Apple's Acquisition of AI Company Leaves Wyze Cameras Without People Detection

[MacRumors]

Apple's recent purchase of Seattle startup Xnor.ai, which specializes in on-device artificial intelligence, appears to have had a knock-on effect on home security cameras made by Wyze, another Seattle-based company.

The Verge reports that the Wyze Cam V2 and Wyze Cam Pan rely on Xnor.ai's on-device people detection, but now that Apple owns the company, the support has been pulled in a beta firmware update currently rolling out to Wyze customers' devices.

As it happens, Wyze issued a statement in November 2019 saying that Xnor.ai had terminated their contract, and that a firmware update rolling out in mid-January 2020 would remove the feature from its cameras. Whether Xnor.ai planned to be acquired by Apple in January, or it already had been acquired, remains unknown.

Despite the apparent forewarning, Wyze says it is still working on an in-house people detection replacement feature, but it promises to launch it as a free update sometime this year.

Given Apple's deep interest in personal privacy, an acquisition of technology for handling AI on device shouldn't raise any eyebrows. Xnor.ai's work could potentially be incorporated into future iPhones, improving Siri and other AI and machine learning-based tasks that are done on device.

Article Link: Apple's Acquisition of AI Company Leaves Wyze Cameras Without People Detection

 

[FocusAndEarnIt]

I have 5 Wyze cameras with this feature. Xnor.ai tech has been useful when quickly scanning “events” log in the house and being able to filter by a person being present or not. Sad to see it go, for now at least.

 

[Surfer13134]

Just to add as well even if you DONT update the firmware you are still loosing the person detection as they are disabling it on the server side.

 

[bob122989]

Just to add as well even if you DONT update the firmware you are still loosing the person detection as they are disabling it on the server side.

Thanks for this info. I had wondered if ignoring the update would leave person detection intact. Sad when they take away nice things.

 

[RStanford]

Poor planning on their part. If your product depends on a 3rd party service like that that's both key to your product offering and not from a huge player in the market, you really should make sure that you have some kind of code in escrow that can be pulled in case they decide to stop offering it.

 

[1144557]

Poor planning on their part. If your product depends on a 3rd party service like that that's both key to your product offering and not from a huge player in the market, you really should make sure that you have some kind of code in escrow that can be pulled in case they decide to stop offering it.

Disgaree. Most complex electronic products out there rely on some type of IP licensing with no fallbacks. It's far too expensive or complex to develop from square one for anyone but a Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. Ie. like Apple maps when Apple decides to stop licensing Google Maps and spend billions on their own.

Look at Huawei, they had had no OS near ready despite knowing of the ban for what, months? Longer? You could say the same about them then; and they made $125 billion in revenue in 2019. Wyze is worth about $100 Million (last number I could find in 2019), not even what Huawei made in 1 week.

And even then, companies license IP to each other. We just know Apple doesnt play nice with others and wont let them keep using it.

I woudnt expect a company selling $25 cameras has the assets to figure this out from scratch. That is why they are $25, more of a get what you paid thing for a basic good camera. Anything on top is gravy. Face detection is a not a key offering of a camera; many dont offer that or with a high priced subscription only (as they are likely licensing tech)

 

[treyjustice]

Wyze is a great company. Their products are awesome and cheap. Amazing customer service as well. I have no doubt they will have a fix for this soon. Products still work fine, you just can't go through your event logs and separate people from other moving things.

 

[SqB]

Maybe they can get HomeKit video working while they are at it. I’d love to buy a bunch of their stuff but I’m not buying anything that doesn’t work with HomeKit anymore.

 

[_Refurbished_]

I love my Wyze cameras. For $40, my home security is alive and kicking without a monthly fee.

They’re working on an in-house solution anyway, so this isn’t a permanent problem.

 

[Treq]

Does it pass the butter?

 

[DeepIn2U]

Thanks for this info. I had wondered if ignoring the update would leave person detection intact. Sad when they take away nice things.

Im more concerned why Apple would want a people detection feature for cameras? Would that not go against their privacy concern stance?

 

[johnwillo]

Im more concerned why Apple would want a people detection feature for cameras? Would that not go against their privacy concern stance?

The whole point of this technology is that it runs on the device, not in the cloud. Wyze had no idea if my cameras were filming people, because the camera itself made that determination and flagged the presence of a person. I imagine that's why Apple chose them in particular.

 

[konqerror]

Disgaree. Most complex electronic products out there rely on some type of IP licensing with no fallbacks. It's far too expensive or complex to develop from square one for anyone but a Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. Ie. like Apple maps when Apple decides to stop licensing Google Maps and spend billions on their own.

