores NEVER got 70% on software. They would have been lucky to get anywhere close to 15%, it was more typically 3% to 5%.

Apple's 30% is and has always been highway robbery, the only way they get away with it is their monopoly on iDevice app distribution.
Um - you are absolutely wrong. Here’s a blog post from 2008.

While the numbers vary greatly, a software arrangement would have revenues split roughly:

  • Retail store – 50 percent
  • Distributor – 10 percent
  • Publisher – 30 to 35 percent
  • Developer – 5 to 10 percent

Don’t trust a random blog post? Ok - here’s AppleInsider

The deal was the now familiar — and now heavily criticized — one where Apple takes a 30% cut of all sales. This was not remotely criticized at the time, it instead got applause

That would be because in 2007, developers chiefly sold software through retail stores. And any of them would tell you that after boxing, shipping, and the retailer's cut, you would be lucky to see 30% of the retail price yourself.
 
Keyboard: Grammar Checking

Keyboard: Predictive Typing: Inline Predictions
I think many don't realize, how long we have to wait for localization of features outside the US. I can live without most of them. But the two above, are really painful. The typing experience has not changed in meaningful ways in a long time. Dictation has improved somewhat, but typing not so much.
 
I think many don't realize, how long we have to wait for localization of features outside the US. I can live without most of them. But the two above, are really painful. The typing experience has not changed in meaningful ways in a long time. Dictation has improved somewhat, but typing not so much.

If it makes you feel better, the grammar, predictive text and dictation features continue to be really rather poor.

You're not missing a ton ... other than a lot of frustration at times
 
Developers are ALWAYS going to complain about fees - even if it’s 1%. When the App Store launched 30% was considered very generous - physical stores charged 70%. Now 15% is considered an outrageous form of rent-seeking.
Things may have been different, when you had to go to a shop to buy a CD with software. When the iPhone was introduced, software distribution over the internet was already well established. So I'm not sure if it's useful to make a comparison here.

Paddle, a one-stop shop for payment, invoicing and VAT, charges around 10% on a 10 USD payment. That is their pay as you go plan. You can probably get a better rate when you contact their sales team. If you take that into account, the Apple terms don't sound that attractive anymore.
 
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If it makes you feel better, the grammar, predictive text and dictation features continue to be really rather poor.

You're not missing a ton ... other than a lot of frustration at times
Haha, it does make me feel a little better. Maybe there is just no panacea for typing on a small touchscreen.
 
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[…]

👉 It's just that Apple are grossly overcharging at least large third-party developers. They're charging a 30% commission rate, when others can do transaction processing at single-digit cost cost/commission rates (as evidence by payment card commission pricing, and competitors like Fastspring or Paddle).

[…]
The word overcharging, like overpriced, is subjective. It shouldn’t be the function of government to interfere in a free market. Yes, it is a free market. Nobody has to use the App Store. The app store is apples property. Etc. there is no duopoly. There is no monopoly. (Don’t know if I got all of the talking points)
 
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