AT&T and Verizon Delay 5G Expansion to Address Aircraft Interference Concerns

[MacRumors]

AT&T and Verizon are delaying the rollout of a new 5G band in order to address concerns about interference with aircraft safety systems, reports The Wall Street Journal.

The two companies were set to launch C-Band spectrum on December 5. The C-band covers radio frequencies between 3.7GHz and 4.2GHz, and it is key for the expansion of 5G networks. AT&T and Verizon are now working with the Federal Aviation Administration to ensure there will be no interference, delaying the 5G deployment until January 5.

On Tuesday, the Federal Aviation Administration issued a warning [PDF] about potential 5G interference with radar altimeters, technology used measure a plane's distance from the ground. In the document, the FAA confirms that there have not been "proven reports" about equipment interference in countries where the spectrum is already available, but the agency still has concerns.

The FAA is asking radio altimeter manufacturers to submit equipment details on devices that are used in airplanes, and it has suggested that companies who produce radio altimeters do detailed testing to determine if the hardware is susceptible to interference from C-band spectrum. Aircraft manufacturers have been asked to submit data on the radio altimeters that are in use and to do their own interference testing.

The CTIA, a trade group representing the wireless industry, has said that C-band spectrum can be safely used without causing interference to aviation equipment, but aviation groups have said that the 5G expansion could result in "major disruptions to passenger air travel, commercial transport, and critical helicopter operations."

AT&T spokesperson Margeret Boles said in a statement that AT&T plans to work with the FCC and FAA to understand the interference concerns. "It is critical that these discussions be informed by the science and the data," she said. "That is the only path to enabling experts and engineers to assess whether any legitimate coexistence issues exist."

Article Link: AT&T and Verizon Delay 5G Expansion to Address Aircraft Interference Concerns

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

Safety comes first! That's Priority #1

 

[JPSaltzman]

AT&T: "But in the meantime, you won't mind the 5G surcharge on your monthly bill, will you?"

 

[LawJolla]

As a pilot, the "phones off" was always silly. (I heard it was really the phone companies pressuring the FAA because the phones quickly switching towers wrecked havoc on their infrastructure)

But the radio altimeter could be a thing. Radio altimeters are crucial for low visibility / "auto land" functionality, and we need to be 100% sure that a 5G tower + phones on final approach doesn't change the altimeter's readings.

 

[liberte1776]

Game point to T-Mobile which apparently does not need to worry about this band?

 

[jz0309]

and how long has the 5G spec inc C band been out? and now there is a concern? I have no issue for ensuring safety, but the timing is something else ... I guess the FAA is not part of the 5G consortium that defines the spec, maybe there is the root cause ...

 

[ss2cire]

No AT&T nor Verizon service around so, meh. Hopefully it gets resolved fairly quick for everyone though

 

[RONS67]

Isn't it convenient that the two largest carriers, who lost out to T-Mobile in spectrum war, have to delay rollout?
According to AT&T rep., their 5G service only applies to downloads. It's still LTE speed for uploads.

 

[gknewell]

That’s cool. I would like my money back now.

 

[Premium1]

So this isn't an issue in other countries that are using C-band? Or T-mo?

 

[840quadra]

Great, just when we thought cellular was not much of an impact on aviation. Not that I would test it.

So is it okay to slap the phone out of people's hands that leave their cellular on during takeoff and shortly before landing.

Pet peeve of mine to this day. Yes your Snapchat is more important than the lives of EVERYONE on this flight.

 

[Born Again]

anyone old enough to remember when you had an incoming cellphone call your speakers would go BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[zombierunner]

5G uWu

 

[miniyou64]

AT&T is a company that loves to scam their customers. Few companies are as evil as they are. Strongly considering Verizon

 

[jazz1]

AT&T is a company that loves to scam their customers. Few companies are as evil as they are. Strongly considering Verizon

I just returned a new iPhone 13 purchased from an Apple Store for my spouse, via an ATT rebate/trade-in deal recommended by the Apple salesperson. It seemed like a good deal until I discovered the phone has to be unlocked in order to put my spouse's work phone (Verizon) on it. Even if we buy it outright, it takes 60 days to get it unlocked, and of course we lose the $800.00 trade-in deal. Thank you ATT for nothing!

 

[canyonblue737]

Ok, just so people understand what this practically means... (I am an airline pilot)

1) the concern is with specific new 5G bands and won't shutoff 5G all around the nation.

2) the issue is in regards to radio altimeters that bounce a signal directly off the terrain below to measure that distance when the airplane is usually less than 1500 ft above the ground (think of a boat depth finder, but for planes.) we use this distance to more accurately guage height above terrain when low to the ground than conventional altimeters and use the data for a host of other systems including determining minimum approach heights, inappropriate descent rate warnings, windshear alerts and more.

