Backup Fatigue

[honeycombz]

Hi, I am responsible for multiple machines at home, and at office, like 8-10 different machines plus multiple iphones and an ipad. The syncing, the backing up, data management is wearing on me. I am not one who really wants to use cloud storage, nor do I use Time Machine. Typically I just buy hard drives and use SuperDuper to clone drives and make redundant backups but it seems like I am buying new and larger storage annually and no longer have the time for all this and it is getting disorganized and I am tired of constantly buying new and larger hard drives. What the hell is going to happen in 10-50 years when my kid wants to look at these photos? Or whatever. I don't understand data anymore and sick of backing up. Feels like I need to start over or something with a new method. Any advice?

 

[honeycombz]

Maybe I should just get one of these and a couple WD Blue 8TB HDDs and just start over

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1661743-REG/sabrent_ec_dffn_usb_3_0_sata.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smpadsrd=&store=420&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A402&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22585675358&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIypyW59HpjQMVCEL_AR0WpQYjEAQYAiABEgKld_D_BwE

 

[benwiggy]

nor do I use Time Machine

Wy not? For desk-bound machines, there is nothing simpler or more effective. Plug in, set up, and you're done.

For portables, who don't want large lumpy things attached, then you really need to consider a NAS. Whether you use TM or rsync or any of the legion of sync/backup apps that handle it for you -- Chronosync, Resilio Sync, etc -- is up to you.

But I wouldn't waste a moment actually manually overseeing backups.

Usual recommendations for TM drives are to be 2 to 3 times the size of the data that you're backing up.

I charge my phone every night by plugging it into my Mac, which also then backs it up locally.

 

[russell_314]

The syncing, the backing up, data management is wearing on me. I am not one who really wants to use cloud storage, nor do I use Time Machine.

well, that’s the two easy ways to do it. Either some type of cloud back up or Time Machine. It seems like you’re doing it the hard way and then not happy because it’s hard.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

I am not one who really wants to use cloud storage... Any advice?

Change your mind about cloud storage. It makes backups SO SO SO much simpler.

 

[CalMin]

Change your mind about cloud storage. It makes backups SO SO SO much simpler.

I use cloud storage but only of stuff that I have a copy of elsewhere. I never count on not falling out with Apple/Google/Microsoft and then losing access to my stuff. iCloud accounts get locked, Google Drive has 'lost data' and OneDrive is tied to ever more expensive Office subscriptions. Sure these are rare, but it does happen.

I also use a NAS and just Time Machine to it and then I back up my NAS because, well, RAID is not a backup. I don't have an offsite solution, so there's vulnerability there, but I think I'm safer than 90% of consumers, so I live with that risk and know that my most precious photos and indispensable files are in the cloud as well. Today's problem is that my 20TB RAID is 90% full, so I need to upgrade - which won't be fun for all that data.

For me, automation is the key. Anything that requires me to plug something in, initiate something, or connect to something will not be reliable.

 

[eyoungren]

Wy not? For desk-bound machines, there is nothing simpler or more effective. Plug in, set up, and you're done.

Except, perhaps, if the majority of your Macs are 2011 or older. I don't have anything newer to test Time Machine with and my work Macs aren't backed up (not my responsibility).

Have you ever tried to relocate a TM sparsebundle image backup from one spot to another? Dang near impossible. I'm sure if you've got an external drive directly hooked up to your Mac that TM backups are easy and worry free. My backups go to my NAS and Time Machine, in my experience, really doesn't like network backups.

I've never had to use TM to restore a machine, so I can't really speak to that process on whether it's easy or not. However, the few times I've had to restore a Mac from backup, it's been an easy matter of copying the last backup drive image from one spot to another and then using Carbon Copy Cloner to restore from the drive image. So, that's what I use - Carbon Copy Cloner.

Daily backups using CCC go off to my NAS and weekly backups go off to my Dropbox folder on my 2009 MacPro. That gives me one local copy and one off-site copy. This process is the same on all my Macs - eliminating having to provide external drives for TM backups to several Macs.

