Apple Watch international carrier band compatibility

[patent10021]

I am overseas and want to buy the ceramic S5. Problem is all the watches are sold as cellular versions now.

Next year if I want to sell my watch in North America I might be stuck with the watch because the watch's cellular won't work in North America.

Is the restriction due to cellular type or simply software?

 

[dave006]

It is hardware and not a simple software issue. There are multiple versions of the Apple Watch 3/4/5. To cover the LTE and UMTS bands used around the world, there are two separate models for Apple Watch Series 5, and three for Apple Watch Series 3.2 They have been optimized for use in the country of purchase, and not all models work in all countries or regions. There is no single model that supports roaming worldwide.

Here is a link where you can find where your Apple Watch (GPS + Cellular) may overlap and where where you are currently located and also still work when you want to sell your watch next year in North America.

Link: https://www.apple.com/watch/cellular/

Dave

 

[patent10021]

I'm not sure how to interpret that list. Normally speaking about cellular compatibility, Japan is always compatible with North America e.g. It's easy for Japanese to roam in North America and vice versa.

As we can see in these two lists some of the bands overlap and some don't. So does this mean anything?

Btw, why are many numbers skipped? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8 , 18?

In this list Japan is :

• LTE
• 1 (2100 MHz)
• 2 (1900 MHz)
• 3 (1800 MHz)
• 4 (AWS)
• 5 (850 MHz)
• 7 (2600 MHz)
• 8 (900 MHz)
• 18 (800 MHz)
• 19 (800 MHz)
• 20 (800 DD)
• 25 (1900 MHz)
• 26 (800 MHz)
• 39 (TD 1900)
• 40 (TD 2300)
• 41 (TD 2500)
• 66 (AWS-3)
• UMTS
• 2100 MHz
• 1900 MHz
• 1700/2100 MHz
• 850 MHz
• 900 MHz

Canada and America is :

• LTE
• 1 (2100 MHz)
• 2 (1900 MHz)
• 3 (1800 MHz)
• 4 (AWS)
• 5 (850 MHz)
• 7 (2600 MHz)
• 12 (700 MHz)
• 13 (700c MHz)
• 17 (700b MHz)
• 18 (800 MHz)
• 19 (800 MHz)
• 25 (1900 MHz)
• 26 (800 MHz)
• 39 (TD 1900)
• 40 (TD 2300)
• 41 (TD 2500)
• 66 (AWS-3)
• UMTS
• 2100 MHz
• 1900 MHz
• 1700/2100 MHz
• 850 MHz

 

[patent10021]

for example this discussion also says:

Will a Japanese bought Apple Watch 3, cel… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

Apple Watch Series 3 (GPS + Cellular) is not locked to any specific carrier and has a built-in eSIM that copies information from the iPhone's SIM card.

The built-in cellular features require a carrier plan in the country of use that specifically includes support for Apple Watch.

If buying Apple Watch Series 3 (GPS + Cellular) in another country, then you would need to buy a model that supports the relevant LTE and UMTS bands for your country and supported carrier.

This is a good reference.

Japan Wireless Frequency Bands and Carriers

Mobile networks and carriers in Japan use 5 UMTS bands, 11 LTE bands, and 7 5G NR bands. Find out if your unlocked phone or mobile device will work in Japan

www.frequencycheck.com

 

[dave006]

Normally speaking about cellular compatibility, Japan is always compatible with North America e.g. It's easy for Japanese to roam in North America and vice versa.

As we can see in these two lists some of the bands overlap and some don't. So does this mean anything?

There is no roaming support for Apple Watches. Each watch is grouped by the countries / regions where each specific model will work. Please pick a watch model number that works in your desired region.

Note: Also the cellular watch must be on the same cellular carrier as the paired iPhone. Pick the wrong model and it will not work. Also the watch's eSIM does not copy anything from the paired iPhone's NANO-SIM. The eSIM information is provided from the cellular carrier and is backed up to the Watch app on the paired iPhone.

