Appreciate non-Touch Bar keyboard

[hailey bee]

This seemed an off-topic to post in original thread,

The Touch Bar was Something different and now a lot of companies are following that route, Asus, Intel, I don’t really understand why people hate it so much......
If you see the stuff that Intel and other companies are testing, the keyboard is completely replaced by a second touch screen that works as a keyboard. We are supposed to go forward not backwards with those weird mechanical keyboards.

While we are still relying on fingers for input, you have to understand and operate in the system that evolved them. You have to give fingers immediate physical feedback. The physical experience of a mechanical keyboard could not be replicated with a touch surface, period. My fingers explore or rest on keys without invoking any action, this builds trust. When you learn to properly type, you learn to trust your fingers – this frees your eyes, and your brain enjoys experience more, and is more productive. This is true in VR too, fingers need physical feedback to be a productive system, hence the haptics.

That's why Touch Bar had a laughable first iteration, when they replaced highly used Esc key. Touch Bar is still a poor experience, because it does not appreciate finger evolution. The benefit of a touch surface is to simulate analog input. Which remains unused in most professions. And on Touch Bar it's just a one dimension analog. And if you're not using analog benefits of a touch surface, it becomes poor version of mechanical keyboard.

That's why people ask for an option of no-touch bar keyboard, or a touch screen.

To go forward would be to give fingers different – physical – input method. Something different from keyboard, not a broken version of it. Or employ full-body alternative input. Or a direct brain link.

 

[leman]

I would agree with every single thing you said... except that we are talking about a multimedia/shortcut control strip. The physical function keys have barely any function (pun intended). You don’t type on the Touch Bar. You use it for a couple of sliders and a context menu option it two. That’s it. For that purpose, it is more useful than the physical keys it replaces.

 

[Madhatter32]

Yes I agree with you. As I mentioned elsewhere, it's a matter of opinion. However, as the OP pointed out, in terms of function, the touch bar does not advance the ball -- at least so far. More importantly, it needlessly drives up the costs of these machines and is a non starter for touch typists. At best, it should be an option or upgrade. Also, with resepct you the comment you cite, as far as I know, there is no other company that has followed Apple's footsteps on this kind of thing. The Asus implementation is a secondary screen -- not really the same thing.

 

[decisions]

The Touch Bar is a clear improvement in my opinion. They can do everything function keys could do, except more. It is customizable, even by 3rd party apps. I think developers, and maybe even Apple, just need to lean into it more. Perhaps Apple will now that the entire MBP lineup has a Touch Bar. Also, I expect a new Magic Keyboard with a Touch Bar to be released that will help them further be able to increase support for it.

Aside from that, I think it would be nice if in the next big chassis redesign for MacBooks, they expand the Touch Bar upward into the empty space between the current Touch Bar and bottom bezel of the display. It would be nice to keep more stuff there and make it work as something more like a second screen. Imagine if above the current Touch Bar, you were able to incorporate the Shortcuts app. So you might have "Send a message to X", "Open E-mail", etc.

Lastly, I think a lot of the criticism for the Touch Bar comes from not the idea that it isn't an improvement over function keys, but that the functionality it does add does not justify the cost it is adding to the MacBook lineup. However, I couldn't really go back at this point. I love having mute mic, volume/brightness sliders, etc. right there at my fingertips.

 

[Madhatter32]

The Touch Bar is a clear improvement in my opinion. They can do everything function keys could do, except more. It is customizable, even by 3rd party apps. I think developers, and maybe even Apple, just need to lean into it more. Perhaps Apple will now that the entire MBP lineup has a Touch Bar. Also, I expect a new Magic Keyboard with a Touch Bar to be released that will help them further be able to increase support for it.

I think your point about development is getting long in the tooth already. I mean if Apple actually made it great I think people would be willing to overlook some of their objections (although I doubt a touch typist will ever like it). The touch bar has been around for four years already. How long does it take for developers to maximize its potential? If it has not happened yet, I think you need to ask if they ever will.
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However, I couldn't really go back at this point. I love having mute mic, volume/brightness sliders, etc. right there at my fingertips.

I would just add that I am typing on a 2014 MBP without touch bar and I have those same volume and mute controls on the old keyboard. Other than the novelty of it being a toucb bar screen, I am not sure it is really necessary for anything other than emojis.

 

[hailey bee]

I would agree with every single thing you said... except that we are talking about a multimedia/shortcut control strip. The physical function keys have barely any function (pun intended). You don’t type on the Touch Bar. You use it for a couple of sliders and a context menu option it two. That’s it. For that purpose, it is more useful than the physical keys it replaces.

Those same actions in the established UI model are either put in app's menu, where user can learn shortcut key for it, or in UI itself, explicit to user. Context-sensitive actions, that do not fit in UI – pretty weak concept to base new technology on. Sure, some professions will find extended touch input useful – but those will find proper Sidecar useful even more.

 

[ipponrg]

The Touch Bar is a clear improvement in my opinion. They can do everything function keys could do, except more. It is customizable, even by 3rd party apps. I think developers, and maybe even Apple, just need to lean into it more. Perhaps Apple will now that the entire MBP lineup has a Touch Bar. Also, I expect a new Magic Keyboard with a Touch Bar to be released that will help them further be able to increase support for it.

Aside from that, I think it would be nice if in the next big chassis redesign for MacBooks, they expand the Touch Bar upward into the empty space between the current Touch Bar and bottom bezel of the display. It would be nice to keep more stuff there and make it work as something more like a second screen. Imagine if above the current Touch Bar, you were able to incorporate the Shortcuts app. So you might have "Send a message to X", "Open E-mail", etc.

Lastly, I think a lot of the criticism for the Touch Bar comes from not the idea that it isn't an improvement over function keys, but that the functionality it does add does not justify the cost it is adding to the MacBook lineup. However, I couldn't really go back at this point. I love having mute mic, volume/brightness sliders, etc. right there at my fingertips.

The criticism is that it’s mainly something that no one asked for. It’s a gimmick for most people. The mute mic, volume, and brightness have always been there at your finger tips before the touchbar.

 

[Queen6]

16" MBP didn't have the Touch Bar I'd likely be responding on one, it doesn't so a PC it is. Issues with external displays wouldn't be of concern for my workflow. The Touch Bar for many remains to be an impediment not an advancement.

Apple if you want to market the 16" MBP as a professional notebook, start listening to your users and give them options...

Q-6