Apple's Massive Missed Opprotunity

[rnauman821]

The moment the rumor of 64 bit processor started floating around, I started building hope. A 64 bit processor meant a lot of things: potential for more ram, higher core counts, unified OS. There was one massive upside to a new processor. Since the developers are already going to redo their apps over the next year for the 64 bit a7, it would be an idea time for them to update their apps around a higher resolution display.

In one swoop, Apple could have released a phone that set the new baseline for future apps. 64 bit and 1080p or 64bit and 1440p. Their new iPads could follow these specs pretty easily. From a developers standpoint, it would be a no brainer. They could have dept the design of the phone almost the same, simply adding .25" to each side of the phone while keeping the dept the same. The extra space could have accommodated a larger battery to power the larger display.

However, now developers face two large transitions. They get to recode their apps to 64bit and then to a higher resolution. I doubt many will go through this effort. The writing is on the wall. Most will wait until the next iPhone release and release a 64bit app with support for the larger screen.

64bit is great, but there is minimal incentive for developers to resign their apps when another large change is around the corner.

 

[KeepCalmPeople]

Fair point, but most consumers don't understand those details and will just buy into the hype of 64-bit. Apple marketing at its best!

 

[BaldiMac]

1) Infinity Blade was upgraded to 64-bit in 2 hours by one person.
2) Not sure why developers would prefer to go through multiple unrelated transitions at one time.

 

[rnauman821]

... Any 64bit apps developed will not be backwards compatible with older phones. By phasing these updates, they are creating fragmentation for developers. Next year, assuming they do go with higher density screens, a developer will have to maintain a 32bit 480p app, a 32bit 720p app, a 64bit 720p app, and a 64bit 1080p (or whatever resolution they choose) app.

 

[BaldiMac]

... Any 64bit apps developed will not be backwards compatible with older phones. By phasing these updates, they are creating fragmentation for developers. Next year, assuming they do go with higher density screens, a developer will have to maintain a 32bit 480p app, a 32bit 720p app, a 64bit 720p app, and a 64bit 1080p (or whatever resolution they choose) app.

Not really. Developers will simply create universal apps that contain 64 and 32 bit binaries that share graphics resources.

 

[dojoman]

... Any 64bit apps developed will not be backwards compatible with older phones. By phasing these updates, they are creating fragmentation for developers. Next year, assuming they do go with higher density screens, a developer will have to maintain a 32bit 480p app, a 32bit 720p app, a 64bit 720p app, and a 64bit 1080p (or whatever resolution they choose) app.

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[HenryDJP]

... Any 64bit apps developed will not be backwards compatible with older phones. By phasing these updates, they are creating fragmentation for developers. Next year, assuming they do go with higher density screens, a developer will have to maintain a 32bit 480p app, a 32bit 720p app, a 64bit 720p app, and a 64bit 1080p (or whatever resolution they choose) app.

Uh, ever heard of the term "Universal Binary"?

 

[kappaknight]

Seriously... you have no clue. However, if you are a developer and dislike the fragmentation that Apple is creating, why not go develop for Android? I'm sure there's no fragmentation there.

/sarcasm.

 

[phpmaven]

The moment the rumor of 64 bit processor started floating around, I started building hope. A 64 bit processor meant a lot of things: potential for more ram, higher core counts, unified OS. There was one massive upside to a new processor. Since the developers are already going to redo their apps over the next year for the 64 bit a7, it would be an idea time for them to update their apps around a higher resolution display.

In one swoop, Apple could have released a phone that set the new baseline for future apps. 64 bit and 1080p or 64bit and 1440p. Their new iPads could follow these specs pretty easily. From a developers standpoint, it would be a no brainer. They could have dept the design of the phone almost the same, simply adding .25" to each side of the phone while keeping the dept the same. The extra space could have accommodated a larger battery to power the larger display.

However, now developers face two large transitions. They get to recode their apps to 64bit and then to a higher resolution. I doubt many will go through this effort. The writing is on the wall. Most will wait until the next iPhone release and release a 64bit app with support for the larger screen.

64bit is great, but there is minimal incentive for developers to resign their apps when another large change is around the corner.

From what we know so far, it seems that converting apps to 64bit with the new tools Apple has provided is rather trivial and they don't even have to do it at all, so your whole argument is moot.

 

[scaredpoet]

... Any 64bit apps developed will not be backwards compatible with older phones.

If there's one thing Apple is good at, it's making sure there's a way to make apps backward compatible, resulting in software that could natively run on the new and old platforms with a single download. They did it when Macs went from 68k processors to PowerPC processors. Then they did it again when Macs went from PowerPC to x86 architecture. And yet again in the OS X 32 to 64-bit transition.

iOS? Let's see: iPad ans iPhones can run the same universal app. So can retina and non-retina devices. So can 3.5-inch and 4-inch screen iPhones. If they didn't do this, you'd have to have at least 6 different versions of the same app to support the existing supported product line, not including the upcoming 64-bit iPhones.

But thankfully, you don't have to do this. And you won't when 64-bit iOS becomes more prevalent.

While it's mostly true that users won't see or notice much of a difference in the switch to 64-bit architecture, in a way that's what you hope for. A seamless transition is a good transition. The whole reason I and many others switched from Windows to mac was because the shift to Windows 64-bit was such a a painful, broken process on that platform. This is something you don't want to notice, and it's good that Apple is rolling this out gradually and doing it sooner than most others.