 

[smirking]

in my experience, really doesn't like network backups.

I used to think that too, but when I recently upgraded my WiFi network, I realized that I had been using older Cat5 and even Cat4 cables to connect my Time Capsule to my network. I just assumed they were Cat6 cables over a decade ago and never bothered to check!

I've since upgraded to faster routers and replaced all of my Ethernet cables. Time Machine works absolutely fine on my Synology 2-bay entry-level NAS. I've even done a full laptop restore off of it over the network and it worked beautifully.

 

[eyoungren]

I used to think that too, but when I recently upgraded my WiFi network, I realized that I had been using older Cat5 and even Cat4 cables to connect my Time Capsule to my network. I just assumed they were Cat6 cables over a decade ago and never bothered to check!

I've since upgraded to faster routers and replaced all of my Ethernet cables. Time Machine works absolutely fine on my Synology 2-bay entry-level NAS. I've even done a full laptop restore off of it over the network and it worked beautifully.

Yeah, I'm using a mix of Cat 5e and Cat 6. Seven years ago I upgraded our home network to Gig-E (router and switch). With the exception of iDevices, most of the stuff on my home network is ethernet. I pay my ISP for Gig-E speeds and I don't/won't get that over WiFi.

But this is also why I was trying to caveat things concerning the age of my Macs. Collectively there is a mix of OS from Tiger to Sonoma. But only two of my Macs are using Sonoma. That's a 2008 MBP and my 2009 MacPro. But my backup process that I use now got established when my primary OS was largely Mojave.

I acknowledge that TM is most likely better now, but I've already got my own process at this point. And for me, it's just easier to move a drive image around and then restore from it than going through any machinations to restore from a TM backup.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I use a Synology NAS. It sits in my garage and backs up all of my macs. I recommend not putting a backup disk on your desk, because anything that takes out the desk could just as easily take out the backup - Something like a water leak above your desk would be bad for your backups.

My Synology has an app that lets me dump data onto Amazon Glacier S3. It's very cheap to store data, but hella expensive to retrieve data - in other words, it's fantastic for an encrypted off-site backup.

I pay 99 cents for iCloud, and once a year dump my photos onto my NAS, which gets backed up to AWS. It's about as easy-peasy as it comes, and because it's being encrypted on my end, there's no worry about someone hacking into my wedding and baby photos.

I'd really recommend re-thinking your backup strategy, because it sounds like what you're doing now is the worst of all possible scenarios.

 

[benwiggy]

Except, perhaps, if the majority of your Macs are 2011 or older. Collectively there is a mix of OS from Tiger to Sonoma.

TM has been working fine since Leopard in 2007. (Do you really still use the Tiger MBP...?)


From the rest of what you say, you've already got a NAS setup -- so is your problem just not having the backups done automatically?

As said, there are any number of apps that will manage that for you.

 

[eyoungren]

TM has been working fine since Leopard in 2007. (Do you really still use the Tiger MBP...?)

The Mac running Tiger (Server) is a B&W G3. It hasn't been on in a while, but it was running for several years. Next is my 17" PowerBook G4 running Leopard. I have two 2009 Minis running Catalina and a 2006 Mini running Snow Leopard. There is a 2006 17" MBP running Snow Leopard, a 2008 MBP running Sonoma and my 2009 MacPro running Sonoma.

From 2017 to 2020 my primary Mac was a PowerMac G5 Quad.

From the rest of what you say, you've already got a NAS setup -- so is your problem just not having the backups done automatically?

As said, there are any number of apps that will manage that for you.

Most of my difficulties came from around 2014 to about 2018 when the primary Macs in the house were all PowerPC and limited to Leopard max. There were eventually Intels in the house and that max went up to Snow Leopard by 2018.

• Time Machine had to sometimes be forced to use a network share for backup.

