Apple's Irish Data Center Faces New Challenge as Residents Plan to Fight Back Against Court Approval [Updated]

[MacRumors]

Apple has been trying to get its $1 billion data center in County Galway, Ireland built for well over two years now, and last week the company finally won approval for construction by the Irish High Court. While it was expected that Apple would now move forward and begin planning for construction, two local residents have brought up a new legal challenge for the company.

As reported by The Galway Advertiser (via Business Insider), two Athenry residents have requested a certificate to appeal the court ruling made last week that granted Apple permission for the project. The case is said to be due back to the court on Wednesday, October 25. Previously, the same individuals challenged Apple's data center by citing multiple environmental concerns, but their challenge was rejected.

Locals marching in support for Apple's data center last November (via Apple for Athenry)​

Environmental protection issues have been the source of the objector's arguments for the last few years, originally arguing that Apple's data center could have negative effects on local animal populations, and could lead to potential flooding concerns on a neighboring golf course. Then, the data center's proximity to a local nuclear power plant was used to bring up new objections to the site's construction, despite the plant having been shut down for years.

Many locals still support Apple's data center in the area, with the leader of the Apple for Athenry Facebook group telling Business Insider that "the collective hearts of Athenry sank" when the new legal challenge was brought up this week.

Apple originally wanted the data center to be up and running by early 2017, but these repeated setbacks have greatly elongated the company's timeline for the site. Once it is functional, the Derrydonnell Forest data center will see ongoing construction over 10-15 years, supporting services like the App Store, Apple Music, Apple Pay and iCloud.

Update 11/1: Ireland's High Court has rejected the residents' appeal against Apple's data center, "clearing the way for the project to proceed" (via Reuters).

Article Link: Apple's Irish Data Center Faces New Challenge as Residents Plan to Fight Back Against Court Approval [Updated]

 

[pelowj]

A local nuclear power plant? Ireland has no nuclear power plants! They're referring to one in the UK!

 

[applepuree]

Correct but that was the argument used back in 2016. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/06/01/apples-irish-data-center-nuclear/

 

[mrow]

I don’t get why Apple doesn’t just say ‘**** it’ at this point and move elsewhere. Move it to the UK or somewhere nearby on continental Europe like France or Spain.

 

[Hustler1337]

I don’t get why Apple doesn’t just say ‘**** it’ at this point and move elsewhere. Move it to the UK or somewhere nearby on continental Europe like France or Spain.

If you've invested a lot of money into choosing a site and there are commercial, legal and other factors for choosing a particular site, then you wouldn't give up. Clearly that site has a number of advantages to Apple and it definitely won't be outside of Ireland because of the massive tax benefits in the country.

No doubt Apple will get their way eventually, just like most corporations do with big bucks to spend.

 

[pelowj]

I don’t get why Apple doesn’t just say ‘**** it’ at this point and move elsewhere. Move it to the UK or somewhere nearby on continental Europe like France or Spain.

If you've invested a lot of money into choosing a site and there are commercial and other reasons for choosing a particular site, then you wouldn't give up. Clearly that site has a number of advantages to Apple and it definitely won't be outside of Ireland because of the massive tax benefits in the country.

There's also huge advantages offered by Ireland's climate. Cooling prices in Spain (and in parts of France) are going to be astronomical.

The UK is not really a safe pair of hands now in terms of data import/export. Who knows what the regulatory environment's going to be like in a couple of years? Who knows if data export to the UK will even be possible from the EU, etc.

Ireland's also extremely well connected to the USA, the UK and mainland Europe (bypassing the UK through IFC-1).

-Jp

 

[Ca$hflow]

I don’t get why Apple doesn’t just say ‘**** it’ at this point and move elsewhere. Move it to the UK or somewhere nearby on continental Europe like France or Spain.

Just follow the money. Apple may be wanting the Data Center there also to justify keeping their $215 billion in profits there and paying approx <1.5% which is virtually paying no taxes. Only $16.6 billion is held in the USA by the way. How much do you as a citizen pay in taxes? Horrible how the world has favoured the ultra rich.

 

[pelowj]

Just follow the money. Apple may be wanting the Data Center there also to justify keeping their $215 billion in profits there and paying approx <1.5% in taxes. Right now Apple has money there and no businesses there and stashing billions in cash virtually paying no taxes. Only $16.6 billion is held in the USA by the way. How much do you as a citizen pay in taxes? Horrible how the world has favoured the ultra rich.

Your post is totally inaccurate. Apple has huge business in Ireland. They employ thousands and thousands of people here and their entire European operation is based in Cork, where they employ 5,500 people.

They also paid far more than 1.5% in Irish tax when you exclude non-resident companies.

Why would Apple keep money in a country that is not friendly to enterprise, like the US? Apple owes nothing to the US.

-Jp

 

[laptech]

The simple fact of the matter is only a handful of residents want the project stopped and they know the only way it can happen is if they delay Apple in the courts long enough that Apple will eventually get fed up and leave, building the data centre somewhere else.

 

[Glideslope]

I don’t get why Apple doesn’t just say ‘**** it’ at this point and move elsewhere. Move it to the UK or somewhere nearby on continental Europe like France or Spain.

The facility is part of its future corporate tax plans. If the rate in the US drops to 20% you’ll see the plug pulled on this. However there are simply too many variables to make any assumptions on almost anything today.

 

[pelowj]

The simple fact of the matter is only a handful of residents want the project stopped and they know the only way it can happen is if they delay Apple in the courts long enough that Apple will eventually get fed up and leave, building the data centre somewhere else.

True. I doubt they'll get leave to appeal, to be honest. We'll see on the 25th October.

 

[macTW]

Horrible how the world has favoured the ultra rich.