 

[Kurso]

1) Infinity Blade was upgraded to 64-bit in 2 hours by one person.
2) Not sure why developers would prefer to go through multiple unrelated transitions at one time.

Infinity Blade was recompiled to 64-bit in 2 hours. That is not the same thing as optimizing for 64-bit.

 

[Zerilos]

Not really. Developers will simply create universal apps that contain 64 and 32 bit binaries that share graphics resources.

Actualy they have to even if they don't want to. Apple is mandating that all submitted apps be 32 and 64-bit compatible for now on.

 

[Troneas]

can someone explain to me what motivation - if any - developers have right now to change their existing apps to a 64-bit version?

 

[BaldiMac]

Infinity Blade was recompiled to 64-bit in 2 hours. That is not the same thing as optimizing for 64-bit.

Which is why I said "upgraded to" and not "optimized for".

Actualy they have to even if they don't want to. Apple is mandating that all submitted apps be 32 and 64-bit compatible for now on.

So?

 

[bozzykid]

Actualy they have to even if they don't want to. Apple is mandating that all submitted apps be 32 and 64-bit compatible for now on.

All 32-bit apps are already 64-bit compatible. The issue is if you create a 64-bit binary, you also have do include a 32-bit binary as well. This is why you probably won't see many devs switch to 64-bit anytime soon.

Btw, devs just don't compile as 64-bit. Depending on their code, this could require quite a bit of work.

 

[chabig]

can someone explain to me what motivation - if any - developers have right now to change their existing apps to a 64-bit version?

See the post above yours.

 

[Mrbobb]

From what we know so far, it seems that converting apps to 64bit with the new tools Apple has provided is rather trivial and they don't even have to do it at all, so your whole argument is moot.

Am no IOS developer but from my programming days, basically just run the same code through the new 64 bit compiler! with a few adjustment am sure.

This is not the first time developers have to deal with different screen sizes. VGA - XVGA - SVGA blah - blah. Some people make it sound like a huge ordeal.

Or maybe this is just another veiled I want a bigger screen post.

 

[Troneas]

See the post above yours.

that is for *new* apps. what about existing apps?



and is that actually confirmed?

 

[Kurso]

Which is why I said "upgraded to" and not "optimized for".



So?

But that is pointless. As a developer I will continue to write 32-bit optimized apps until:

A) I need something 64-bit offers
or
B) There are no more 32-bit phones to maintain compatibility with.

64-bit offers almost nothing to 99% of apps.

 

[Troneas]

But that is pointless. As a developer I will continue to write 32-bit optimized apps until:

A) I need something 64-bit offers
or
B) There are no more 32-bit phones to maintain compatibility with.

64-bit offers almost nothing to 99% of apps.

you are a developer?


is it true what some are claiming above that you are now forced to produce 64-bit apps?

 

[BaldiMac]

But that is pointless. As a developer I will continue to write 32-bit optimized apps until:

A) I need something 64-bit offers
or
B) There are no more 32-bit phones to maintain compatibility with.

64-bit offers almost nothing to 99% of apps.

1. Again, what are you talking about? This has nothing to do with what I said.
2. There was an earlier claim that Apple will be requiring 64-bit binaries for all new submissions.
3. Recompiling for 64-bit will be insignificant for most apps. No reason not to.

 

[Kurso]

1. Again, what are you talking about? This has nothing to do with what I said.
2. There was an earlier claim that Apple will be requiring 64-bit binaries for all new submissions.
3. Recompiling for 64-bit will be insignificant for most apps. No reason not to.

What is your point? The general theme of the thread is that 64-bit is nothing more than marketing at the moment.

Recompiling is simple but if I want to really take advantage of 64-bit, for whatever reason, I need new code. As a developer maintaining two code bases if a giant pain in the arse.

So writing code for 32-bit and compiling that same code in 64-bit will be the norm for some time to come.

----------

you are a developer?


is it true what some are claiming above that you are now forced to produce 64-bit apps?

No, you are not force to develop 64-bit apps. You are forced to compile your app in 64-bit. This will have some advantage in terms of iOS services for sure.

 

[leman]

They get to recode their apps to 64bit

Which takes like 2 minutes for the average application In most cases, there is no recoding involved, you just click 'build' and you are done. The only apps which have to recode are those that do some weird stuff, and given how restricted iOS is, that will be very few.

 

[BaldiMac]

What is your point? The general theme of the thread is that 64-bit is nothing more than marketing at the moment.

This thread? I haven't seen a single post that implies that (other than yours, of course.)

Recompiling is simple but if I want to really take advantage of 64-bit, for whatever reason, I need new code. As a developer maintaining two code bases if a giant pain in the arse.

So writing code for 32-bit and compiling that same code in 64-bit will be the norm for some time to come.

Okay? Not arguing with any of that. I just have no idea what it has to do with what I said.

 

[leman]

Recompiling is simple but if I want to really take advantage of 64-bit, for whatever reason, I need new code.

If you are a developer, then you should know that just by recompiling the your application to 64-bit you are gaining performance benefits of having more registers, more efficient function calls, etc. Not to mention the access to faster 64-bit frameworks. And as I said above, if the application is coded following the good programming practices, then it should compile to 64-bit without any work at all. Or are you using assembly extensively through your projects?