Dave

 

[patent10021]

But even you said to check the bands. And as you can see, many of the bands overlap.

Obviously the watch as to be on the same network as the phone. Anyone can switch local carries anytime they want. e.g. if I am on Softbank Japan and I switch my iPhone to Docomo Japan then my watch will also work on Docomo.

Now, if I take a factory unlocked iPhone from the Japan Apple Store and use it in North America it will work on any network in Canada/America. So by extension the Japanese watch should also work.

This is incorrect?

 

[dave006]

Now, if I take a factory unlocked iPhone from the Japan Apple Store and use it in North America it will work on any network in Canada/America. So by extension the Japanese watch should also work.

This is incorrect?

Yes this is incorrect. Each carrier in the North America uses different bands in different regions of the country. For example AT&T primarly uses LTE uses Band 2(1900Mhz), Band 4(1700/2100Mhz), Band 5(850Mhz), Band 17(700Mhz currently.

Factory Unlocked iPhones have varied bands that are supported. Here is the list of bands covered by the different versions of the iPhone models. Again yes there are overlapping bands but there is no guarantee that your iPhone from Japan will work in all regions of North America on all carriers since it is a different model with some different bands.

Link to iPhone LTE bands by region: https://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/#iphone-X

The best coverage is always in large metro areas but even then you can get dead zones where due to the bands on the iPhone or Watch you will not get a good LTE signal.

Dave

 

[patent10021]

ok well, for years I have been using my Canadian iPhone in Japan all over Japan without any issue. Roaming using a Canadian SIM. My Japanese friends have been doing the same all over Canada.

So I still don't see the problem. If roaming works, and swapping SIMs in unlocked phones is working, why wouldn't the watch work?

 

[Itada]

There is a lot of misinformation about using the Watch in other countries. Here's the situation:

The Watch is not locked to country/carrier of purchase.

Regardless of which country the Watch was purchased in and what model it is, it will work in any other country as long as:

1. You are using a local carrier plan on your iPhone and the carrier supports the Watch on that plan
2. The carrier uses bands that your model of Watch supports

But the Watch does not support roaming like the iPhone does.

For example, here are two scenarios and what will happen:

Scenario 1: Buy a Watch in Japan. Use a local Docomo SIM in Japan on your iPhone and provision the Watch eSIM on Docomo. Travel to Australia and remove your iPhone's Docomo SIM (which will unload the Watch's eSIM) and insert a local Telstra SIM into your iPhone. Telstra uses bands that the Japanese model supports, so you can now provision the Watch eSIM again with Telstra and it'll work.

Scenario 2: Buy a Watch in Japan. Use a local Docomo SIM in Japan on your iPhone and provision the Watch eSIM on Docomo. Travel to Australia and use roaming on your iPhone to roam on Docomo's Australian partner carrier network (Telstra). At this point, your iPhone will be roaming on Telstra, but the Watch can't roam - it will only want to talk with the Docomo network it was last provisioned with - so it will have No Service. This is the roaming restriction of the Watch that Apple is talking about. If you then remove your iPhone's Docomo SIM and insert a local Telstra SIM, you'd be able to set up the Watch eSIM again with Telstra, as in Scenario 1.

Presumably your situation is that you're using a Canadian SIM in your iPhone in Japan and are therefore roaming on your Canadian carrier's Japanese partner carrier network (e.g. Docomo). Regardless of where you bought the Watch from, you wouldn't be able to provision the Watch eSIM because you're currently roaming. You would need to remove the Canadian SIM from your iPhone and switch to using a local carrier SIM, at which point you'd be able to provision the Watch eSIM.

