Apple Pay and Smaller Business NFC Terminals

[ZebraDude]

This was cut from a article in Forbes. I attached the link at the bottom. If this is true this is WONDERFUL news!


"Besides Panera, is anyone going to accept Apple Pay?


First, a clarification. There is no “accepting Apple Pay.” You may have read an article or five suggesting that retailers don’t plan to support Apple Pay, implying there is some special thing they have to do to work with Apple. What a retailer needs is nothing more than a NFC-equipped point-of-sale terminal. Those aren’t everywhere yet. Apple says 220,000 merchants have them; First Data says that’s out of 8 million retail points of sale in the U.S. But if the NFC reader is “live” it supports Apple Pay, whether or not the retailer has a deal with Apple Pay.

That said, forward-thinking retailers made a point of being ready to support the technology. McDonald’s, Subway, Macy’s, Whole Foods, Walgreens (along with subsidiary Duane Reade) and others are part of the first wave. The above slide from last week’s iPad event show others who will be rolling out support over the coming months."










http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrog...g-to-be-great-why-the-skeptics-have-it-wrong/

 

[Squid7085]

I'm not sure if Apple is brilliant or they should have better explained what is going on here.

On one hand, if this succeeds, retailers will start specifically saying "We Accept Apple Pay" and the concept of a contactless card reader would basically be owned by Apple (from a public POV)

On the other hand, they haven't done a very good job saying "If you see this symbol, it means it will work with Apple Pay" That symbol of course being the sideways WiFi looking thing. People not specifically seeing " Pay" might not use it because they don't understand that they can.

I would not be surprised if Apple tries to get a program going where retailers can place a little " Pay" sticker under their lineup of accepted credit cards. They frankly would be stupid not to.

 

[Kauai]

I would not be surprised if Apple tries to get a program going where retailers can place a little " Pay" sticker under their lineup of accepted credit cards. They frankly would be stupid not to.

I'm going to be looking for this now, hadn't even thought of it but it makes so much sense!

I've got to agree that besides those of us who actually visit this forum and/or are interested in technology, most people have no idea what NFC is or how Apple Pay even works, - it's going to be really confusing for most people I think until they get use to using it.

 

[0970373]

I'm not sure if Apple is brilliant or they should have better explained what is going on here.

On one hand, if this succeeds, retailers will start specifically saying "We Accept Apple Pay" and the concept of a contactless card reader would basically be owned by Apple (from a public POV)

On the other hand, they haven't done a very good job saying "If you see this symbol, it means it will work with Apple Pay" That symbol of course being the sideways WiFi looking thing. People not specifically seeing " Pay" might not use it because they don't understand that they can.

I would not be surprised if Apple tries to get a program going where retailers can place a little " Pay" sticker under their lineup of accepted credit cards. They frankly would be stupid not to.

I was thinking about this exact thing. I'm going to go with the former. While any NFC terminal will work, Apple only makes $ off of Apple Pay merchants, correct? (I could be wrong.) So they want to push retailers into signing up because people who don't know better (because they didn't explain it) will ask if they take "ApplePay."

And then it will become a thing that "ApplePay" will become a verb. Merchants will start putting that little ApplePay sticker in the window to show that they accept it. restaurants will start using mobile terminals (like they do overseas) so that you can just ApplePay (see what I did there) at your table, split the check, etc.

And then we will all have AppleChips implanted into our skin. The End.

Also, all the banks who have not yet signed up to support this will be rushing. People are actually considering switching their banks so they can use this feature. That is amazing influence, IMO.

 

[rorschach]

It will work with any terminal that has NFC enabled. No special hardware or support is required. I used it on a random vending machine today that supports PayPass.

It says right on the Apple Pay website:

I'm sure they'll get merchants to have the Apple Pay logo displayed so that it's very clear to everyone. But rest assured, any place that accepts NFC/contactless parents accepts Apple Pay.

 

[3rdiguy]

That would be cool if Square updated their tiny reader to have nfc and be ApplePay compatible

 

[terraphantm]

It will work with any terminal that has NFC enabled. No special hardware or support is required. I used it on a random vending machine today that supports PayPass.

