Backup advice

[deany]

Hi

I'm backing up as follows:

• Time machine to Time Capsule

copy Parallels .pvm file to TC

• CCC TC to USB 3 spinning drive (to speed things up I copy the .pvm to the USB 3 drive before clone) I keep this drive under the passenger seat of car

• Backblaze to cloud

Three questions please.
>How reliable are TM backups? is "verify backup important" is there a way to check all is okay?
https://www.lifewire.com/verify-time-machine-backups-2260096

>Is it okay to clone the TM backup to the USB 3 drive backup verses a rMBP to USB 3 CCC backup?

I have decided that keeping my USB 3 backup under the passenger seat of my car is not ideal.

I have bought an inexpensive safe that I'm going to set in concrete in the garden and cover with an orniment.

The USB 3 drive is in a hard case and I was going to keep in a zip lock bag to protect against moisture / damp.

>With temperature at a possible - 10c in the winter and damp with the WD spinning drive be okay in a safe in the ground?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mikael H]

Encrypting your backups and asking a friend to store the drive at their place sounds a lot less prone to damage. Get two drives and alternate between them if your data changes a lot.

Regarding digging your drive down into the ground: You have to think about dew-points, not only temperature, or the insides of your plastic zip-bag will still get wet from condensation.

 

[deany]

Encrypting your backups and asking a friend to store the drive at their place sounds a lot less prone to damage. Get two drives and alternate between them if your data changes a lot.

Regarding digging your drive down into the ground: You have to think about dew-points, not only temperature, or the insides of your plastic zip-bag will still get wet from condensation.

Hi
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to write your helpful post.
I never thought of dew point thanks you. If I used vacuum packs and used a Dyson to remove the air would that be okay do you think?
Thanks again

 

[Mikael H]

Hi
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to write your helpful post.
I never thought of dew point thanks you. If I used vacuum packs and used a Dyson to remove the air would that be okay do you think?
Thanks again

Not sure, really, I'm not an expert, but there's a reason for why gear ships with those white silica gel bags. I'd say that if you manage to create a near-vacuum in the bag, and provided the bag doesn't break, you'd probably be good to go, as long as the temperatures don't drop below the manufacturer's stated minimum storage temperature. Also, if you ever need to dig the backup disk out, you'll want to let it rest unpowered until it's at least close to room temperature.

 

[Fishrrman]

Stop worrying.
You're more completely "backed up" than 98+% of the computer-using population.

I would reckon that your most reliable backup in "a moment of extreme need" would be the CCC backup you keep under the car seat.

My only problem with that -might be- if it were a platter-based HDD, subject to heat and cold.
I use USB flash drives and SSD's for my own "car-stored" backups...

 

[deany]

Stop worrying.
You're more completely "backed up" than 98+% of the computer-using population.

I would reckon that your most reliable backup in "a moment of extreme need" would be the CCC backup you keep under the car seat.

My only problem with that -might be- if it were a platter-based HDD, subject to heat and cold.
I use USB flash drives and SSD's for my own "car-stored" backups...

Hi
Thanks for your reply the drive is not SSD unfortunately https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FZU9JYI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
can I ask what SSD external backup drive you use
thanks

 

[Fishrrman]

deany wrote:
"can I ask what SSD external backup drive you use"

It doesn't really matter.
Any one will do, it's only a backup.
This is one place I wouldn't spend extra $$ for "the fastest" SSD out there...

 

[deany]

deany wrote:
"can I ask what SSD external backup drive you use"

It doesn't really matter.
Any one will do, it's only a backup.
This is one place I wouldn't spend extra $$ for "the fastest" SSD out there...

Hi
But SSD is better than spinning if you are putting it in a safe underground?
thanks

 

[zhenya]

No. SSD's are not suitable for archival storage. http://www.anandtech.com/show/9248/the-truth-about-ssd-data-retention

Platter drives are better, but the best we have at the moment is probably archival grade optical disc.

 

[Fishrrman]

"SSD's are not suitable for archival storage."

We're not talking about "archival storage".
We're talking about backups.

A backup is something that gets updated periodically.
It needs to last only until the next update -- or if a restoration is required between incremental backups.

I keep an SSD backup in my car.
It gets "refreshed" periodically.
If something goes wrong with it, I'll find out at the incremental backup.
If something IS wrong with it, I'll just substitute another drive and start over.

I agree that for "long-term archival", perhaps the best media is something like M-DISC BluRays. This is for when you do a write that will not be updated or over-written. It will just "sit there" over time.

But most backups aren't like that.
They're going to be refreshed from time to time, at which times problems (if they exist) will reveal themselves...

 

[deany]

Thanks to everyones replies so far.
-20 to 65 degrees is the non operational temp min and max

http://samsunghdd.seagate.com/includes/m3-portable-usb3-ds.pdf

I try and backup for offsite weekly

I guess its just the damp that @Mikael H mentioned.

The drive is spinning.

 

[Rockadile]

I think laptop straight to external drive via CCC is better than copying the TM over.
You can do bootable clone and it does smart update. No downtime recovering from TM backup?

I've read the TM backup can corrupt sometimes but you should still use it for convenience and it's still another source of backup regardless.

 

[deany]

I think laptop straight to external drive via CCC is better than copying the TM over.
You can do bootable clone and it does smart update. No downtime recovering from TM backup?

I've read the TM backup can corrupt sometimes but you should still use it for convenience and it's still another source of backup regardless.

Hi

Thanks for the reply.

That was a concern that I was maybe copying a corrupt copy.

The stories of corrupt TM backups are worrisome I must say. But I don't fully understand this and how much data folk have lost. Also whether apple have now fixed issues with new macOS

I do find the TC to USB 3 CCC convenient (I guess because thats how I've always done it) and have used the verify backup option (although I'm not entirely sure if that helps to pick up on corrupt data).

Maybe I should change to CCC Mac straight to USB 3 for off site.

 

[zhenya]

"SSD's are not suitable for archival storage."

We're not talking about "archival storage".
We're talking about backups.

A backup is something that gets updated periodically.
It needs to last only until the next update -- or if a restoration is required between incremental backups.

I keep an SSD backup in my car.
It gets "refreshed" periodically.
If something goes wrong with it, I'll find out at the incremental backup.
If something IS wrong with it, I'll just substitute another drive and start over.

I agree that for "long-term archival", perhaps the best media is something like M-DISC BluRays. This is for when you do a write that will not be updated or over-written. It will just "sit there" over time.

But most backups aren't like that.
They're going to be refreshed from time to time, at which times problems (if they exist) will reveal themselves...

A safe in the ground with someone going through the trouble to vacuum pack the drive sounds to me awful similar to archival storage. Even if he intends to update it every few months, humans are fallible and after some time, that could easily slip to 6 months, a year, more, which is all well within the timespans where SSD's may begin to lose data.

In any case, there is no real benefit to an SSD in this application, and potentially a lot of downside.

 

[Fishrrman]

deany wrote:
"I do find the TC to USB 3 CCC convenient (I guess because thats how I've always done it) and have used the verify backup option (although I'm not entirely sure if that helps to pick up on corrupt data).
Maybe I should change to CCC Mac straight to USB 3 for off site."

You DO NOT want to do, what you're doing now.

The whole point of a "cloned bootable backup" is that it serves as AN EXACT COPY of your boot volume -- NOT of your TM backup!

You DO want to use CCC to clone DIRECTLY from your Mac to the backup drive.

And when the cloned backup is done, TEST IT by doing a test boot from it.

Got that?