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Nicholas Mosher

Nicholas Mosher

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 1, 2007
43
0
Massachusetts
Well I'm planning on going back to a PC for my next computer this spring. As much as I love my Macbook and iPhone, Apple simply doesn't have a desktop that fits my needs. The Mac Pro has way more than I need, and the iMac not enough.

I wish Apple would build something along the lines of a Mac Pro with a single Core 2 Duo and good GPU options. 2-4GB of RAM and a single HDD would be plenty.

I'll keep my Macbook and iPhone while on the go, but it's back to the blue screen of death for serious productivity I guess.
 
How does the iMac not fit that role perfectly? An entry-level one has the following specs:
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
320GB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB memory

Isn't that exactly what you listed as wanting?
 
The machine that is overkill for your needs now, is the perfect machine for your needs in 18-36 months time and for a very long time after that. ;)
 
livingfortoday said:
How does the iMac not fit that role perfectly? An entry-level one has the following specs:
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
320GB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB memory

Isn't that exactly what you listed as wanting?
Click to expand...

he listed good gpu options. also id assume a headless unit is a want as well which is understandable
 
Yeah.. I want a "headless iMac" too. I have an old G5 and will be being or building a new computer by February. Apple has to step up for me to get a new Mac.
 
Why not a refurb? You would get a bit of future proofing without spending a lot of lettuce. I can't think of anything that would make me switch to windows. I have all I can take of it at work. If fact if you call our help desk with a problem, the first thing they tell you/ask you is to reboot. Bllllaaaaahhh.
 
Problem with this is that the buyer has spent much more money than needed right now. 3 years from now, the extra money spent on this 'overkill' computer would be wasted because he/she can bank the difference in cost and put it towards a current future machine.

So lets say if a machine costs $1000 now (headless) and provides a baseline speed of 1.0 (arbitrary number). Lets say the user only needs a performance of 0.75 so its close to what he/she needs. Lets say the overkill machine costs $2000 and provides a performance rating of 1.5.

In 3 years lets say the same tasks he's doing now may require a rating of 1.25so the $1000 machine is not quite good enough but the $2000 machine is good enough. Now if he had just bought the $1000 machine three years back, he could today spend the other $1000 and maybe get a current machine that gets a speed rating of 3.0. Where the older overkill machine may be done and over with in a year, this machine might last him/her another 2-3 years.



Blue Velvet said:
The machine that is overkill for your needs now, is the perfect machine for your needs in 18-36 months time and for a very long time after that. ;)
Click to expand...
 
contoursvt said:
Problem with this is that the buyer has spent much more money than needed right now. 3 years from now, the extra money spent on this 'overkill' computer would be wasted because he/she can bank the difference in cost and put it towards a current future machine.

So lets say if a machine costs $1000 now (headless) and provides a baseline speed of 1.0 (arbitrary number). Lets say the user only needs a performance of 0.75 so its close to what he/she needs. Lets say the overkill machine costs $2000 and provides a performance rating of 1.5.

In 3 years lets say the same tasks he's doing now may require a rating of 1.25so the $1000 machine is not quite good enough but the $2000 machine is good enough. Now if he had just bought the $1000 machine three years back, he could today spend the other $1000 and maybe get a current machine that gets a speed rating of 3.0. Where the older overkill machine may be done and over with in a year, this machine might last him/her another 2-3 years.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Buy an inexpensive machine now that'll get the job done (like an iMac), and you can upgrade it in a year to another top-notch machine. You'll get more usable service at a much lower price than if you bank it all on one horse now, and find yourself stuck with an aged beast you can't afford to upgrade for the next five years.
 
contoursvt said:
Problem with this is that the buyer has spent much more money than needed right now. 3 years from now, the extra money spent on this 'overkill' computer would be wasted because he/she can bank the difference in cost and put it towards a current future machine.

So lets say if a machine costs $1000 now (headless) and provides a baseline speed of 1.0 (arbitrary number). Lets say the user only needs a performance of 0.75 so its close to what he/she needs. Lets say the overkill machine costs $2000 and provides a performance rating of 1.5.