It says right on the Apple Pay website:

Image

I'm sure they'll get merchants to have the Apple Pay logo displayed so that it's very clear to everyone. But rest assured, any place that accepts NFC/contactless parents accepts Apple Pay.

I don't know how many people visit the website. Apple should put out an ad that emphasizes how to use Apple Pay

 

[AlphaHumanus]

it will work with any terminal that has nfc enabled. No special hardware or support is required. I used it on a random vending machine today that supports paypass.

It says right on the apple pay website:

image

i'm sure they'll get merchants to have the apple pay logo displayed so that it's very clear to everyone. But rest assured, any place that accepts nfc/contactless parents accepts apple pay.

rp?

 

[scaredpoet]

It will work with any terminal that has NFC enabled. No special hardware or support is required.

UNLESS the merchant goes through great lengths to specifically block ApplePay (and Google Wallet). Which is unfortunately a thing.

 

[deeddawg]

While any NFC terminal will work, Apple only makes $ off of Apple Pay merchants, correct?

Nope. The merchant actually doesn't have anything to do with Apple in the transaction. Those who "signed up" essentially only committed to having NFC enabled terminals at all (most) their outletts and (theoretically) training their people to not give you a blank stare when you say Apple Pay.

Where Apple is integrated into the transaction is at the BANK and the Network (Visa/MC/etc).

When you pay with Apple pay the tokenized transaction flows from the NFC reader through the payment network to your bank. The network validates the encrypted token with Apple and the bank sends the approval back up the chain to the register. It says Approved, the checkout person says thank you, and off you go on your way. The bank pays a small fee to Apple for the transaction. They're expecting the reduced fraud costs to offset the cost of the fees, net effect everyone wins. Except the crooks.

(This is a simplified version, for more details look at the Apple Pay section here: https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/iOS_Security_Guide_Oct_2014.pdf

 

[heisenberg123]

I have seen youtube videos of a Canadian with an American Chase Visa or MC using it on a Canadian Coca-Cola vending machine so that alone is 100% proof their is no setup on the terminal required if the terminal accepts NFC payments

 

[0970373]

Nope. The merchant actually doesn't have anything to do with Apple in the transaction. Those who "signed up" essentially only committed to having NFC enabled terminals at all (most) their outletts and (theoretically) training their people to not give you a blank stare when you say Apple Pay.

Where Apple is integrated into the transaction is at the BANK and the Network (Visa/MC/etc).

When you pay with Apple pay the tokenized transaction flows from the NFC reader through the payment network to your bank. The network validates the encrypted token with Apple and the bank sends the approval back up the chain to the register. It says Approved, the checkout person says thank you, and off you go on your way. The bank pays a small fee to Apple for the transaction. They're expecting the reduced fraud costs to offset the cost of the fees, net effect everyone wins. Except the crooks.

(This is a simplified version, for more details look at the Apple Pay section here: https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/iOS_Security_Guide_Oct_2014.pdf

You could have easily just said, "No, the banks are the ones who make money, not the retailers." lol

 

[deeddawg]

You could have easily just said, "No, the banks are the ones who make money, not the retailers." lol

Yes, I certainly could have just said that...

but then I'd have been wrong.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I was thinking about this exact thing. I'm going to go with the former. While any NFC terminal will work, Apple only makes $ off of Apple Pay merchants, correct? (I could be wrong.) So they want to push retailers into signing up because people who don't know better (because they didn't explain it) will ask if they take "ApplePay."

Apple make their money from the banks. The merchants pay nothing to Apple.

 

[0970373]

Yes, I certainly could have just said that...

but then I'd have been wrong.

haha. I meant that Apple is making money from the banks, not the retailers.

 

[mofunk]

Business 101: Every time you swipe your credit cards, banks get a fee. If you are a merchant, you have to pay for those swiping devices. Any person going into business should have researched that part. Amex cost more than Visa/Mastercard in businesses.

As for Apple, their products are already being sold in stores. If you notice, the retail Apps that are most popular received ApplePay first. Starbucks, Panera, etc already allow iPhone/ipod users to scan their iOS devices in stores. Passbook I thought was interesting. Every time I drove by a Starbucks or Kroger their App icon would pop up on my lock screen without any wifi available especially on my iPod touch 4th gen. So its not surprising to see those merchants adapting to Apple Pay. Both Apple and Businesses will benefit with using ApplePay.