• Time Machine would initiate a backup to a network share, creating the disk image but erroring out. I was usually forced to first create the disk image, then have TM start the backup.

• If the network dropped out on the Mac backing up via TM, it would often force a full backup the next time around. This became a problem on a Fast Ethernet network with shared USB 1.0 drives.

• I got a lot of unable to complete TM backup errors. That usually resulted in having to recreate the backup and a full backup ensued - again.

• MOVING a TM backup is difficult. Finder says you can't move it because of permissions, etc. Sparseimages are easier to move, but TM makes sparsebundle images. Sparsebundles really do not like being moved, particularly if you're trying to move them while connected to the share they are on via SMB and not AFP (although both have problems). I can of course choose a new location to backup to with TM. Which at the time, on a Fast Ethernet network, meant another half day to full day time period for a full TM backup. If it completed and didn't error out somewhere in the middle.

By 2018 I have fully ditched TM and am using CCC to make backups. I also updated to a Gig-E network. In 2020, I am now primarily Intel but continue using CCC backups. At this point, most of them are going to an eSATA RAID drive shared by the B&W G3 (then my server). But by 2023 it's been retired and the 'server' is a 500mhz PowerMac G4 with two large internal SATA drives.

Late 2023 and I'm now using two NAS boxes, still with CCC.

It's now 2025 and because I've been using CCC for backups for quite a while, I can't speak to how TM functions on more modern Macs. The YOUNGEST Mac I have is a 2011 MBA. It's running High Sierra. But I've detailed my problems with TM in the past above.

So, if TM has gotten much better about things then I just have no current experience with it. All I have to go on is my past experience using the hardware I had at that time. It wasn't pleasant. Nor was it 'just plug it in' and 'set it up'.

 

[benwiggy]

I don't understand what the problem is. Why do you have "backup fatigue"? Why is it "wearing on you"?

It should be entirely automatic, whether you use TM, or rsync, Chronosync, Resilio Sync, or anything else. If CCC isn't doing automatic backups, then there are plenty of other tools.

However, I have three laptops backing up to a Synology NAS, using TM. I've also moved TM sparse images to new disks without issue.

You could probably solve all your problems by buying a new Mac Mini to replace those vintage Macs.

 

[GibberingRich]

Hi, I am responsible for multiple machines at home, and at office, like 8-10 different machines plus multiple iphones and an ipad. The syncing, the backing up, data management is wearing on me. I am not one who really wants to use cloud storage, nor do I use Time Machine. Typically I just buy hard drives and use SuperDuper to clone drives and make redundant backups but it seems like I am buying new and larger storage annually and no longer have the time for all this and it is getting disorganized and I am tired of constantly buying new and larger hard drives. What the hell is going to happen in 10-50 years when my kid wants to look at these photos? Or whatever. I don't understand data anymore and sick of backing up. Feels like I need to start over or something with a new method. Any advice?

There is one big problem with backing up locally and using something like Time Machine or a NAS. If your house gets broken into, catches fire or Backup drive breaks you have lost your security. At least using the cloud means it is held off-site and the supplier of the cloud is responsible for it's safe security.

 

[benwiggy]

At least using the cloud means it is held off-site and the supplier of the cloud is responsible for it's safe security.

Yes, though restoring an entire disk over the internet can be very slow. And cloud services are not without their outages. Both local and remote backups have their place; and both have advantages and disadvantages.

 

[kevcube]

if the majority of your Macs are 2011 or older

I appreciate your swagger but this is nearly nobody

 

[eyoungren]

I appreciate your swagger but this is nearly nobody

You're wrong.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

You're wrong.

As a guy with a lot of older Macs - this forum is an echo chamber.

 

[eyoungren]

As a guy with a lot of older Macs - this forum is an echo chamber.

Yes. It seems so.

Early Intel Macs

Core 2 Duo, Core Duo, Core Solo machines

forums.macrumors.com

PowerPC Macs

Power Mac, PowerBook, iMac Gx, iBook, etc...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[ankitgu]

I have a related question...

