AT&T and Apple on "4G"

[famerdave]

I have noticed, even when I am not on HSPA+ (by looking at AT&T's HSPA+ coverage, and by some debug tools) the iPhone still reports "4G".

I think this is Apple's fault, as It reports "4G" even when I'm on standard 3G towers, with speeds at like 3-4Mbps.

When I go into town, where there are REAL "HSPA+" towers, I have seen stuff around 10 - 12mbps.

Why does Apple report your on "4G" even when your not on HSPA+? My brothers Android switches down to just "H" instead of "H+"

 

[dontwalkhand]

This was a huge mess. Apple should have never caved to AT&T's marketing. I am surprised that AT&T hasn't pulled new "We have the only 4G iPhone" out of their butts recently.

 

[cube]

Nobody has 4G.

 

[Applejuiced]

I believe all AT&T towers have been updated to HPSA+ tech but in many of them the backhaul hasnt been updated to support higher speeds than the average 1-3mbps.
And technically HSPA+ under todays standards is allowed to be called 4G technology so AT&T and Tmobile are milking it as much as they can. But its not LTE.

I am surprised that AT&T hasn't pulled new "We have the only 4G iPhone" out of their butts recently.

But they do have the fastest US iphone carrier speeds at the moment.
When and if the next iphone comes it and it includes LTE then it would be a different story.

 

[GeorgieAcevedo]

Nobody has 4G.

I do. Wifi at home.

 

[cube]

I do. Wifi at home.

You don't.

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I believe all AT&T towers have been updated to HPSA+ tech but in many of them the backhaul hasnt been updated to support higher speeds than the average 1-3mbps.
And technically HSPA+ under todays standards is allowed to be called 4G technology so AT&T and Tmobile are milking it as much as they can. But its not LTE.



But they do have the fastest US iphone carrier speeds at the moment.
When and if the next iphone comes it and it includes LTE then it would be a different story.

Nothing is "allowed" to be called 4G. It just happens. 4G is undefined.

 

[unlimitedx]

I like that apple shows LTE (on the iPad) when it's LTE to distinguish between Hspa+

 

[Intell]

Nobody has 4G.

Quite true. Even LTE is only 3.75G.

I believe all AT&T towers have been updated to HPSA+ tech but in many of them the backhaul hasnt been updated to support higher speeds than the average 1-3mbps.

And technically HSPA+ under todays standards is allowed to be called 4G technology so AT&T and Tmobile are milking it as much as they can. But its not LTE.

I've been on some AT&T EDGE towers last month in some very rural areas. While HSPA+ can achieve the needed 100Mbps to be called 4G, it currently maxes out at about 48Mbps.

I do. Wifi at home.

Most home WiFi has an internet connection that maxes out around 25Mpps for cable and 50Mbps for FiOS. DSL is even slower. These speeds translate to 3G speeds for cellular data connections.

 

[Applejuiced]

[/COLOR]

Nothing is "allowed" to be called 4G. It just happens. 4G is undefined.

I think the carriers know that they can get away with it cause if they couldnt they'd be getting sued by now for false advertising.
I read before that HPSA+ can get considered 4G tech but I cant remember the link where it stated it.

I've been on some AT&T EDGE towers last month in some very rural areas. While HSPA+ can achieve the needed 100Mbps to be called 4G, it currently maxes out at about 48Mbps.

Yes, the fastest I see on my 4S is 10mbps down and around 2mbps up.
Not bad still.

 

[cube]

Quite true. Even LTE is only 3.75G.



I've been on some AT&T EDGE towers last month in some very rural areas. While HSPA+ can achieve the needed 100Mbps to be called 4G, it currently maxes out at about 48Mbps.

Speed is not the only requirement for 4G.

A 4G technology should support 100 Mbps in a vehicle, and 1Gbps stationary.

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I think the carriers know that they can get away with it cause if they couldnt they'd be getting sued by now for false advertising.
I read before that HPSA+ can get considered 4G tech but I cant remember the link where it stated it.

There is a lot of misinformation about "authorization".

 

[Applejuiced]

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[/COLOR]

There is a lot of misinformation about "authorization".

I hear you on that

 

[terraphantm]

Speed is not the only requirement for 4G.

A 4G technology should support 100 Mbps in a vehicle, and 1Gbps stationary.

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There is a lot of misinformation about "authorization".

Those speed goals are too ambitious for a 4th generation tech. Speeds like that arent typical even on wired connections. I highly doubt we'll see anything like that until they start working on a 5th generation standard.