Last month I saw where Target changed all of their credit card devices. Only problem that I saw was that the NFC is that you cannot remove it from the pedestal. If you are in a wheelchair, you cannot see the screen.


@OP Everything is too early to call. I bet that businesses are looking at how ApplePay will increase traffic to their business. With all the security breaches in the past years, they will also look at that. I'm also betting that Visa/Mastercard are looking to cash in too, not just Apple. It's important to keep up with technology and to give consumers the best buying experience. It's an incentive for customers to shop.

 

[deeddawg]

I bet that businesses are looking at how ApplePay will increase traffic to their business. With all the security breaches in the past years, they will also look at that.

I'd venture to guess that the payment industry will end up offering lower fees for EMV tokenized transactions (which Apple Pay is using) as an incentive to get merchants to adopt it and thereby reduce fraud losses. It'll likely end up costing merchants less to take Apple Pay than a swipe+sign, not sure if there will be an incentive for chip+pin vs chip+sign yet though.

What will then be interesting is how the industry will incent the public to use Apple Pay (or any alternate tokenized transaction technology).

 

[Seannyb]

It will work with any terminal that has NFC enabled. No special hardware or support is required. I used it on a random vending machine today that supports PayPass.

It says right on the Apple Pay website:

Image

I'm sure they'll get merchants to have the Apple Pay logo displayed so that it's very clear to everyone. But rest assured, any place that accepts NFC/contactless parents accepts Apple Pay.

Not so fast...My local Home Depot has the capability to accept Apple Pay (or any other form of NFC payment) but they have them switched off for some reason. My phone recognized the terminal, everything went through and then it said "card declined". Didn't have anything to do with the card as I pulled out the same card that is in Passbook, swiped it and it worked.

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That would be cool if Square updated their tiny reader to have nfc and be ApplePay compatible

Check this out...

http://www.wired.com/2014/09/square-bitcoin/

 

[boltjames]

Not so fast...My local Home Depot has the capability to accept Apple Pay (or any other form of NFC payment) but they have them switched off for some reason. My phone recognized the terminal, everything went through and then it said "card declined". Didn't have anything to do with the card as I pulled out the same card that is in Passbook, swiped it and it worked

Same situation here for me yesterday in Hong Kong.

I am an American with a US iPhone 6 and I added my Visa and American Express cards to Passbook quite easily. Leaving Hong Kong airport yesterday I visited three shops including a McDonald's and two no-name sandwich joints and in all three instances the NFC terminals accepted the Apple Pay handshake but in the end declined the transaction.

So it takes both an active NFC reader and some back end integration in order to truly make Apple Pay function properly.

BJ

 

[yg17]

Not so fast...My local Home Depot has the capability to accept Apple Pay (or any other form of NFC payment) but they have them switched off for some reason. My phone recognized the terminal, everything went through and then it said "card declined". Didn't have anything to do with the card as I pulled out the same card that is in Passbook, swiped it and it worked.

----------



Check this out...

http://www.wired.com/2014/09/square-bitcoin/

Did you try ApplePay with a different card?

Same situation here for me yesterday in Hong Kong.

I am an American with a US iPhone 6 and I added my Visa and American Express cards to Passbook quite easily. Leaving Hong Kong airport yesterday I visited three shops including a McDonald's and two no-name sandwich joints and in all three instances the NFC terminals accepted the Apple Pay handshake but in the end declined the transaction.

So it takes both an active NFC reader and some back end integration in order to truly make Apple Pay function properly.

BJ

No it doesn't.

I have a Citi MasterCard registered in Apple Pay. For whatever reason, it will not work at the vending machine here at work. If I swipe it, it works. If I use ApplePay with my CapitalOne Visa, it works. ApplePay works with my Citi card elsewhere.

I don't know what the problem is. Citi doesn't know what the problem is. But it's not that the vending machine doesn't take ApplePay, because they clearly do. It's not that they don't take MasterCard, because they clearly do. There is definitely some issue here, but it's not because the vendor hasn't done something specifically to support ApplePay because there's nothing they need to do. This is also proven out there with the videos of people using ApplePay internationally with US credit cards.