 

[Itada]

(Of course, while both current variants of the Watch now have many bands in common, if the carrier in the country you ultimately want to use it with doesn't support the bands of your model, you'll be out of luck. While a carrier might say they use several bands, it doesn't mean they're using all of those bands in every city. Sometimes a carrier might use all of their supported bands in one city, but only one of their supported bands in another city, etc. If a carrier exclusively uses a band that isn't supported by the model you purchase, it won't work at all. So while the Watch is not locked to a country/carrier, the bands will limit where you can ultimately use it on cellular.)

 

[patent10021]

@Itada This is pretty much what I thought. The watch should work using an unlocked iPhone and supported bands.

I want to buy a series 5 watch in Japan (I'm not planning on using watch cellular in Japan, but I may use watch cellular in Canada or sell it to someone who wants to use watch cellular in Canada).

Apple site says there are a lot of overlapping bands.

Apple Watch - Carriers

Apple Watch with cellular. Go with just your watch — make calls, get messages, stream music. See if Apple Watch works with networks in your country.

www.apple.com

However if you look at frequencycheck it seems to tell a different story. Seems there aren't any common LTE bands.

Japan Wireless Frequency Bands and Carriers

Mobile networks and carriers in Japan use 5 UMTS bands, 11 LTE bands, and 7 5G NR bands. Find out if your unlocked phone or mobile device will work in Japan

www.frequencycheck.com

Name	Interface
B1 (2100)	LTE
B8 (900)	LTE
B9 (1800)	LTE
B11 1500 Lower	LTE
B18 (800 Lower)	LTE
B19 (800 Upper)	LTE
B21 (1500 Upper)	LTE
B28 (700 APT)	LTE
B41 (TD 2500)	LTE

Canada Wireless Frequency Bands and Carriers

Mobile networks and carriers in Canada use 2 GSM bands, 3 UMTS bands, 14 LTE bands, and 5 5G NR bands. Find out if your unlocked phone or mobile device will work in Canada

www.frequencycheck.com

Name	Interface
B2 (1900 PCS)	LTE
B4 (1700/2100 AWS 1)	LTE
B5 (850)	LTE
B7 (2600)	LTE
B12 (700 ac)	LTE
B13 (700 c)	LTE
B17 (700 bc)	LTE
B29 (700 de)	LTE
B66 (1700/2100)	LTE

One other drawback of buying a Japanese watch is no ECG support. Serial number geo-fenced. So I have to hope Japan ok's ECG by the time I want to sell the watch. Which is probably likely anyway.

 

[Itada]

Exactly. As you can see, the models are fairly clearly targeted as:

A2094/A2095: North/South America
A2156/A2157: Everywhere else in the world

So while a A2156/A2157 (i.e. the one sold in Japan) has no restriction on using it in Canada and it does have some bands that Canadian carriers use, you'll have zero connectivity for some carriers or in certain cities. An example is that Telus uses LTE 12/13/17, and those bands aren't supported by A2156/A2157. It's a bad fit.

I have a Series 4 from Japan and use it in a few countries where I have local phone plans, but all of the countries use bands within the range that it supports, so I have full band availability. (and yes, I'm similarly hoping that Japan gets ECG support at some point so that I can activate it with a local SIM when I'm there next)

To be clear, if you're ultimately planning on using the cellular feature in Canada, the A2156/A2157 model is a bad choice.

 

[patent10021]

I was about to pull the trigger on a iP11P and ceramic watch but after reading this article I don't think Japan is going to approve ECG for a long time. Even the UK doesn't have ECG and they will be much quicker than Japan. Living much of my time in Japan it's easy to see that ECG approval will take years possibly. So trying to sell a Japanese cellular watch in North America is going to be a hard sell. Especially at ceramic pricing when it doesn't even have ECG.