In 3 years lets say the same tasks he's doing now may require a rating of 1.25so the $1000 machine is not quite good enough but the $2000 machine is good enough. Now if he had just bought the $1000 machine three years back, he could today spend the other $1000 and maybe get a current machine that gets a speed rating of 3.0. Where the older overkill machine may be done and over with in a year, this machine might last him/her another 2-3 years.
Click to expand...

I get your point but it's very verbose. But as I said, I do understand.

dukebound85 said:
he listed good gpu options. also id assume a headless unit is a want as well which is understandable
Click to expand...

The main reason for Apple needing the headless Mac, and why the iMac is still on the consumer side no matter how hard Apple will try.

Nicholas Mosher said:
Well I'm planning on going back to a PC for my next computer this spring. As much as I love my Macbook and iPhone, Apple simply doesn't have a desktop that fits my needs. The Mac Pro has way more than I need, and the iMac not enough.

I wish Apple would build something along the lines of a Mac Pro with a single Core 2 Duo and good GPU options. 2-4GB of RAM and a single HDD would be plenty.

I'll keep my Macbook and iPhone while on the go, but it's back to the blue screen of death for serious productivity I guess.
Click to expand...

You aren't the only person in that market, and the topic has been done to death beyond anything you could ever imagine. I hope the Mods make a sticky out of the topic.

Either way, my next machine MAY just be a PC if the 17" MBP turns out to be a flop in terms of features and BTO options. I am at least looking for a slight redesign with magnetic latch and some kind of Solid State Drive addition that adds to the functionality of the machine.
 
PS I know this from experience because 3 years ago I built a sick computer (I'm a PC guy mostly). It was a server chassis, dual xeon 3Ghz processors, 3GB RAM, ATI X800XT-PE video, SCSI drives...etc. By no means is it a slow computer today BUT...

I built a quad core Q6600 system a few months ago with 4GB RAM, 7950GT 512MB card in a nice Antec case for only a 1/3 of the cost. I did move the expensive SCSI drives over so I guess really it would have been half the price of the old system not a third, but its got double the processing power.

I should have purchased a normal computer back then and saved the extra. Right now I have a 70lb dual xeon box which serves as my TEST machine. LOL. It doesnt have PCI-E either. PCI-X and AGP so it would be hard for me to sell it too I'm sure.
 
Imac is a piece of crap, I would only take one for free :) I think the OP makes a good point. Additionally, it's taking apple way too long to roll out their updated versions of the mac pros.
 
The only problem I have with building my own machine is the lack of good multimedia software. Adobe would be the main suite of apps to use, but there is no replacement for Aperture and it's compatibility with Final Cut Pro, and there is nothing in the line of Time Machine, and the other useful features of Leopard.
 
A piece-o-crap?

davewolfs said:
Imac is a piece of crap, I would only take one for free :) I think the OP makes a good point. Additionally, it's taking apple way too long to roll out their updated versions of the mac pros.
Click to expand...

As my name says, I am a graphic designer. I have had all desktop Apple computers since 1988. They have always been a tower and a separate monitor. My last desktop was a duelie G4 1.25 machines with 2GB of RAM. I used all of the Adobe pro applications,, freehand, and dreamweaver.

This past August the G4 was becoming toast! I had to consider a new machine. The MacPro was just to much of a machine for me. I only needed 2 HD bays at the most! (Had 2 80GB HD in the G4 and they were no where near full.)

I to wanted a headless machine, but knew that Apple was not going to do this in the near or distant future! Therefore, my only choice was a 24" i,ac extreme! I maxed out the RAM to 4GB. I have had the imac for 6 weeks now, and I am more than pleased with its performance etc., so in my opinion, your comment about an iMac being crap has NO foundation!
 
I guess I'm a bit different as I dont do a lot of video work. I currently have the following installed on my box. Dont laugh at some of the basic or outdated software :)

-Vista64 as my primary OS
-Photoshop 6.0 purchased ages ago (for my photo editing needs)
-Picasa as album and convenient viewer app.
-Office 2003 student edition even though I'm not really a student
-Nero Ultra 6.3 (kinda old but works fine)
-Virtualdub for video conversion and trimming and some effects
-Windows DVD maker in vista. It fits my basic needs
-Winamp for audio playback
-Media player for video playback
-Audacity for my audio editing needs
-EAC and Flac for encoding my music
-DVD Shrink for any DVD ripping needs
-7Zip for compressing and decompressing files
-Quicktime Pro for encoding stuff to quicktime format

I dont store any data locally on my computer. My "documents" folder is mounted on a network server which is a dual PIII Dell server running Windows 2000 server with 2 SCSI system drives and four 500GB SATA drives. Two 500's are data and two are backup. Each week, a full backup is done and then during the weekday, incremental backups done. My backup is recycled automatically each week so its not for archive, just disaster recovery. Its scheduled and just uses windows backup so really its a set it and forget it thing for me.