Look at Huawei, they had had no OS near ready despite knowing of the ban for what, months? Longer? You could say the same about them then; and they made $125 billion in revenue in 2019. Wyze is worth about $100 Million (last number I could find in 2019), not even what Huawei made in 1 week.

Not at all. I've seen IP licensing contracts and they're for periods of many years, 5-10 easy. Wyze should have signed a contract that required a 1 year termination notice, allowing them to transition to new technology without cutting anybody off. The Apple Maps transition was over a year, nobody got cutoff there.

Huawei is a completely different scenario. It was US law that stopped export of technology immediately and obviously law overrides civil contracts.

 

[goobot]

Im more concerned why Apple would want a people detection feature for cameras? Would that not go against their privacy concern stance?

Apple has had features in iPhoto and photos that can tell people’s faces apart and make albums for them for the past 10 years.

 

[sinsin07]

Apparently loss of Xnor.ai is not their only problem:
Data leak 12-26-2019[Updated 01-06-2020]
Additionally from today:
Wyze Exposed Customer Data: 6 Ways to Keep Your Home Security System Safe

 

[hipnetic]

Apparently loss of Xnor.ai is not their only problem:

This is old news now. The information that could have been obtained was not particularly concerning (IMO).

Regarding this person-detection feature...for some reason I thought this was an extra-cost feature (which I also assumed was cloud-based), so I never bothered with it. Just checking my iPhone Wyze app now, and I see it as a free add-on, so I guess I was mistaken. I guess it's a good thing I didn't bother using it, or I might be more upset that they removed it.

 

[ActionableMango]

Some people are saying this feature runs on the device, but others are saying the feature will stop working when they disable it on the server side.

 

[Aston441]

oligopoly destroys innovation

what else is new

tech offered such promise for humanity

not any more

oh well

 

[ActionableMango]

I've worked at a startup and have friends that have worked at other startups. Startups very often WANT to be bought out by one of the big boys--it is a stated goal right from the beginning.

It would not surprise me at all if Wyze themselves was hoping to get bought out by Apple. The white styled cube with rounded edges reminds me of a big Apple USB charger, and the privacy-minded features remind me of Apple too. Their problem is that anyone can make a camera so there's not much value there, and the on-device artificial intelligence was licensed so that value was somewhere else.

 

[DeepIn2U]

The whole point of this technology is that it runs on the device, not in the cloud. Wyze had no idea if my cameras were filming people, because the camera itself made that determination and flagged the presence of a person. I imagine that's why Apple chose them in particular.

Then how is a function/feature than runs on the device be suddenly turned off (when updates are disabled) when a switch in the server is turned off?!

That’s like saying searching/indexing in OSX/macOS will no longer work if you disable Siri. iOS can still respond with the time if you disable Siri (last I checked with iOS 11).

Apple has had features in iPhoto and photos that can tell people’s faces apart and make albums for them for the past 10 years.

For the camera yes I’m fully aware of that. I’m concerned about the video aspect ... considering my reply to the other person above were a function is to run on device and not require internet connection, as per the video shown in the articles link, which will be/turned off when a switch is disabled in the cloud ... does that not contradict a feature running on the device? This is what I’m staying is odd ... what does Apple really want to use with this tech? I’m sure to augment their native apps further and bolster Siri’s advancement but how a feature on device and designed that way can be disabled in the cloud sounds a bit strange or more confusing.

 

[Freeangel1]

APPLE just seems to buy up the technology it needs for future products instead of being innovative and designing it on their own.
Leaves me wandering if they have really lost their innovation and are just trying to keep up with current technology

 

[Aston441]

The last real groundbreaking innovation by Apple was putting a multitouch capacitive screen interface over Unix underpinnings that was dumbed down enough for Baby Boomers to use.

Before that it was designing a GUI over Unix to look like a Mac GUI... which was, as freely admitted by Jobs, just a copy of the GUI by the greatest innovator of the last 50 years, Xerox - a once great company destroyed by bean counters and their marketing department.

 

[johnwillo]

Then how is a function/feature than runs on the device be suddenly turned off (when updates are disabled) when a switch in the server is turned off?!

Wyze updated the firmware about a week ago, which removed this capability. If I had wanted to, I could have skipped the update and retained the capability. Of course, I wouldn't get any new fixes or features going forward.

 

[treyjustice]

I haven't updated so I still have the functionality lol