In any case, with the ITU's revisions, LTE and HSPA+ are 4G. However, HSPA+ is barely 4G; it's a lot like how EDGE was technically 3G. I think LTE is deserving of the 4G title, because it represents a major change in technology, is an order of magnitude faster than most 3G technologies, has much lower late cues on average, and is generally much more efficient with spectrum use.

 

[cynics]

ITU says its 4g now so that's what it is. If you define something you can redefine it.

The issue is the OP is on standard 3G but the phone reports 4G.

 

[cube]

Those speed goals are too ambitious for a 4th generation tech. Speeds like that arent typical even on wired connections. I highly doubt we'll see anything like that until they start working on a 5th generation standard.

In any case, with the ITU's revisions, LTE and HSPA+ are 4G. However, HSPA+ is barely 4G; it's a lot like how EDGE was technically 3G. I think LTE is deserving of the 4G title, because it represents a major change in technology, is an order of magnitude faster than most 3G technologies, has much lower late cues on average, and is generally much more efficient with spectrum use.

Those are the peak speeds that the technology should support.
ITU said the term 4G is undefined.

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ITU says its 4g now so that's what it is. If you define something you can redefine it.

The issue is the OP is on standard 3G but the phone reports 4G.

ITU only has a 4G candidate, which is LTE-Advanced. They didn't define the term 4G.

 

[famerdave]

I did not really want to start a debate about whether or not HSPA+ can be called "4G"... THE MAIN issue is that Apple reports your on "4G" whether your own HSPA or HSPA+.

 

[terraphantm]

Those are the peak speeds that the technology should support.
ITU said the term 4G is undefined.

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ITU only has a 4G candidate, which is LTE-Advanced. They didn't define the term 4G.

They stated that the technologies that show a "significant improvement over initial 3rd generation offerings" such as HSPA+, LTE, and WiMAX can be called 4G. However, only LTE-advanced and WiMAX 2 can be considered IMT-Advanced.

To quote "although it is recognized that this term, though undefined, may be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMAX, and other 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to initial 3rd generation systems now deployed" That means even though 4g is as of 12/10 undefined, it is not inappropriate to label LTE and WiMAX (and evolutions of HSPA) as 4G. Much in the same way that most MIMO wifi implementations can be called 802.11n

It would be inappropriate to call any of these technologies "IMT-advanced" which is where the 1gbps stationary and 100mbps moving requirements come from.

http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx

 

[cube]

They stated that the technologies that show a "significant improvement over initial 3rd generation offerings" such as HSPA+, LTE, and WiMAX can be called 4G. However, only LTE-advanced and WiMAX 2 can be considered IMT-Advanced.

To quote "although it is recognized that this term, though undefined, may be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMAX, and other 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to initial 3rd generation systems now deployed" That means even though 4g is as of 12/10 undefined, it is not inappropriate to label LTE and WiMAX (and evolutions of HSPA) as 4G. Much in the same way that most MIMO wifi implementations can be called 802.11n

It would be inappropriate to call any of these technologies "IMT-advanced" which is where the 1gbps stationary and 100mbps moving requirements come from.

http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx

They did not authorize anything to be called 4G. 4G is undefined. They just said the term is being used.

 

[PNutts]

I did not really want to start a debate about whether or not HSPA+ can be called "4G"... THE MAIN issue is that Apple reports your on "4G" whether your own HSPA or HSPA+.

I agree. Here's an article that gives some perspective. It's thought that AT&T pressured Apple into changing the indicator for marketing purposes.

Until someone can authoritatively speak to the code behind the display, all we can say is that it met the requirement to display 4G.

 

[cube]

I agree. Here's an article that gives some perspective. It's thought that AT&T pressured Apple into changing the indicator for marketing purposes.

Until someone can authoritatively speak to the code behind the display, all we can say is that it met the requirement to display 4G.

There is no requirement. 4G has no meaning yet.

 

[cynics]

There is no requirement. 4G has no meaning yet.

Its very clearly defined as NOT being standard HSPA.

" Following a detailed evaluation against stringent technical and operational criteria, ITU has determined that “LTE-Advanced” and “WirelessMAN-Advanced” should be accorded the official designation of IMT-Advanced. As the most advanced technologies currently defined for global wireless mobile broadband communications, IMT-Advanced is considered as “4G”, although it is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed. The detailed specifications of the IMT-Advanced technologies will be provided in a new ITU-R Recommendation expected in early 2012."

As much as you keep trying to change the topic of this thread its not what we are talking about.

The question is why does the att iPhone say 4G on standard HSPA when ITU says 4G has to show improvement over current 3G tech. I don't have any problem with HSPA+ being called 4G but just renaming 3G to 4G is the issue we are talking about.