My understanding is Time Machine can backup to a NAS mounted via SMB.

Can I also restore from a Time Machine backup that is on a NAS? And does it matter if it's over the internet or if I'm on the local network?

The scenario I have wondered about is if something happens to my laptop while traveling, can I get a cheap one, restoring from my NAS at home?

As I sort this out, I plan to just setup a NAS and start using Time Machine.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

I have a related question...

My understanding is Time Machine can backup to a NAS mounted via SMB.

Can I also restore from a Time Machine backup that is on a NAS? And does it matter if it's over the internet or if I'm on the local network?

The scenario I have wondered about is if something happens to my laptop while traveling, can I get a cheap one, restoring from my NAS at home?

As I sort this out, I plan to just setup a NAS and start using Time Machine.

yeah, you can use a NAS, but I don't think you can over the internet, only locally.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I have a related question...

My understanding is Time Machine can backup to a NAS mounted via SMB.

Can I also restore from a Time Machine backup that is on a NAS? And does it matter if it's over the internet or if I'm on the local network?

The scenario I have wondered about is if something happens to my laptop while traveling, can I get a cheap one, restoring from my NAS at home?

As I sort this out, I plan to just setup a NAS and start using Time Machine.

This is all theoretical, but yes, probably. You would need to be able to VPN onto your home network from the mac, but because the mac doesn't have an OS it might not let you VPN in. You'd need a router that offers VPN while you're traveling, maybe like this Ubiquiti one, that takes care of the VPN - that way, the mac effectively thinks that it's on the same network as the time machine backup.

Of course, you'd also need fast enough internet both at home and away to make it work in a reasonable timeframe.

And then it still might not be worth it unless you're connecting to the VPN to backup every evening while traveling, too.

 

[ankitgu]

This is all theoretical, but yes, probably. You would need to be able to VPN onto your home network from the mac, but because the mac doesn't have an OS it might not let you VPN in. You'd need a router that offers VPN while you're traveling, maybe like this Ubiquiti one, that takes care of the VPN - that way, the mac effectively thinks that it's on the same network as the time machine backup.

Of course, you'd also need fast enough internet both at home and away to make it work in a reasonable timeframe.

And then it still might not be worth it unless you're connecting to the VPN to backup every evening while traveling, too.

Thanks - the lack of VPN was a concern and I'm def a fan of Ubiquiti gear, tempted to get their NAS actually. I've had Synology for a while and want something simpler.

I do hear you on how the VPN aspect is a requirement. I guess what I'd need to make it work, without a router that has built in VPN, is Apple to update Time Machine restoration in some way that fixes this? I may not be understanding it right, so could you let me know what change would make this doable without an intermediary device? (I am unlikely to carry a router with me for this purpose...)

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Thanks - the lack of VPN was a concern and I'm def a fan of Ubiquiti gear, tempted to get their NAS actually. I've had Synology for a while and want something simpler.

I do hear you on how the VPN aspect is a requirement. I guess what I'd need to make it work, without a router that has built in VPN, is Apple to update Time Machine restoration in some way that fixes this? I may not be understanding it right, so could you let me know what change would make this doable without an intermediary device? (I am unlikely to carry a router with me for this purpose...)

Let me preface this by saying, don’t do this. Don’t even think about doing it.

However.

You need to write down your external IP address, or better yet map it to a domain name using something like dyndns. Then you port-forward all of the relevant ports in your router to the time capsule. This effectively puts your NAS directly on the internet, without a firewall. Expect all of your information to be hacked (especially if it’s an older device) and anything you have stored to be exposed to the type of people who will exploit it. An especially evil person could even add files to your backup, so that when you restore, you restore with a virus. Like, really, don’t do this.

But then it’s just a matter of pointing your Time Machine restore to the IP address or URL instead of the NAS on your local network, and it will restore.