Yes. Because the rich should pay more taxes. Because the have the money. Never mind the idiots who wrote these laws didn’t do a good job, and the rich can’t pay people to find the loopholes left out.

/s

 

[rctlr]

I've got 20 acres Apple can buy from me to make a Data Centre.

 

[kingpushup]

Specific list of objections seem desperate and lawyerly inconsistent: concern for animals but alternatively for golf course but alternatively for shuttered nuclear plant. All these have factual tests to detrrmine impact: whether there will be habitat erosion, degree of flooding, or any impact to power facility or from (radiation). Test, plan, and move on.

 

[EsTriFee]

From what I read about this story (do correct me if I’m wrong) Apple chose a site in a forest? Or something like that? And they said they’d have to cut down some parts then replant after it’s built and all to make it less visible. Why would you chose a plot that requires this? There’s plenty of actually free land with nothing on it, could build it on any plot and then as a nice bonus make the plot surrounding it with trees? As the their current option most likely does a lot more impact on the forest area and it’s ecosystem. Or am I missing something special about this particularly place ? Considering I live in Ireland and have no idea what would be so special about a forest plot.

Also people mentioning Apple tax, since I can’t yet comment in any of those topics because of forum restrictions, I’m just gonna say this: if a company has to create multiple subsidiaries in other countries with no people working for them, to get the tax rates they get, i think they’re not fully honest. And the other argument for some other people “well change the law do they can’t do that going forward” last I checked the taxing bodies have like a 5 year limit or something where they can go back and look at your personal taxes and check if theirs anything’s wrong. So when they started the European investigation they went 10 years back which seems reasonable for a company’s taxes.

 

[Pbrutto]

Fair enough, let a Chinese company build one instead. They will clearly be the greener choice.

 

[extrachrispy]

There's also huge advantages offered by Ireland's climate. Cooling prices in Spain (and in parts of France) are going to be astronomical.

BINGO. Power and cooling are some of the largest ongoing expenses for data centers. If you can cool with ambient air, or at least not have to chill the data center very much below ambient, you're going to save a fortune.

 

[laptech]

BINGO. Power and cooling are some of the largest ongoing expenses for data centers. If you can cool with ambient air, or at least not have to chill the data center very much below ambient, you're going to save a fortune.

If cooling was an issue then there are many countries with colder climates (not too cold though) that Apple could chose rather than Ireland. I therefore do not think cooling played a part in Apple's thought process.

Personally i think it has something to do with the long term case brought by the EU against Apple and Ireland that was recently ruled open. Allowing Apple 0.0005% tax does equate to state aid which is against EU law. The EU is now pressuring Ireland to pay the actual amount of tax that Apple should have been paying. I think Ireland is using it's position on what it knows to pressure Apple to build the data centre in it's country and to use any payment to pay off the amount the EU is demanding from Ireland. No company would last this long wanting to build a factory, facing delay after delay due to local residents fighting it in court, they would have moved on but Apple has stayed firm. To me this implies that Ireland has a hold over Apple over this tax situation with the EU and is using it to make sure Apple stays put with the building of the data centre.

 

[extrachrispy]

If cooling was an issue then there are many countries with colder climates (not too cold though) that Apple could chose rather than Ireland. I therefore do not think cooling played a part in Apple's thought process.

There are; however, have they the developed power grid and internet connection that Ireland has?

Power and cooling would certainly explain why a data center would not be moved either to Spain or the south of France, for example, where summertime temperatures reach as high as 45C.

Personally i think it has something to do with the long term case brought by the EU against Apple and Ireland that was recently ruled open. Allowing Apple 0.0005% tax does equate to state aid which is against EU law.

I have yet to see a shred of substantiation for this 0.0005% figure.

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

Wow, I'm all for a good opposition, but that's some weak Irish sauce.

 

[Phonephreak]

Your post is totally inaccurate. Apple has huge business in Ireland. They employ thousands and thousands of people here and their entire European operation is based in Cork, where they employ 5,500 people.

They also paid far more than 1.5% in Irish tax when you exclude non-resident companies.

Why would Apple keep money in a country that is not friendly to enterprise, like the US? Apple owes nothing to the US.

-Jp

Then they should move their hq out of Cupertino and relocate to Ireland.

 

[pelowj]

Then they should move their hq out of Cupertino and relocate to Ireland.

We'd welcome them with open arms.

 

[Phonephreak]

We'd welcome them with open arms.

I personally wouldn’t miss them. I’d still use their devices though.

 

[justperry]

If cooling was an issue then there are many countries with colder climates (not too cold though) that Apple could chose rather than Ireland. I therefore do not think cooling played a part in Apple's thought process.

Personally i think it has something to do with the long term case brought by the EU against Apple and Ireland that was recently ruled open. Allowing Apple 0.0005% tax does equate to state aid which is against EU law. The EU is now pressuring Ireland to pay the actual amount of tax that Apple should have been paying. I think Ireland is using it's position on what it knows to pressure Apple to build the data centre in it's country and to use any payment to pay off the amount the EU is demanding from Ireland. No company would last this long wanting to build a factory, facing delay after delay due to local residents fighting it in court, they would have moved on but Apple has stayed firm. To me this implies that Ireland has a hold over Apple over this tax situation with the EU and is using it to make sure Apple stays put with the building of the data centre.

There are a few inaccuracies in your post, Ireland does not owe any taxes to the EU in this case.
The EU demands Ireland to collect taxes due to be paid to Ireland.
Ireland pays the EU a certain amount each and every year, all EU countries do this, one more than the other, or less.
Some countries get more money back than what they pay to EU for instance subsidy on farming, we as Europeans now have to pay more to Ireland than needed because Ireland should have collected those 13 Billion from Apple.

It will be quite some time before we see the end of it, it might or will take years to eventually win or lose.(Apple or the EU)