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Apple to Collect 27% Commission on Third-Party App Payment Systems in the Netherlands
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COOOKI COOOKIE CATS COOOOOOOO KIES CATS
Why you dont give your cookie latte for your cat eat it?
Copyright here is irrelevant. Furthermore no one is copying anything.
This is Trust issue. In a particular if people and other kinds of entities have the right to distribute and sell their OWN properties with no other condition but obeying the law.
It has always been assumed that this is the case and it remained unchallenged decades and decades.
The iPhone / App Store / App combined with Apple policies and market share challenges this assumption. Case in case the software programs created by the digital services.
What it is used to create these assets should be irrelevant to such right!!! But it is not in this case, that is why is so confusing at times.
This is Trust issue. In a particular if people and other kinds of entities have the right to distribute and sell their OWN properties with no other condition but obeying the law.
It has always been assumed that this is the case and it remained unchallenged decades and decades.
The iPhone / App Store / App combined with Apple policies and market share challenges this assumption. Case in case the software programs created by the digital services.
What it is used to create these assets should be irrelevant to such right!!! But it is not in this case, that is why is so confusing at times.
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If anyone is interested the Syllabus of Google LLC v. Oracle America, Inc. is online and shows details that should be kept in mind when using it as an example.
As one article put it "The Supreme Court ruling was a mixed bag that many observers are still parsing. In a 6-2 decision, justices sided with Google and its argument that the company’s copying of 11,500 lines of code from Oracle’s Java in the Android operating system was fair use. Great! At the same time, though, the court appeared to be operating under the assumption that APIs are copyrightable."
How the Supreme Court saved the software industry from API copyrights give a summation that mere mortals can read. Despite the title the court didn't throw out the idea that APIs were copyrightable - in fact the Supreme Court ignored that and went straight to Fair Use.
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They company’s not run by armchair jocks such as me and you
Agreed. And thankfully so. I would have told them all to go F themselves long ago.
Walmart couldn’t survive without Procter and gamble, unilever, or General Mills. That’s three vendors that if either one stopped working with Walmart,the biggest big box retailer in the US wouldn’t have enough product on the shelves to be able to get customers through the door. Businesses rely on each other all the time and they can make or break One another. Your premise holds no water. P&G or the others may take a hit, but people will still be able to buy Tide detergent or Dove bar soap elsewhere.
But please, if you're able to provide an example of an entirely self-succitenet business, please do. That is, a business that researched and developed its own product, without anyone's prior research as a jumping off point, a business that manufactures that product, that distributes it with its on transportation company, that sells it in its own stores that only sell its products. Please, show me this mythical self-sufficient enterprise that has achieved what no other has. Does it train its software and hardware engineers from birth so as not to rely on other to pay for education? Does this company mine its own resources on its own land for the components and resources to not rely those vendors? Does it use water from its own aquifer so as not to pay a water vendor? Does it generate its own electricity to not rely on an energy vendor? Does it use its own private roads, rail lines, or transmission lines with their own rights of way so as not to use transport infrastructure subsidized by others? Finally, if a their is such a company that exists, how has it been able to completely vertical integrate without running afoul of anti-trust laws?
Apple provides and maintains the marketplace, but it is developers that make that marketplace successful by engaging with it and selling on it. One isn’t successful without the other, and Apple is going to continue to get flack until they properly acknowledge it and start treating developers like partners and not cash cows to be milked. As of right, a large enough swath of developers do not see Apple as fair, and until they do, Apple will continue to run into legal and regulatory issues. Apple needs to entice developers to continue to use the App Store, but every action they take seems designed to make developers more and more hesitant.
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The thing is game companies treat their programmer like dirt and yet year after year they keep going and keep treating their programmers like dirt. Can you say "EA', neighbor? /s
Oh sorry, I didn't know we're advocating for a race to the bottom./s
Nike used sweatshops in the 90s, is the lesson we were all supposed to learn from that was that sweatshops were fine and all businesses that can use them should? It doesn't seem that's the message the world took from that revelation.