3) this issue ONLY applies to 5G when it is near an airport and near a final approach path... perhaps a couple miles at most from the airport. it won't affect the rollout of 5G that isn't near airports as radio altimeters are only in use when close to an airport. it is true that providers like verizon seem to be prioritizing putting 5G and 5G ultra wideband near airports (to certainly seems the most common place i find it) so there is that, but it doesn't mean they can't put it elsewhere in the meantime.

4) it's likely there will turn out to be no issue and no interference, but let them check. if there is there might be ways to mitigate it but that would delay the rollout of the tech near airports.

for example is a proposed temporary 5G restriction zone around an airport in Canada... it isn't like this is a massive area we are talking about, and hopefully temporary.

 

[goobot]

The whole 5G rollout has been terrible, I still don’t get ltea where I live and I live in a densely populated area

 

[acorntoy]

Ok, just so people understand what this practically means... (I am an airline pilot)

1) the concern is with specific new 5G bands and won't shutoff 5G all around the nation.

2) the issue is in regards to radio altimeters that bounce a signal directly off the terrain below to measure that distance when the airplane is usually less than 1500 ft above the ground (think of a boat depth finder, but for planes.) we use this distance to more accurately guage height above terrain when low to the ground than conventional altimeters and use the data for a host of other systems including determining minimum approach heights, inappropriate descent rate warnings, windshear alerts and more.

3) this issue ONLY applies to 5G when it is near an airport and near a final approach path... perhaps a couple miles at most from the airport. it won't affect the rollout of 5G that isn't near airports as radio altimeters are only in use when close to an airport. it is true that providers like verizon seem to be prioritizing putting 5G and 5G ultra wideband near airports (to certainly seems the most common place i find it) so there is that, but it doesn't mean they can't put it elsewhere in the meantime.

4) it's likely there will turn out to be no issue and no interference, but let them check. if there is there might be ways to mitigate it but that would delay the rollout of the tech near airports.

for example is a proposed temporary 5G restriction zone around an airport in Canada... it isn't like this is a massive area we are talking about, and hopefully temporary.

View attachment 1902872

If it DID interfere could it create a problem like Turkish airlines 1951 where the plane believes its lower than it actually is?

 

[urnotl33t]

If it DID interfere could it create a problem like Turkish airlines 1951 were the plane could believe it was lower than it is?

Yep.

 

[crisss1205]

and how long has the 5G spec inc C band been out? and now there is a concern? I have no issue for ensuring safety, but the timing is something else ... I guess the FAA is not part of the 5G consortium that defines the spec, maybe there is the root cause ...

C-band is going to use spectrum that’s already being used. That’s what’s so stupid about this. This is not a new frequency. This frequency has been used by satellite dishes for decades.

 

[SFjohn]

So this isn't an issue in other countries that are using C-band? Or T-mo?

Nope, but the FAA wants to be 200% sure…

 

[acorntoy]

Great, just when we thought cellular was not much of an impact on aviation. Not that I would test it.

So is it okay to slap the phone out of people's hands that leave their cellular on during takeoff and shortly before landing.

Pet peeve of mine to this day. Yes your Snapchat is more important than the lives of EVERYONE on this flight.

I remember being 8 year old scared of flying being forced to, and the businessman three seats back won’t get off the damn phone.

Also remember a time when I checked my phone and realized I had 2 bars of LTE at cruising altitude and never turned on airplane mode.

 

[mavere]

n78 C-Band has been in use in Europe and Asia. Do these planes switch to a different set of equipment when landing overseas? Why would it be a problem here in the US but not somewhere else?

A part of me wonder how much of this is just US alphabet agencies beating their chests against one another.

 

[acorntoy]

n78 C-Band has been in use in Europe and Asia. Do these planes switch to a different set of equipment when landing overseas? Why would it be a problem here in the US but not somewhere else?

A part of me wonder how much of this is just US alphabet agencies beating their chests against one another.

The bands are in much less use in Europe than the US. Its why Apple only ships UWB 5G devices to the US. Worldwide models include 5G but not UWB support. It might be 1/million but planes have gone down from rarer chances, I don’t want my plane going down because somebody needs to download “Barb and Star go to Del Mar” faster on 5G in the terminal.

 

[SFjohn]

I just returned a new iPhone 13 purchased from an Apple Store for my spouse, via an ATT rebate/trade-in deal recommended by the Apple salesperson. It seemed like a good deal until I discovered the phone has to be unlocked in order to put my spouse's work phone (Verizon) on it. Even if we buy it outright, it takes 60 days to get it unlocked, and of course we loose the $800.00 trade-in deal. Thank you ATT for nothing!

You can buy your iPhones unlocked & not tied to any service provider. You don’t get that discount, but you don’t get hassled later. That’s what I do when I buy.