Apple Watch Series 4の心電図機能、なぜ日本で使えないのか

発表時、心電図機能が話題になった米アップル（Apple）のスマートウオッチ「Apple Watch Series 4」だが、残念ながら日本においては同機能は封印されている。前回は米国で購入したApple Watch Series 4の心電図機能が動作する様子を紹介した。今回は、心電図機能はなぜ日本で使えないのかという問題に迫ってみたい。

tech.nikkeibp.co.jp

And regarding the iP11, the Japanese phones as we've been talking about, are on different bands. So if I want to sell something in North America the only thing I feel comfortable buying in Japan is a MacBook Pro.

Have you used any iPhones bought in Japan back home and were able to get the same LTE speeds?

 

[Itada]

Yes, I'd agree about ECG. We might get a nice surprise and it'll be sooner, but I think of Japanese ECG support as being at "some point in the future" rather than "some time soon".

I don't have any experience using Japanese-bought iPhones in the United States as I've never travelled there (I generally only travel within Asia Pacific), but if you look at the supported bands of iPhone 11 Pro, you'll see that the model sold in Japan (A2215/A2218) supports every band that the US model does (A2160/A2161) except LTE 14 and LTE 71, so it's broadly compatible:

iPhone - Supported 5G and LTE networks

See the countries and regions that have certified 5G and LTE networks on iPhone including the U.S., Canada, Japan, Germany, China mainland, and more.

www.apple.com

I can't see any US carriers currently using LTE 14, and LTE 71 is one of the five LTE bands used by T-Mobile.

But this is getting a bit off topic now

 

[patent10021]

And then there's another conundrum. If I want to use a phone that has SUICA/PITAPA tap in the subways then I need a made for Japan iPhone. I think in 2019/2020 most phones from G7 nations are pretty compatible on each other's networks. Especially if we're just talking about big cities right?

So maybe I should just pull the trigger and get at least an iPhone 11 Pro here in Japan but not buy the watch since it's not going to have ECG for years most likely. Buying a $1400 ceramic watch in Japan is stupid if it doesn't even have the main feature it was made for.

 

[Itada]

If I want to use a phone that has SUICA/PITAPA tap in the subways then I need a made for Japan iPhone.

All new iPhones and Watches support Suica/FeliCa regardless of where they're purchased

While it was specific to the Japanese iPhone 7 and Watch Series 2 at launch, every model released worldwide after that supports it (iPhone 8, Watch Series 3, and so on). This is obviously especially good for people from other countries visiting Japan. In fact in iOS 13, you don't even need the Suica or SuicaEng app to add a new anonymous Suica: you can do it right from within Wallet if you temporarily change your phone region to Japan.

I agree, if you plan on using/selling the Watch in Canada later, it's probably best not to buy that model in Japan.

 

[patent10021]

All new iPhones and Watches support Suica/FeliCa regardless of where they're purchased

While it was specific to the Japanese iPhone 7 and Watch Series 2 at launch, every model released worldwide after that supports it (iPhone 8, Watch Series 3, and so on). This is obviously especially good for people from other countries visiting Japan. In fact in iOS 13, you don't even need the Suica or SuicaEng app to add a new anonymous Suica: you can do it right from within Wallet if you temporarily change your phone region to Japan.

I agree, if you plan on using/selling the Watch in Canada later, it's probably best not to buy that model in Japan.

Ah that's good news. Yeah, I just checked. With iOS 13 all you do is click + in the wallet app, select add Suica and you're done.

Have you used a Japanese iPhone in North America? Was everything normal? Same LTE speeds?

 

[Itada]

Have you used a Japanese iPhone in North America? Was everything normal? Same LTE speeds?

I haven't used one in North America, but perhaps someone else will have some experience with that. I think you're probably best to ask that question separately in the iPhone forum though.

 

[maka344]

I haven't used one in North America, but perhaps someone else will have some experience with that. I think you're probably best to ask that question separately in the iPhone forum though.

Can you help please Itada?
I wish to purchase an Apple Watch either in Canada or the US for use on EE only in the U.K. Am I better off buying from Canada or America for compatibility? Any help would be much appreciated, thank you.