One company's malfeasance doesn't excuse another's.
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It isn't just "one company". Team Bondi (LA Noir), Activision/Blizzard, EA, and many other engage(d) in unrealistic "crunch time" and "encourage" them to work overtime off the clock and other insanity.Oh sorry, I didn't know we're advocating for a race to the bottom./s
Nike used sweatshops in the 90s, is the lesson we were all supposed to learn from that was that sweatshops were fine and all businesses that can use them should? It doesn't seem that's the message the world took from that revelation.
One companies malfeasance doesn't excuse another's.
The customer isn't having a good time of it either as they go on what some trailer at EA showed and pre order the game ignoring the fact that what they saw may not resemble the game that actually comes out. Heck, even when physical goods are with that pre order they may not be as promised as seen with the whole Fallout 76 Duffle bag Nuka Dark Rum mess not to mention the moldy helmets.
Heck as Many American businesses treat their employees like crap shows this is a problem is endemic to the entire American big business culture.
Devs should exit from apple or unionize. Remember no one is forced to develop for apple, it’s completely voluntary.Oh sorry, I didn't know we're advocating for a race to the bottom./s
Nike used sweatshops in the 90s, is the lesson we were all supposed to learn from that was that sweatshops were fine and all businesses that can use them should? It doesn't seem that's the message the world took from that revelation.
One company's malfeasance doesn't excuse another's.
Yeah, really seems to be an apparent lack of governmental regulation there in the U.S.
Turns out lobbying money works really well to control the narratives and law making.
America is bought and paid for by corporate interests
That’s why it’s important to elect representatives that reflect your specific interests.
But yeah money walks and talks…been like that for quite some time.
Pretty hard for that to result in much, for many folks, with how gerrymandered things have become.
Such a mess
Bipartisan support for it.
Big tech is not popular in either party.
Lobbying your way out of it only works if you haven’t pissed off both sides extensively (and differently!)
All of this is why it’s so crazy Apple thinks they’re just going to prance around the world and piss off government after government and not have any repercussions ever
Of course we know the one they will never piss off… China.
Even though they are the most valuable company on the planet, one single jurisdiction can literally bring them to their knees overnight. It’s actually kind of funny and ironic.
Eh, it's unpopular for different reasons. Republicans hate it because they claim it censors them. Democrats hate it because they claim it doesn't censor enough. Plus some Dems (California) support Big Tech, while some Republicans are reflexively allergic to any regulation other than abortion. This makes me question whether the two sides will be able to come together and pass anything, especially since both sides have much bigger priorities with the midterms coming up.
+1 for that. The upcoming Trump app will be a huge headache for Apple. One thing that makes Apple different from the rest of Big Tech is just how egregious their behavior is, though. Facebook, Google, and Amazon hurt small businesses and individuals, mostly. Meanwhile Apple extorts its peer companies. The difference is that a small seller screwed over by Amazon can't really do anything, but the companies upset at Apple can actually lobby Congress themselves. So in the end it comes down to whose lobbyists are stronger.
I can see why they would piss of US government-it's dysfunctional. Pissing off the EU government, though? Stupid, stupid, stupid. You would think they would, short of changing their actual policies, at least adjust their messaging so that they at least acknowledge regulators' concerns. But nope, it's the "Your'e holding it wrong" attitude through and through.
I think it's notable that China, even as it has had its own tech crackdown, hasn't come down on Apple at all. No "App Store Competition" bill there, no sir. It would be quite entertaining to see Apple's reaction if they did, though. That would probably be the only possible thing that would get Apple to course-correct on this.
Google for the Apple Tim Cook China deal
Sounds like they made a long term deal.
Edit: Link to article
Keep in mind, China absolutely cracks down on Apple when they want to (removing an App, etc)
I would also not be surprised at all if there is stuff the China has Apple do…quietly in the background
Everybody needs to be a bit more skeptical.