Digital Skunk said:
The only problem I have with building my own machine is the lack of good multimedia software. Adobe would be the main suite of apps to use, but there is no replacement for Aperture and it's compatibility with Final Cut Pro, and there is nothing in the line of Time Machine, and the other useful features of Leopard.
Click to expand...
 
I think the imac "being crap" in the eyes of some is more due to the fact that its not internally upgradable for hard drive space nor can you add more USB or firewire ports if needed via a PCI card for example. If you did want a bit more GPU power for games or 3D modeling if you did ever get into that, you'd be stuck. If the monitor fails or you get tired of the screen (its a glossy screen on those no?) you have no choice but to swap the computer because they are a single unit. If the computer ever dies, you cant really use the screen for anything either. The whole thing basically gets trashed.

So in that respect its not so good, but as a main computer with a single drive, its fine as long as you dont mind having some external drives which means additional cables and power adaptors cluttering things up a bit. Also not sure about you but I have never had great success with external drives. For whatever reason, they always fail on me long before any issues with internal drives come up.

DesignerOnMac said:
As my name says, I am a graphic designer. I have had all desktop Apple computers since 1988. They have always been a tower and a separate monitor. My last desktop was a duelie G4 1.25 machines with 2GB of RAM. I used all of the Adobe pro applications,, freehand, and dreamweaver.

This past August the G4 was becoming toast! I had to consider a new machine. The MacPro was just to much of a machine for me. I only needed 2 HD bays at the most! (Had 2 80GB HD in the G4 and they were no where near full.)

I to wanted a headless machine, but knew that Apple was not going to do this in the near or distant future! Therefore, my only choice was a 24" i,ac extreme! I maxed out the RAM to 4GB. I have had the imac for 6 weeks now, and I am more than pleased with its performance etc., so in my opinion, your comment about an iMac being crap has NO foundation!
Click to expand...
 
i didn't care for your post. It didn't fit my needs. I'm switching to someone else next spring too.

;-P
 
contoursvt said:
I guess I'm a bit different as I dont do a lot of video work. I currently have the following installed on my box. Dont laugh at some of the basic or outdated software :)

-Vista64 as my primary OS
-Photoshop 6.0 purchased ages ago (for my photo editing needs)
-Office 2003 student edition even though I'm not really a student
-Nero Ultra 6.3 (kinda old but works fine)
-Virtualdub for video conversion and trimming and some effects
-Windows DVD maker in vista. It fits my basic needs
-Winamp for audio playback
-Media player for video playback
-Audacity for my audio editing needs
-EAC and Flac for encoding my music
-DVD Shrink for any DVD ripping needs
-7Zip for compressing and decompressing files
-Quicktime Pro for encoding stuff to quicktime format

I dont store any data locally on my computer. My "documents" folder is mounted on a network server which is a dual PIII Dell server running Windows 2000 server with 2 SCSI system drives and four 500GB SATA drives. Two 500's are data and two are backup. Each week, a full backup is done and then during the weekday, incremental backups done. My backup is recycled automatically each week so its not for archive, just disaster recovery. Its scheduled and just uses windows backup so really its a set it and forget it thing for me.
Click to expand...

I can't laugh at anyone's system that gets the job done.

The reason I made the switch back in 2004 was because I could do all of that software on the list with 4 suites of apps and three independant App.

Now I use:

- Adobe Creative Suite Web Premium
- Final Cut Studio Pro 1
- iLife 06 from time to time, iWeb mostly
- iWork
- Aperture
- MPEG Streamclip
- Quicktime Pro/Flip 4 Mac, it comes with the Mac anyway.

