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Piggie

macrumors G3
Original poster
Feb 23, 2010
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I'd be interested to head your own views on the future here, and what you feel Apple is planning to do related to this issue which is going to be cropping up more and more over time as something which will need addressing:

Actual controllers with haptic feedback and buttons to use when in certain AR/VR experiences.

Firstly, let me say, in case you feel I am hating on hand controls. No, not at all. I feel hand mapping/controls and hand/finger gestures are a superb way to interact with certain apps in this type of device. 100% ideal in some situations.

However, at the same time, when it comes to more complex integrations, than just grabbing the corner of something or moving something around in a space, where you wish to have finer control, or multiple operations to select from at one time, perhaps not so great.

There is a very obvious problem when it comes to finger occlusion. You have 10 digits (or most people do, so let's not forget those with disabilities) and there is obviously no possible way for a camera, even AI trained to see what all fingers are doing when they are blocked from the camera's view by other parts of your hand.

Yes, software can be written (to a certain extent) to try and work around these limitations, but they are limitations.

Or course we also know that this is wanting to be a fully immersive and realistic experience, and the body/brain likes to get feedback. you know when you touch something, even when you are not looking at it, as you can feel the buttons with your finger tips and you can feel the haptic feedback to let you know something it happening/functioning.

An incredible simple scenario would be a gold game, where you see you are holding a club, and feel the tap as you hit the ball.
None of this the Vision Pro can currently do.
This of course would expand right up to complex simulations when you have many levels of haptic feedback and buttons to press/pull etc to emulate the real world in your Virtual world.

So.......................

After saying all of that, what are your thoughts on what Apple is planning here?

I will suggest Apple are not stupid in any way, and they fully understand the need for some type of hand controller with a wide range of haptic feedback options.
And they are, perhaps in some back room! working on such devices.
But they are not going to release them for some time.

They know that is they launched with controllers that all the devs would default to using them as an easy way to port over apps and not put much effort into hand controls/gestures, and that's what Apple very much wants to push.
Once controlling apps with hand controls have become established, perhaps a year, perhaps 2 or 3 years, THEN Apple will be come clean and show the controller they have been working on. Give it a typical Apple name (not a VR controller) and then this will become an option for those type of apps that would benefit from such a device.

Think of this like the iPad Stylus.
It was obvious from day one that a stylus is vastly better than a chunky human finger tip for very fine work, but they wanted to fully establish touch controls as the way all apps on the iPad would be controlled, before they released, five years later, the Stylus they had been secretly working on. And due to them waiting five years touch controls on the iPad were the default method so now we have the best of both worlds Touch for most things and a Stylus for those apps that benefit from a stylus.

So.......................

Tell us your thoughts.

Are Apple working very quietly on AR/VR controllers that they are going to release in the future as they know full well they are going to be needed to offer users the very best experiences?

Are they going to be as stubborn as hell and simply refuse point blank to even consider such a need exists?

Are they going to put in support for the Valve Index controllers? (or some other 3rd party controller)

If they are going to release actual Apple controllers, how long do you think they will wait to ensure Hand Controls get fully established before showing them to the public?

Or what other thoughts / predictions do you have on this issue?

Finally again, just to make it plain, I an fully on-board with the idea of using your empty hands and fingers for lots of uses but also I'm 100% certain that an actual controller you feel and hold, which has buttons and many haptics will add a vastly greater and more realistic experience in a whole host of certain apps.

Again, I'm looking forward to your predictions and viewpoints
 
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I fail to see what they could add other than haptic feedback, that a regular controller for gaming would not cover, over using your hands as you do now?

Sure there are ultra specialized situtations, like a keyboard, but other than I don't see the need.
 
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I fail to see what they could add other than haptic feedback, that a regular controller for gaming would not cover, over using your hands as you do now?

Sure there are ultra specialized situtations, like a keyboard, but other than I don't see the need.
I will admit I'm a bit confused by your reply.
We are speaking of AR/VR entertainment experiences or some type of simulation which is suited to a virtual aspect.
Not a flat game on a floating flat screen with a normal game controller.
I'm of course aware Apple supports a standard game controller for that usage.
We are speaking of controllers that are designed specifically for use in a 3D Virtual / Spatial environment.
 
My prediction is that Apple will never, ever, ever release a VR controller. I think they may at some point release something for haptic feedback, but only in a form that's worn rather than held (like a wristband derived from the Apple Watch).

To me, the basic point of the eye/hand design is to set up a paradigm now that supports having a device that you just wear casually while doing other stuff, in the same way that you just wear an Apple Watch while doing other stuff. The hardware is still a long way away from that, but forcing app devs into that world right now means that the enthusiasts and early adopters will get all that stuff worked out well before it's really in the mass market.
 
Shame. What they should have released for the iPhone, the iPad, and now the AVP is a REFERENCE game controller. It doesnt have to be that great. Make the iPhone one like a Switch. Maybe another like the PS5 controller. Maybe something cooler for the AVP.

Think about this. The current gen iPhone probably could take out the PS5 for gaming, but the games are all crap jokes. Why? Form factor. You play on glass and support for controllers is meh.

By just giving it a good form factor for gaming like steam deck, you would KILL all the other gaming rigs. This would also have the side benefit of bringing gaming to the Mac.

But as is, the iPhone form factor is just a joke for 'real games' and so you just get the garbage you get. Despite it having insane horsepower and could obviate the need for a console.
 
My prediction is that Apple will never, ever, ever release a VR controller. I think they may at some point release something for haptic feedback, but only in a form that's worn rather than held (like a wristband derived from the Apple Watch).

To me, the basic point of the eye/hand design is to set up a paradigm now that supports having a device that you just wear casually while doing other stuff, in the same way that you just wear an Apple Watch while doing other stuff. The hardware is still a long way away from that, but forcing app devs into that world right now means that the enthusiasts and early adopters will get all that stuff worked out well before it's really in the mass market.

I think they'll cancel the entire project before they'd release a controller

Thanks for both your replies and interesting to get your thoughts.

If I may ask a follow up question based upon your views of no VR/AR controllers coming from Apple.

Do either of you feel, Apple would instead be open to supporting 3rd party AR/VR controllers?
So that entertainment apps, which would struggle with only empty/bare hand/finger operation would be able to be enjoyed?

Or would you feel that Apple will effectively block such devices from working?
I mean, it would make sense for Apple to sell you (and make money) from it's own controllers, than letting a 3rd party one becoming the standard for Vison Pro would it not?

I'm fully aware that Apple is not interested in gaming, due to Steve Jobs, but they do seem to be making moves over recent years so I'm interested how they will handle this, unless they are really happy for other devices from other brands to always be preferable headsets for those who wish to also enjoy entertainment aspects of AR/VR

Again, remember how 100% certain many were that Apple would never ever support a Stylus for an iPad, especially given Steve Jobs remarks when the 1st iPad launched, but then just 5 years later Apple released their stylus, and now you have the best of both worlds and as far as I'm aware no-one is saying they should not have released it.
 
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