What we actually hear about in stuff like this is usually just the tip of the iceberg
Apple is not going to do anything to jeopardize the China connection.
The entire company depends upon it.
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No point you’ve made, no argument you’ve presented has refuted any of what I have already said. It is a problem larger than Apple, but that doesn’t mean Apple is above scrutiny. I agree we should be scrutinizing other companies and industries as well, but none of that entitles Apple to a pass or even a temporary reprieve for their malpractice. Apple isn’t an effect of the problem, it is one of the causes, and just like the other causes, should be properly scrutinized and held accountable as needed.
I was wondering if that was why China has left them alone. I would love (or hate) to see what was included in that deal.
IF any of those companies went out, Walmart would sell the next one up. If all of them went out, which would be very unlikely to happen. They would sell you more foreign made substitute products. Because there would be no US based ones, and they would have to find whatever they need from the U.K or EU or in China, Canada, etc.
I'm sure you understand very well a business may need supplies or materials from another business. But, if push comes to shove you make it yourself (and your free to do so). You source the resources/raw materials, build a factory, staff it, ship it and supply it yourself. If you think for one minute any business goes into business fully dependent on any one other business you're mistaken. Apple didn't build their iPhone for developers to jump in and sell their stuff on. They built it because they wanted to and could make something better than what was already out there.
Not every business will have say a store they operate directly. With the internet, it has changed where you can get products directly from the manufacture though. But, 3M comes to mind, Dupont. Any pharmaceutical company. Maybe even GE (General Electric). Fully self sufficient isn't the point of what I was saying. Just that they didn't go into business fully dependent on one other business to survive. And when push comes to shove, you can get what you need via other means. If you wish to continue having that business do what it does, and you lose a vendor or two or all.
If you develop an app, you should be doing so for many platforms so if one goes away... If you built and app to only run from Apple's Appstore, you're an idiot.
Oil companies lease the land usually from the government. Or if they can purchase it outright.
Same for mining. Say for gold, you purchase the land mine it and sell the raw materials. If your into Diamonds then the same holds true there. They source it (raw), and through their chain of businesses take that raw diamond and turn it into jewelry. Can be the same business that owns and operates the entire process, De beers comes to mind.
Sometimes, helps if it is near by. If not, bring it the trucks and purchase the natural resource from whomever wishes to sell it to you.
Utility is usually a heavily regulated industry. So your options here are few if you want it off the pole. You can setup a power station, say natural gas, solar, wind, diesel generators, etc. If you're GE, you can do this with your own equipment.
Again, usually stuff that is already there and provided by the government(s) of where ever you maybe. If not, and you have to either build your own road if there is none. Say if you're getting timber from a new area in the Amazon or something terrible like that. You either own or rent heavy machinery to get what you need done. Purchase the rights to do so from whatever local gov't you need etc.
Again, depends on what they do. Oil companies, only so many. Mostly from individual nations. Even so the price is pretty much the same across the board. Only local taxes making much of the price differences.
Which is why my previous point of Apple should stop selling anything other than Apple's own stuff on the AppStore. To see how much success they bring to Apple or themselves. Are people buying the phone because of the developers or because Apple makes a great phone? I say the great phone. That came first, we all know this without an Appstore. People bought it up. I'm not discrediting the store and what value developers bring. But, it started with Apple, not the developers.
30% was known from the start. They all knew what the Cost of Doing Business was with Apple before signing up. If any felt they didn't agree with the terms, they didn't have to develop for it.
EPIC and a handful of others. Most developers don't pay Apple anything. The ones that are complaining make an F Ton of money from the store and want to live rent free.
Made up legal and regulatory issues. Let's get to the actual making and upholding of said rules first before getting to the end. At least in the US, nothing is signed yet. And Apple can challenge it all the way up to a very Pro Business SCOTUS. All I've seen so far from the EU or Asia is a 3rd party payment option. Still allowing Apple to collect commissions. So, yeah......