I use to use Avid Express Pro (Avid Media Composer is WAY better than FCP but I don't have the $10,000 to spend on it) various Adobe apps, various Boris Effects apps and plug ins, MS word, some cheap DVD authoring program by Sonic or Roxio, and AVG Free virus protection. It worked very well, but the other added benefit behind having all the apps in suites and on the Mac is their integration. Aperture, FCP, iWork, iLife, and Mac OS X all sync with each other deeper than I could have ever imagined. I can have a photo in Aperture and access it through all the Apple apps that may need it as well as any video files, music, and other graphics.
 
Software is also starting to become a limiting factor with my schooling. AutoCAD, VB.NET, C++, Java... I can run Mathematica and MS Office on my Macbook, but a lot of the other stuff is PC only.

I love how stable my Apple products are, but right now I feel like I'm being forced to compromise too much for a product. Either spend a butt-load for a unit that is way more than I need, or make concessions on the GPU, expandability, and form factor with an iMac.

My new PC will use general consumer parts (C2D vs Xeon, An 8 Series nVidia card vs Quadro). Before my current Mac I built my own PCs. I've been fishing around on newegg all week checking out all the new MOBO options.

Really is unfortunate though. I want to use OS-X. My girlfriend's father is also in the market for a new computer. He uses productivity software 50% of the time, and games 50% of the time. I advised him to go with a PC as well. The iMacs didn't have the GPU requirements for the level of game play he expects, and the Mac Pro was simply out of his budget.

Well, off to get some homework done. I just wanted to express this opinion seeing as many other have it, and Apple reads these things from time to time.
 
Techguy172 said:
Here's something to remember the Expensive "overKill" computer will last longer because you went cheap with everything including components.
Click to expand...

That isn't necessarily true if you're buying both computers from the same manufacturer. If you buy a top of the line MBP, it's not going to last (parts-wise) longer than a baseline MBP. Ditto for MPs or iMacs or MBs. I think this only factors in if you're comparing a TOTL model from Manufacturer A to a closeout barebones model from Manufacturer B.
 
livingfortoday said:
How does the iMac not fit that role perfectly? An entry-level one has the following specs:
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
320GB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB memory

Isn't that exactly what you listed as wanting?
Click to expand...

Laptop components with the associated laptop performance VS a desktop with 7200rpm drivers, better GPU etc..

Apple does not offer a non pro desktop and all in ones are niche products for a select population.
 
Nicholas Mosher said:
Software is also starting to become a limiting factor with my schooling. AutoCAD, VB.NET, C++, Java... I can run Mathematica and MS Office on my Macbook, but a lot of the other stuff is PC only.

I love how stable my Apple products are, but right now I feel like I'm being forced to compromise too much for a product. Either spend a butt-load for a unit that is way more than I need, or make concessions on the GPU, expandability, and form factor with an iMac.

My new PC will use general consumer parts (C2D vs Xeon, An 8 Series nVidia card vs Quadro). Before my current Mac I built my own PCs. I've been fishing around on newegg all week checking out all the new MOBO options.

Really is unfortunate though. I want to use OS-X. My girlfriend's father is also in the market for a new computer. He uses productivity software 50% of the time, and games 50% of the time. I advised him to go with a PC as well. The iMacs didn't have the GPU requirements for the level of game play he expects, and the Mac Pro was simply out of his budget.

Well, off to get some homework done. I just wanted to express this opinion seeing as many other have it, and Apple reads these things from time to time.
Click to expand...

If you have to compromise on software that is needed to do your job then you should be grabbing the equipment that doesn't let that happen. Either run Windows on the Mac or grab that PC.

I feel your pain, unfortunately I can't make the choice to go with Windows just yet, so I am going for the Mac Pro.
 
I'm sadly making the switch back to PC for a while, too. I love my trusty iBook, which I still plan to use often. I'm in the market for a new desktop, though, and building a PC is just way more cost-effective for me right now (~$500). I'm not crazy about the looks of the new iMacs, and I'm not digging the glossy screen and relatively crappy video card, etc. I'd love to be able to run Leopard, but I don't hate Windows, so I'm OK with running XP or Vista or whatever. It also helps that I get both of those for free through Penn State's MSDNAA program. :cool:
 
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