 

[Itada]

Hi maka, if you're talking about the Series 5:

Watches bought in Canada and the US support the same frequencies, so that part doesn't matter.

EE uses LTE bands 3, 7 and 20 (and it seems like they're migrating their UMTS band 1 spectrum for use as LTE band 1 now), and the North/South American Series 5 model A2094/A2095 supports bands 1, 3 and 7 but NOT band 20. So if you're in areas in the UK where only band 20 is used, it won't work, but if other bands are in use then it should.

However, it should be obvious that the best fit for EE is the "rest of the world" model A2156/A2157, which supports all bands used by EE and is the model intended to be used in the UK. It isn't clear from your post if you are travelling to North America or buying online, but if you're travelling there and are transiting through a country that sells model A2156/A2157, you'd be better to purchase that instead (see a list of countries here: https://www.apple.com/watch/cellular/ ).

Finally, if you're talking about a different series of Apple Watch then the answer will be different. Particularly in the case of the Series 3, the North/South American model supports NONE of the bands used by EE and will therefore not work at all.

 

[maka344]

Hi maka, if you're talking about the Series 5:

Watches bought in Canada and the US support the same frequencies, so that part doesn't matter.

EE uses LTE bands 3, 7 and 20 (and it seems like they're migrating their UMTS band 1 spectrum for use as LTE band 1 now), and the North/South American Series 5 model A2094/A2095 supports bands 1, 3 and 7 but NOT band 20. So if you're in areas in the UK where only band 20 is used, it won't work, but if other bands are in use then it should.

Once EE migrate UMTS band 1 spectrum for use as LTE, will this provide better support the a US/Canada purchased device?

However, it should be obvious that the best fit for EE is the "rest of the world" model A2156/A2157, which supports all bands used by EE and is the model intended to be used in the UK. It isn't clear from your post if you are travelling to North America or buying online, but if you're travelling there and are transiting through a country that sells model A2156/A2157, you'd be better to purchase that instead (see a list of countries here: https://www.apple.com/watch/cellular/ ).

Finally, if you're talking about a different series of Apple Watch then the answer will be different. Particularly in the case of the Series 3, the North/South American model supports NONE of the bands used by EE and will therefore not work at all.

Thank you for taking the time to comprehensively reply to me.

I am on my way to the airport now and will be visiting Toronto then onto DC hence the question re do I buy in Canada or the US.

I am specifically looking at the series 5. That’s great news re. bands 1, 3 & 7 - in based in Central London but unsure what bands EE use in and around London but it sounds like a watch purchased in the US could work on EE in London/UK from what you are saying.

Now to figure out whether it’s more cost efficient to purchase in Toronto or Virginia.
Thanks again for tour help.

 

[Itada]

No problem, all the best with the trip and the purchase! Let us know how it goes 👍

 

[BillGates1969]

Yep I'm following this one too as I am on EE in the UK and my daughter lives in the US and either we go to her or she comes to us a couple of times a year. Got my S5 for now, but interesting as looking to buy a S5 for my dad for xmas.

 

[yenjenchiujannd]

I shuttle between Taiwan and the U.S. every month. Having the new Apple Watch S5 that MIGHT support both the bands used in the US and Taiwan really intrigues me.
The problem is that, though I had checked all the bands Taiwan carriers use are listed in the latest Apple Watch S5 U.S. version, I didn't get a solid answer from neither Apple Store staffs nor Carrier staffs that whether an AppleWatch S5 purchased in the U.S. will work in Taiwan or not. Seems like it's not just the hardware restriction but might also be sorta software compatibility that might restraint you from using the watch not purchased in the region where you are living. The Apple Store staffs also suggest that I buy a watch in the U.S. and try it in Taiwan and customers can get full refund within 14 days no matter what. I would love to try myself, but every time I stay in the states or Taiwan is longer than a month, making me difficult to deal with if the watch eventually not works at all. If someone can really try it and give some feedback, it will help a lot.