They do, with the millions and millions of users that they sell their devices too. They are enticed by selling to them, very enticed.
Then pull out. Take your toys and go home. I'm fine with that.
Sadly thanks to gerrymandering and voters that really don't pay attention or vote on biases rather than issue many times you can run a brain damaged chimp and it would win. Dead Man Wins City Election In California; Female Rival Calls Foul and Dead Republican candidate wins seat in North Dakota after losing battle with COVID-19 show just how off the wall gonzo it can get. United States - the land of the free, the home of the brave, and all too often the country of the really, really, really dumb.
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Every two years I am reminded of Schoolhouse Rock's Three Ring Government which uses a three ring circus to represent the government. It is really bad every four years and there are times I wonder how in the world we get anything passed. The two parties are like that old Tex Avery cartoon The First Bad Man where two Texan cavemen are totally polite to each other as they bash each other in the head. Thanks to all the mud slinging it is less a vote for who you want and more of who belongs to my party or which of these two bozos do I think will so the least amount of damage?
I'm not taking the time to explain brand loyalty to you and why replacing P&G or Unilever with another vendor won't work, but just know that we're not talking about some dime-a-dozen, bottom shelf, no-name products. Together those two companies account for the vast majority of numerous retail categories, HBA and household cleaning being just two examples. If people can't find Tide at Walmart, they will go to Target or another store where they can buy Tide and do all their other shopping at once. Even if Walmart was able to secure a deal with a third big vendor like Henkel, most of Henkel's brands are licensed to other companies like P&G and Unilever in the U.S., so Walmart couldn't sell Henkel brands under their recognizable names anyway. Marketing research tells us most consumers won't just swap their preferred product out for another in the same category, regardless of how similar the product is, and especially if they can get their preferred product elsewhere; just ask Pepsi why it's never been able to outperform CocaCola.
There are far too many flaws in the argument presented to bother responding in this forum, not to mention that my argument is being selectively extrapolated in order to make conjectures and support weak assumptions, rather than responded to in whole. I don't have the time, energy, or will to teach a business course through MacRumors, and especially not to anyone who is too concerned with being correct to acknowledge reality.
Walmart knows how to properly leverage it's market power without overstepping, so that big vendors always feel the cost of doing business is worth the reward. They were hard lessons for Walmart to learn, and many they still haven't, but the progress they have made is why you don't see Walmart going to court with vendors or governments these days nearly as much as Apple faces their developers, vendors, and governments. Walmart had their time in the negative limelight already, and while still far from perfect, have made corrections to many of their poor business practices. Apple is still fighting tooth and nail to keep a status quo that favors them and spites Apple's developers and other business partners.
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Really, did they?
Did Apple build these iPhones - or did Foxconn? And what do you think is going is happen, if, say tomorrow, Foxconn decides not to honor its contract with Apple and not build any Apple products anymore?
How many relevant platforms are there to develop for, for mobile apps?
Could you give a list?
Yeah, and it sold so "well", that they reduced the price by 200 USD just weeks after launch.
Just before the holiday season. Without having a successor product available.
? When did Apple ever feel the - hugely uncharacteristic - need to cut one of its brand new product's prices by 200$ or a third (!) of the sticker price within weeks after release?
? Also, do you seriously believe that the majority of people are buying new iPhones for "only" or "mainly" the very same reasons today as they did back 15 years ago? Because it's a great phone... and yeah, the huge app eco system only some kind of afterthought?
? Also, why did Apple feel they needed to - in another hugely uncharacteristic move for them - pre-announce their SDK through an open letter on their web site (!), outside of their WWDC or Macworld schedule?
Because they had a "great phone" that people were buying in droves for its sheer greatness without third-party native apps, which it wasn't intended to have in the first place?
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